Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[HarperRose]

That is why I 100% support vaccine passports. You don't want to get vaccinated, fine, but you will be unwelcome anywhere that isn't your local grocery store or bar.

You want to do activities that involve putting other people potentially at risk? Ooops, sorry, you aren't allowed to enter.

 

[Jrb1979]

I got a tiny issue with #4

I don't. All that AstraZeneca the US is just sitting there why not donate it to other countries if you aren't going to use it.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Here's an anecdote.

One of the nurses who works in our clinic contracted COVID-19. She follows the same protocols as everyone else, and does not know how she contracted it. Unfortunately, she was initially hesitant to take the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines offered by the hospital to all employees, so she only received one dose before she became ill.

She's back to work now and feeling fine, but she reports that her bout of COVID was just about the worst illness she ever experienced. Severe headaches, muscle and joint pain, and nausea and vomiting so bad that she needed two trips to the ER for IV hydration. Fortunately, her breathing held up, so she did not need a hospital admission. Even after most of her other symptoms resolved, she was so fatigued that she could barely get out of bed for several days. B.1.1.7 is now the dominant strain locally, so even though her sample never underwent genotype screening, this is likely the one that caused her infection.

This nurse is generally in good health. Late 30s, healthy body mass index, and takes only a low dose of one medication to control blood pressure. But COVID still knocked her out for about 2 weeks, and she came within a hair of needing a hospital stay. Now fortunately, she was covered by the hospital's COVID policy that offers full medical leave for any employee that contracts the disease. If she had not been lucky to work as a nurse for a hospital with a generous sick leave policy, though, she would have missed about 2.5 weeks of salary and received two large ER bills to boot.

The take-aways from this case that we can generalize (because they fit with the larger trends):

1) This is not last year's COVID. The new variants are both much more contagious and making younger people quite a bit sicker than the wild type.

2) Despite a case of COVID-19 managing to breech the defenses of our clinic, nobody else became ill. Why? We can never be 100% sure, but most likely because all but two other staff members have been fully vaccinated since March, at the latest, and some of us much earlier. Not only did none of the other staff become ill, but none of our unvaccinated family members got sick either. These vaccines are extremely powerful tools against the virus. This is what herd immunity looks like on a personal level.

3) Even a case of COVID from which the patient completely recovers and does not require hospitalization can cause them to go through hell that they would never want to repeat or wish on anyone.

Get vaccinated!

 

[lazyboy97o]

Take out educated and willing to accept science and replace with healthy individuals and you're probably right.

Regular Exercise May Help Protect Against Severe Covid (Published 2021)

People who tended to be sedentary were far more likely to be hospitalized, and to die, from Covid than those who exercised regularly.

www.nytimes.com

Does this mean there will be an actual serious desire to address large structural issues that increasingly make exercise a luxury?

 

[Touchdown]

I don't. All that AstraZeneca the US is just sitting there why not donate it to other countries if you aren't going to use it.

Yup it’s not doing any good in storage, besides by setting up a ticking clock (which if need be can be rewound) you are using a powerful psychological constuct people have (fear of missing out) to influence your citizens.

 

[havoc315]

While vaccinations have been strong in the US up to now, I fear it will be slowing down. To keep up a good pace, we had to keep lowering the age.
The UK is still focusing just on 50+...

Their adoptions rates:

% who have had at least 1 dose (using ONS denominators)
50+	50-54	55-59	60-64	65-69	70-74	75-79	80+
94.8%	88.2%	94.4%	97.4%	94.0%	97.0%	100%*	95.2%

So far in the US, are at 81% of seniors. At this point, almost every senior who wanted a vaccine got it... very few seniors are still getting their first dose on a daily basis.

So UK has 94.8% of 50+ with at least 1 dose. US, 81% of those over 65.
To get a sense of how the rate is stalling among seniors, first shot was at 79% 1 week ago. 75.2% 2 weeks ago..
So 4/5-4/12... a 4 point increase. 4/12-4/19, only a 2 point increase. And continuing to slow down. Maybe we will top out at about 85% of seniors vaccinated.

Now, it wouldn't be a problem if we hit 85% across ALL age groups. Israel, for example, is at 80% of all adults getting vaccinated. But with seniors most at risk, they are also the group most likely to get vaccinated. Younger age groups are likely to have lower vaccination rates.
Is the US is 10-15 points behind the UK among seniors, then I'd expect the US to remain 10-15 points behind the UK for other age groups moving forward.

Lesson being -- get vaccinated, tell everyone you know to get vaccinated.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Yup it’s not doing any good in storage, besides by setting up a ticking clock (which if need be can be rewound) you are using a powerful psychological constuct people have (fear of missing out) to influence your citizens.

I forget which year exactly is was, but in the recent past, there we had an initial shortage of seasonal flu vaccines in the US. I never saw so many people lined up to get their annual shot!

 

[disneygeek90]

Of all the mitigation to be annoyed at, I’m a little surprised to see plexiglass pretty high up on lists. In my opinion, for better or our worse it’s likely something that may wind up sticking around years longer then anything else.

The store around the corner that hurriedly slapped up some plexiglass around the cash register? Let’s be honest that’s still going to be there in 10 years just because no one is going to care enough to take it down. Similar installations at my doctors office or pharmacy? Probably going to stay up with intent and become a part of new healthcare construction / design from the get-go because it makes sense in environments where you naturally come in contact with sick people.

The dividers on the RotR ride vehicles or in the queue lines? Well, from a theme and show point of view I sure hope they intend to pull them down at some point, but I can also imagine a future where they’re like the sneeze guards on a buffet... omnipresent, accepted as such, and actively designed into future construction as a new ‘best practice’. Even if they don’t it will likely take until the next major refurb cycle to get rid of many of these installs.

It doesn't bother me much in stores or queues. It definitely bothers me in rides.

 

[LaughingGravy]

What has been debunked from the NYT article I posted?

This paragraph that's 3rd from the bottom in the article basically indicates how useless this study was. Perhaps it's technically not "debunked", but still pretty much useless.

"Of course, this study, because it was observational, does not prove that exercise causes severe Covid risks to drop, but only that people who often exercise also are people with low risks of falling gravely ill. The study also did not delve into whether exercise reduces the risk of becoming infected with coronavirus in the first place."

 

[ImperfectPixie]

This paragraph that's 3rd from the bottom in the article basically indicates how useless this study was. Perhaps it's technically not "debunked", but still pretty much useless.

"Of course, this study, because it was observational, does not prove that exercise causes severe Covid risks to drop, but only that people who often exercise also are people with low risks of falling gravely ill. The study also did not delve into whether exercise reduces the risk of becoming infected with coronavirus in the first place."

Honestly, I was surprised that was published by the Times. They're usually pretty good about publishing reliable information about COVID.

 

[Heppenheimer]

This paragraph that's 3rd from the bottom in the article basically indicates how useless this study was. Perhaps it's technically not "debunked", but still pretty much useless.

"Of course, this study, because it was observational, does not prove that exercise causes severe Covid risks to drop, but only that people who often exercise also are people with low risks of falling gravely ill. The study also did not delve into whether exercise reduces the risk of becoming infected with coronavirus in the first place."

Regular exercise is a very powerful risk reduction tool for all kinds of disease, but it isn't an absolute panacea.

Also, people who exercise regularly tend to be a little more careful about limiting other risk factors, particularly smoking.

 

[DCBaker]

Missed this yesterday -

"Speaking to CBS News’ Face The Nation on Sunday, French President Emmanuel Macron said travel restrictions for vaccinated Americans wanting to come to France will be “progressively” lifted from the beginning of May. This should come as good news for industry professionals hoping to attend the Cannes Film Festival which is currently scheduled to run July 6-17. Cannes just this morning announced its opening night film, further indication that organizers are hopeful the event will take place as planned."

Macron told Face The Nation’s Margaret Brennan that the summer season will be organized with “our professionals in France for French and European citizens, but as well for American citizens,” and added he wanted to provide “the best possible summer with the opportunity for your citizens to come to our country because this is something we are very proud (of).”

He further noted, “We are working hard to propose a very concrete solution, especially for U.S. citizens who are vaccinated,” and “with a special pass.”

There are ongoing discussions with the American authorities as to how this would play out. Macron explained, “We are building a European certificate to facilitate the travels after these restrictions between the different European countries with testing and vaccination. And the idea indeed is altogether to offer that to the American citizen.”

France: Travel Restrictions For Americans To Be “Progressively” Lifted Starting Early May, Says President Emmanuel Macron

Speaking to CBS News’ Face The Nation on Sunday, French President Emmanuel Macron said travel restrictions for vaccinated Americans wanting to come to France will be “progressively” lifted from the beginning of May. This should come as good news for industry professionals hoping to attend the...

deadline.com

 

[Jrb1979]

Missed this yesterday -

"Speaking to CBS News’ Face The Nation on Sunday, French President Emmanuel Macron said travel restrictions for vaccinated Americans wanting to come to France will be “progressively” lifted from the beginning of May. This should come as good news for industry professionals hoping to attend the Cannes Film Festival which is currently scheduled to run July 6-17. Cannes just this morning announced its opening night film, further indication that organizers are hopeful the event will take place as planned."

Macron told Face The Nation’s Margaret Brennan that the summer season will be organized with “our professionals in France for French and European citizens, but as well for American citizens,” and added he wanted to provide “the best possible summer with the opportunity for your citizens to come to our country because this is something we are very proud (of).”

He further noted, “We are working hard to propose a very concrete solution, especially for U.S. citizens who are vaccinated,” and “with a special pass.”

There are ongoing discussions with the American authorities as to how this would play out. Macron explained, “We are building a European certificate to facilitate the travels after these restrictions between the different European countries with testing and vaccination. And the idea indeed is altogether to offer that to the American citizen.”

France: Travel Restrictions For Americans To Be “Progressively” Lifted Starting Early May, Says President Emmanuel Macron

Speaking to CBS News’ Face The Nation on Sunday, French President Emmanuel Macron said travel restrictions for vaccinated Americans wanting to come to France will be “progressively” lifted from the beginning of May. This should come as good news for industry professionals hoping to attend the...

deadline.com

The beginning of vaccine passports for travel. I don't think it will be temporary.

 

[HarperRose]

A bit off-topic, but tied to increasing costs ~ the light-saber building experience at Savi's Workshop in DHS has increased by $20 and will now be priced at $220 per person, effectively immediately.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Missed this yesterday -

"Speaking to CBS News’ Face The Nation on Sunday, French President Emmanuel Macron said travel restrictions for vaccinated Americans wanting to come to France will be “progressively” lifted from the beginning of May. This should come as good news for industry professionals hoping to attend the Cannes Film Festival which is currently scheduled to run July 6-17. Cannes just this morning announced its opening night film, further indication that organizers are hopeful the event will take place as planned."

Macron told Face The Nation’s Margaret Brennan that the summer season will be organized with “our professionals in France for French and European citizens, but as well for American citizens,” and added he wanted to provide “the best possible summer with the opportunity for your citizens to come to our country because this is something we are very proud (of).”

He further noted, “We are working hard to propose a very concrete solution, especially for U.S. citizens who are vaccinated,” and “with a special pass.”

There are ongoing discussions with the American authorities as to how this would play out. Macron explained, “We are building a European certificate to facilitate the travels after these restrictions between the different European countries with testing and vaccination. And the idea indeed is altogether to offer that to the American citizen.”

France: Travel Restrictions For Americans To Be “Progressively” Lifted Starting Early May, Says President Emmanuel Macron

Speaking to CBS News’ Face The Nation on Sunday, French President Emmanuel Macron said travel restrictions for vaccinated Americans wanting to come to France will be “progressively” lifted from the beginning of May. This should come as good news for industry professionals hoping to attend the...

deadline.com

I kind of suspected that Europe would take the lead on this while we were bogged down in political inertia (read, "mah freedom!"). I just hope their system has enough flexibility to include us, since we're not exactly taking the initiative here (despite, you know, supposedly being a world leader...grumble, grumble...). I'm glad that Macron is at least thinking of us.

On another notes, if we can read into his comments, it would appear that they plan to hold the Tour de France as planned. I can go a few years without Disney parks, but not a year without Le Tour!

 

[mmascari]

So there are locations where you have to mobile order even if you don’t have a smart phone?

Aren't there other things, like Fast Pass (when it was still being used) that also required a smart phone?

Oh I agree. Being able to see the different gf options right on the app is great. I like mobile order, but I also know that some people don’t have smart phones still!

Are there still people where nobody in the party has a smartphone?

I get that an individual might not, but not a single smart phone in an entire party? I guess if that individual is at the park alone....

 

[HarperRose]

Aren't there other things, like Fast Pass (when it was still being used) that also required a smart phone?


Are there still people where nobody in the party has a smartphone?

I get that an individual might not, but not a single smart phone in an entire party? I guess if that individual is at the park alone....

There were kiosks you could use around each park to book or change fastpasses.

 

[Parker in NYC]

A bit off-topic, but tied to increasing costs ~ the light-saber building experience at Savi's Workshop in DHS has increased by $20 and will now be priced at $220 per person, effectively immediately.

Folks will pay anything for plastic wands and swords.

 

[SamusAranX]

Wrong.

One would think being fit and healthy improves your chances with any disease...and that's where COVID surprised us. Even extremely fit and healthy people with no underlying diseases/medical conditions have succumbed to COVID.

Educated and willing to accept science is one of the keys to coming out of this.

Not exactly. You’re stating the exception to the rule. Yes, you can die from covid. But statistically speaking you’re less likely to as a younger and fit adult.

 

[LaughingGravy]

Re: the anecdotal nurse story..
"One of the nurses who works in our clinic contracted COVID-19. She follows the same protocols as everyone else, and does not know how she contracted it. Unfortunately, she was initially hesitant to take the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines offered by the hospital to all employees, so she only received one dose before she became ill."

A huge take away here is that she followed protocols and still contracted it, even after the first dose.
Following protocols is not a guarantee any more than wearing a seat belt in a car with airbags, cameras/auto brake/stop, etc. will prevent serious injury in a car crash, but you know, we do it anyway because it reduces the odds.
The only way to practically eliminate the risk of serious injury from a car accident is to not ever be in a car or near one.

The nurse contracted it because she was exposed and it got in. It's not a matter of needing to know how. She's on the front lines at a clinic. It's no mystery. It could be an asymptomatic carrier. It could be another like her who only got one shot. It could be from someone with both shots, but not 2 weeks later immunized, or even yes, from someone with both shots and fully immunized. There's not a guarantee with any of this.

Yet some might see this as she did everything she could, got vaccinated, still caught it, got sick and survived, just like a flu, so why are their "liberties" being curtailed. That's sad and scary. All the more reason for pressures of many kinds to be imposed to get people vaccinated, whether they be vaccine passports, discussions with the reluctant, and yes, I still maintain the idea of a reduction in insurance coverage for those that refuse any vaccine if allowed to get it( yes, barring documented medical reasons, but not "beliefs") That's a pressure that hits the pocketbook, sometimes the only one people can accept.

Just pulling up Wisconsin as an example re: insurance companies reducing coverage re: seatbelts...
Wisconsin law requires drivers and passengers to wear seatbelts. Not wearing a seatbelt can affect how much money you recover from an insurance company for damages and injuries sustained in an accident. Wisconsin's law requiring safety belt use allows a damage claim to be reduced by as much as 15 percent for parties not wearing safety belts, according to Brent Smith, a Johns, Flaherty & Collins attorney.
This is a global pandemic in which a lot of things were put on hold for good reason and a lot of restrictions were enacted with penalties for non-compliance for the public good. It's not unreasonable to think other restrictions or compliance requirements be added with penalties of one kind or another, such as the right for businesses to refuse service to those without a vaccine passport.


I am amazed at the reports of people only getting the first dose of the two dose vaccines. Referring to those who voluntarily refuse the second dose, what are they thinking?