Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[GoofGoof]

Perhaps because "good enough" has a tendency to come back and bite you in the butt later.

Then by definition it wasn’t good enough

 

[Chi84]

I also predicted last Spring that Disney wouldn’t reopen the parks as long as masks were required

I seem to remember that . . .

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Then by definition it wasn’t good enough

Point being that what seems good enough at the time may not be in the future.

 

[GoofGoof]

I seem to remember that . . .

I cancelled my trip last Summer and if things continue on the track they are now by the time I go to WDW in August there won’t be any masks left so if I never saw it then it never happened

 

[sullyinMT]

Perhaps because "good enough" has a tendency to come back and bite you in the butt later.

Perhaps, but in the leading vaccine states (NM included with the Northeast and soon to be joined by CA and a bunch of others), if cases drop below that 3 threshold and stay there, when does the real concern dissipate? Not for individuals, but for public health officials? Perhaps in those states it drops even lower, say 1.5-2 cases/100k. Australia and NZ have been doing fairly well WITHOUT vaccines and packed rugby stadiums. They did a lot of other things right, no doubt. And international travel probably won’t come back without a vaccine rollout that can support it. But low cases, that can be traced and snuffed, is the goal. Driven by vaccines, tight restrictions, or some other policy, isn’t that the end goal?
Our butt is in a much better position than last summer to not be bitten too badly, as a nation.

 

[jlhwdw]

So we should all continue to practice mitigations that science says we don't need to because we don't know what will happen in a year?

 

[havoc315]

I agree for public places in general but work is completely different. I see no viable way to have a passport system where I have to show proof of vaccination to shop at Target. However, it’s very easy for an employer to ask an at-will employee to show proof of vaccination to be exempt from wearing a mask. That’s much easier to regulate and enforce. Since people spend the bulk of the time where they are exposed to people outside of their immediate families at work that’s where you get the most bang for your buck anyway. It’s a much greater incentive for someone to want to get vaccinated so they don’t have to wear a mask for 8+ hours a day at work then it is to get out of wearing a mask while shopping at the supermarket or Target.

Target not that hard.

My town farmers market, this weekend:
From 8:30-9am, it was masks mandatory for all.

Easy to do something similar for Target: have hours set aside solely for vaccinated shoppers.
During “mixed” hours, continue to have masks.

 

[Jrb1979]

So we should all continue to practice mitigations that science says we don't need to because we don't know what will happen in a year?

Yes let's keep wearing masks forever. .

That's not what most are saying. Most would have liked to see a higher percentage of vaccination before mitigations were dropped.

What my issue is is with the few who know have flip flopped their stance cause they know a 75% vaccination rate isn't likely so good enough is good enough.

 

[GoofGoof]

Point being that what seems good enough at the time may not be in the future.

In an ideal world we remove all restrictions at the exact moment they are no longer needed and not a minute later. That would be when things are “good enough”. I get your point that we may think things are good enough but they turn out not to be, but that is always the risk no matter which target you set. If cases drop below 3 per 100,000 now with the vaccination rate where it already is it would be difficult for a new wave to start up. Localized outbreaks are possible, but a national surge seems unlikely to me without a vaccine resistant variant.

 

[GoofGoof]

Target not that hard.

My town farmers market, this weekend:
From 8:30-9am, it was masks mandatory for all.

Easy to do something similar for Target: have hours set aside solely for vaccinated shoppers.
During “mixed” hours, continue to have masks.

How high risk for me is shopping at Target for 15 mins to an hour where I may casually pass a stranger. Maybe I spend 5 to 10 mins in line around others. Compare that to a Target associates who spends 8+ hours a day around their co-workers and some casual interaction with a whole lot more customers than I will interact with there. Huge bang for their buck in making employees show proof of vaccination to lose the mask and it’s a one and done check. Limited bang for the buck requiring customers to show proof and you would have to do it continuously since new people come and go every day.

 

[Chi84]

How high risk for me is shopping at Target for 15 mins to an hour where I may casually pass a stranger. Maybe I spend 5 to 10 mins in line around others. Compare that to a Target associates who spends 8+ hours a day around their co-workers and some casual interaction with a whole lot more customers than I will interact with there. Huge bang for their buck in making employees show proof of vaccination to lose the mask and it’s a one and done check. Limited bang for the buck requiring customers to show proof and you would have to do it continuously since new people come and go every day.

People struggle with that kind of risk assessment.

 

[havoc315]

How high risk for me is shopping at Target for 15 mins to an hour where I may casually pass a stranger. Maybe I spend 5 to 10 mins in line around others. Compare that to a Target associates who spends 8+ hours a day around their co-workers and some casual interaction with a whole lot more customers than I will interact with there. Huge bang for their buck in making employees show proof of vaccination to lose the mask and it’s a one and done check. Limited bang for the buck requiring customers to show proof and you would have to do it continuously since new people come and go every day.

I agree with you. I would prefer vaccine verification/passport for:
-workplaces
-travel
-large gatherings like concerts, theaters

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes let's keep wearing masks forever. .

That's not what most are saying. Most would have liked to see a higher percentage of vaccination before mitigations were dropped.

What my issue is is with the few who know have flip flopped their stance cause they know a 75% vaccination rate isn't likely so good enough is good enough.

How do we know 75% is the right number? Is it 75% with one shot or fully vaccinated? Is it 75% of adults or the total population? My state is planning to drop the remaining Covid restrictions when 70% of adults are fully vaccinated and I can almost guarantee we will hit and exceed 75% vaccinated so it’s not a target that was set because we couldn’t make it to 75%. Many other states have similar metrics they are using but none are probably exactly the same. The CDC hasn’t set a vaccination threshold formally yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they do at some point. The administration set a target of 70% of adults with one shot by July 4th but they haven’t committed to dropping all remaining CDC recommendations if we hit the target (although I think that‘s likely). I also don’t think it’s unlikely that the US hits 75% of adults vaccinated eventually.

 

[havoc315]

How do we know 75% is the right number? Is it 75% with one shot or fully vaccinated? Is it 75% of adults or the total population? My state is planning to drop the remaining Covid restrictions when 70% of adults are fully vaccinated and I can almost guarantee we will hit and exceed 75% vaccinated so it’s not a target that was set because we couldn’t make it to 75%. Many other states have similar metrics they are using but none are probably exactly the same. The CDC hasn’t set a vaccination threshold formally yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they do at some point. The administration set a target of 70% of adults with one shot by July 4th but they haven’t committed to dropping all remaining CDC recommendations if we hit the target (although I think that‘s likely). I also don’t think it’s unlikely that the US hits 75% of adults vaccinated eventually.

NY already effectively dropped it… it’s not following the CDC guidance. Meaning, it’s an honor code with unvaccinated supported to wear masks.

But I’m surprised at the level of mask wearing that continues. Most businesses are still requiring masks. My office dropped them. But In some areas, even outdoors, most people are masking. (And my county is currently 73% adults vaccinated).

Now, I’m obviously not checking vaccine cards. But for example… in my office, of the 14 of us that work in the office, I know 2 refuse to vaccinate. Those 2 are also the ones who stopped wearing a mask as soon as the rule changed. Most of the rest, are still wearing masks.

 

[DisneyFan32]

How do we know 75% is the right number? Is it 75% with one shot or fully vaccinated? Is it 75% of adults or the total population? My state is planning to drop the remaining Covid restrictions when 70% of adults are fully vaccinated and I can almost guarantee we will hit and exceed 75% vaccinated so it’s not a target that was set because we couldn’t make it to 75%. Many other states have similar metrics they are using but none are probably exactly the same. The CDC hasn’t set a vaccination threshold formally yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they do at some point. The administration set a target of 70% of adults with one shot by July 4th but they haven’t committed to dropping all remaining CDC recommendations if we hit the target (although I think that‘s likely). I also don’t think it’s unlikely that the US hits 75% of adults vaccinated eventually.

According to the plan: the most likely the US will hit 75% of adults vaccinated by late summer/early fall

 

[GoofGoof]

NY already effectively dropped it… it’s not following the CDC guidance. Meaning, it’s an honor code with unvaccinated supported to wear masks.

But I’m surprised at the level of mask wearing that continues. Most businesses are still requiring masks. My office dropped them. But In some areas, even outdoors, most people are masking. (And my county is currently 73% adults vaccinated).

Now, I’m obviously not checking vaccine cards. But for example… in my office, of the 14 of us that work in the office, I know 2 refuse to vaccinate. Those 2 are also the ones who stopped wearing a mask as soon as the rule changed. Most of the rest, are still wearing masks.

That’s too bad that NY dropped their mask mandate altogether and decided not to follow the CDC guidance. PA still has the mask mandate until we get to 70% of adults fully vaccinated. They have adopted the CDC guidance to allow fully vaccinated people to not have to mask up. Many states have no mask mandates anyway and haven’t for a while, it’s up to businesses and most are still following the CDC guidelines anyway.

 

[GoofGoof]

According to the plan: the most likely the US will hit 75% of adults vaccinated by late summer/early fall

I think 75% of adults with one dose by end of July or sometime in August is possible.

 

[havoc315]

That’s too bad that NY dropped their mask mandate altogether and decided not to follow the CDC guidance. PA still has the mask mandate until we get to 70% of adults fully vaccinated. They have adopted the CDC guidance to allow fully vaccinated people to not have to mask up. Many states have no mask mandates anyway and haven’t for a while, it’s up to businesses and most are still following the CDC guidelines anyway.

No… NY is following the CDC guidance. Unvaccinated people are required to wear masks — but outside of large gatherings, it’s an honor code. Sadly, that is the CDC guidance.

NY has gone a bit further in large gatherings: vaccine passports are basically required for large gatherings.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

No… NY is following the CDC guidance. Unvaccinated people are required to wear masks — but outside of large gatherings, it’s an honor code. Sadly, that is the CDC guidance.

NY has gone a bit further in large gatherings: vaccine passports are basically required for large gatherings.

For small gatherings too I believe. I was trying to buy tickets for a show in late June in nyc and vaccine card was required and they were still enforcing distancing within the show and they said you can only buy so many tickets per “pod” etc.

 

[Jrb1979]

For small gatherings too I believe. I was trying to buy tickets for a show in late June in nyc and vaccine card was required and they were still enforcing distancing within the show and they said you can only buy so many tickets per “pod” etc.

Thats the way it should be done everywhere. All large gatherings require proof of vaccination.