Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[MisterPenguin]

Vaccines Won’t Protect Millions of Patients With Weakened Immune Systems (Published 2021)

Many cannot produce enough infection-fighting cells to fend off the coronavirus. But researchers are testing one therapy that may help: monoclonal antibodies.

www.nytimes.com

 

[ImperfectPixie]

The "shut up and obey" attitude that you have constantly preached causes backlash which leads to the opposite of what you want. I'm fully vaccinated so it doesn't really matter what I do, but one of the main reasons I have opted out of face coverings when required by government mandate is because I know how angry it must make people like you.

WOW.

 

[havoc315]

Agreed. The drop off from the Jan highs was mostly just the normal 3 month arc of waves of this virus. We didn’t have enough people vaccinated to really move the needle back in Jan and Feb. That drop off stalled and we started to plateau and then cases moved upward again but that was driven primarily by a handful of large population states with a larger number of variants circulating. The hope is that vaccination rates are now having more of an impact since this recent spike was not as high and also much shorter than the typical 3 months. The bigger test is as we go forward will enough people be vaccinated to avoid a next wave from ever starting. I think we could still see regional outbreaks (especially in areas with lower vaccine uptake) but hopefully nationally the cases drop and then flatten out similar to Israel now.

Agreed..... In fact, if we actually can reach herd immunity -- Cases haven't flattened in Israel, they are actually STILL DECLINING.
They are close to eliminating community transmission. New cases will spring up just from border crossings, but to get a sense of the continued decline, Israel's 7-day averages:

4/6: 325
4/13: 202
4/20: 146
4/26: 127

By May, Israel may be safely under 100 cases per day. So it's "flattening" at darn close to 0. (In comparison, Israel is the same size at New Jersey.. NJ hasn't had numbers that low at any point during the pandemic.. yet). So for those saying we won't ever eliminate Covid, Israel is showing just how close to elimination you can get.

 

[Chi84]

I think the next step is to reduce distancing like the report suggests which gets you increased ride and park capacity. That’s a big win for Disney going into the crowded Summer. I assume Disney had knowledge of this study and results before it went public. Probably a big reason they increased park reservation availability in May/June/July. I think if they make this change there is a pause and they look at the impact before continuing to relax restrictions. If the CDC does relax outdoor mask requirements for fully vaccinated people soon I don’t think that triggers an immediate change at WDW. The distancing change gets them more bang for their buck. Then once we hit a metric like 50%+ of the population vaccinated they will probably apply the outdoor mask rule too. It’s hard to enforce, but I think will happen at some point early Summer, before July 4th week. Cases have to drop down a lot more (somewhere below 5 per 100,000) to see a relaxing of masks indoors and that’s when dining returns to full capacity without the need for 6 foot spacing. Hopefully that’s also this Summer.

I read that the CDC is considering a report that only 5 to 10% of COVID infections come from outdoor transmission. A large and ever-growing number of Americans have been vaccinated. Dr. Fauci said that the risk of outdoor transmission is very, very low and virtually nonexistent for vaccinated people. If Disney decides to keep an outdoor mask requirement much longer, I think they are going to have a heck of a time enforcing it, especially if they also increase capacity. I think they would have greater mask compliance overall if they would change the rules to require outdoor masks only when in queues. If you continue to force people to do things that are proven to have little or no effect, there's a much greater chance they'll just ignore all the rules. They're in a tough position, especially if other theme parks relax mask rules to a greater extent.

 

[Parker in NYC]

The "shut up and obey" attitude that you have constantly preached causes backlash which leads to the opposite of what you want. I'm fully vaccinated so it doesn't really matter what I do, but one of the main reasons I have opted out of face coverings when required by government mandate is because I know how angry it must make people like you.

Let’s make people angry. I’m always baffled by this. Thanks for letting us know.

 

[Figgy1]

The "shut up and obey" attitude that you have constantly preached causes backlash which leads to the opposite of what you want. I'm fully vaccinated so it doesn't really matter what I do, but one of the main reasons I have opted out of face coverings when required by government mandate is because I know how angry it must make people like you.

I believe the message has always been keep yourself and others safe

 

[DisneyCane]

Why do you care about making internet strangers angry? How does that even rank in a person's decision making?

I said people LIKE @Sirwalterraleigh , not in particular.

Let’s make people angry. I’m always baffled by this. Thanks for letting us know.

People who continue to try and perpetuate the situation beyond the point where everybody who wishes to be vaccinated has the opportunity to do so make me angry so it makes me feel better to make them angry. I'm not harming anybody and I got vaccinated the second I had the opportunity to do so meaning I did my part.

I believe the message has always been keep yourself and others safe

No, the message from @Sirwalterraleigh directed at me has always been you aren't very intelligent so listen to what me and the other smart people say because we know what is best for everybody.

I don't need to be told to keep myself safe. I'm able to assess the risk I'm willing to take. I knew I was taking some level of risk doing things that I've chosen to do over the past year before I was vaccinated. However, I determined that living my life was worth the risk I was taking.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I said people LIKE @Sirwalterraleigh , not in particular.

People who continue to try and perpetuate the situation beyond the point where everybody who wishes to be vaccinated has the opportunity to do so make me angry so it makes me feel better to make them angry. I'm not harming anybody and I got vaccinated the second I had the opportunity to do so meaning I did my part.

No, the message from @Sirwalterraleigh directed at me has always been you aren't very intelligent so listen to what me and the other smart people say because we know what is best for everybody.

I don't need to be told to keep myself safe. I'm able to assess the risk I'm willing to take. I knew I was taking some level of risk doing things that I've chosen to do over the past year before I was vaccinated. However, I determined that living my life was worth the risk I was taking.

oh let me clear this up...

my message is you can’t judge when “information” comes from respectable/scrupled sources...

and you’ve switched your stance as much as the wind blows and the bogus arguments have fallen to dust in sequence...moving on the unending next link in the chain of nonsense.

and preached hoax theory so thinly veiled it’s Saran Wrap...

and still at it. Trying to “win” against strangers that aren’t paying much attention due to this year long pattern.

but to be fair...you might be more reasonable now...but my memory is stubborn so I don’t give too many passes.

people change their mind...people make mistakes...the dude in my mirror certainly does...

...but ya just messing if you’re trying to “twist out of it” for this long.

(I don’t typically do this direct approach...but the double call out is just looking to start anonymous animus.)

 

[ImperfectPixie]

that’s great...I didn’t give you a thought from a personal perspective...

...just tired of watching people suggest this is a personal Liberty issue. It’s not. There are very few legitimate exceptions.

1. people are free to make choices...if they are intelligent ones.
2. If they can’t...which is going to be the dominant story movie forward...then they should listen to recommendations from more intelligent advisors.
3. If they can’t do either of these...then shut up (frankly)...and don’t spread it around to influence others.

I make things so easy...yet get so much blowback.

Part of the problem (as we've seen) is that some choose to put their faith in fools.

 

[mmascari]

If the CDC does relax outdoor mask requirements for fully vaccinated people soon I don’t think that triggers an immediate change at WDW. The distancing change gets them more bang for their buck.

I read that the CDC is considering a report that only 5 to 10% of COVID infections come from outdoor transmission. A large and ever-growing number of Americans have been vaccinated. Dr. Fauci said that the risk of outdoor transmission is very, very low and virtually nonexistent for vaccinated people. If Disney decides to keep an outdoor mask requirement much longer, I think they are going to have a heck of a time enforcing it, especially if they also increase capacity. I think they would have greater mask compliance overall if they would change the rules to require outdoor masks only when in queues.

Much like the school report on reduced distance included lots of nuance, I'm expecting an Outdoor announcement to also contain a bunch of nuance. They're probably going to define very specifically what "Outdoors" means. It's likely not the same as all the individual thoughts here, which probably no two are the same here either.

We probably all agree on some obvious ones, like walking the dog in the neighborhood. But there's a continuum between that and actually being inside, not just a hard line like walking in your front door. I'll expect that an announcement will include nuance around that continuum. It will probably error on the side of caution earlier in the transition than some would like, for things that some think of as still being outdoors but that have a different risk profile than walking the dog.

 

[corsairk09]

that’s great...I didn’t give you a thought from a personal perspective...

...just tired of watching people suggest this is a personal Liberty issue. It’s not. There are very few legitimate exceptions.

1. people are free to make choices...if they are intelligent ones.
2. If they can’t...which is going to be the dominant story movie forward...then they should listen to recommendations from more intelligent advisors.
3. If they can’t do either of these...then shut up (frankly)...and don’t spread it around to influence others.

I make things so easy...yet get so much blowback.

Yeah..... your first point is problematic. People are free to make choices as long as they don't infringe on others. That's not an opinion, all laws are based on that principal.

You say "if they are intelligent" choices. Who decides if they are intelligent or not? You? Me? And before you say "science"........ there were tons of people who noticed months ago that wearing masks outside was illogical.... and people yelled and called them unintelligent covid deniers. Now science has caught up with logic. So that isn't an option.

So who then?

 

[Disney Analyst]

Sometimes you are reminded that adults are often far more childish then children.

Wow.

 

[jlhwdw]

I believe the message has always been keep yourself and others safe

Isn't the vaccination the ultimate way to keep myself and others safe? Sort of like "putting a ring on it" when it comes to COVID mitigation?

As the weeks and months go on, telling fully vaccinated individuals they still need to wear a mask at all times, distance from others, and not participate in life as fully as they wish is going to really cause some problems.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah..... your first point is problematic. People are free to make choices as long as they don't infringe on others. That's not an opinion, all laws are based on that principal.

You say "if they are intelligent" choices. Who decides if they are intelligent or not? You? Me? And before you say "science"........ there were tons of people who noticed months ago that wearing masks outside was illogical.... and people yelled and called them unintelligent covid deniers. Now science has caught up with logic. So that isn't an option.

So who then?

we have a long history of:

1. allowing people to do what they want
2. Smacking them down if they don’t make the intelligent choice.

the problem is that in the digital media world...people want to believe they don’t go hand in hand.

it’s a package deal. It always has and Should be.

james Madison wasn’t a public health specialist...and I wouldn’t presume to believe he wouldn’t adjust his approach for some things if he were alive today. I won’t make someone a zealot or fool based on the times they lived in.

but I know when I see one in 2021

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sometimes you are reminded that adults are often far more childish then children.

Wow.

im often reminded on this particular thread that the reason the Wechsler has numbers is because it’s a scale and people don’t all “deserve” the same score.

 

[Chomama]

Well someone just said the quiet part out loud. Making any decision just to anger others is childish beyond measure. It is also part of why people are refusing vaccines. Read a study today - there are people who enjoy the drama so much they are refusing a vaccine just to upset others”. I truly can’t believe this is a way adults make decisions.

 

[GimpYancIent]

Vaccine passports are the answer then.

NO! Just an opinion.

 

[havoc315]

I read that the CDC is considering a report that only 5 to 10% of COVID infections come from outdoor transmission. A large and ever-growing number of Americans have been vaccinated. Dr. Fauci said that the risk of outdoor transmission is very, very low and virtually nonexistent for vaccinated people. If Disney decides to keep an outdoor mask requirement much longer, I think they are going to have a heck of a time enforcing it, especially if they also increase capacity. I think they would have greater mask compliance overall if they would change the rules to require outdoor masks only when in queues. If you continue to force people to do things that are proven to have little or no effect, there's a much greater chance they'll just ignore all the rules. They're in a tough position, especially if other theme parks relax mask rules to a greater extent.

I am confident the outdoor mask requirement will be eliminated at Disney very soon. I was originally thinking it would be gone by June/July... Now I'm thinking it will be eliminated even sooner.

No idea when indoor masking will be eliminated. While I can imagine it sticking around through October, I also wouldn't be shocked to see it eliminated in most, if not all, settings by June/July. It may turn on the case counts, but if we are under 5,000-10,000 cases per day, all mandatory masking may disappear quickly.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Well someone just said the quiet part out loud. Making any decision just to anger others is childish beyond measure. It is also part of why people are refusing vaccines. Read a study today - there are people who enjoy the drama so much they are refusing a vaccine just to upset others”. I truly can’t believe this is a way adults make decisions.

To paraphrase Carrie Fisher, resentment is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die.

 

[Jrb1979]

NO! Just an opinion.

I think many are going to be in for a shock when businesses start asking for proof of being vaccinated for entry. The Buffalo Bills are requiring it for next season. That's after the June optimism of herd immunity.