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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
DeSantis isn’t doing anything right, unless he controls the weather.

First, the main reason for drop-off everywhere is the holiday spike has run its course.

I presume the vaccine is helping a bit also.

But the advantage Florida has, regardless of Governor, is being largely able to avoid the winter temperatures faced by most other states. Those temps push people indoors with less ventilation, encouraging spread.

Florida is still able to offer routine outdoor dining, outdoor activities, and businesses can leave doors or windows open for extra ventilation.

DeSantis isn’t even trying to prevent deaths; he gets no credit.

Political aspects aside, since I don't care....your "winter" theory doesn't explain why Florida is doing "better" then New York or Jersey at the current moment. California is a great weather state, except northern, with mild winters for much of it, and they were getting hammered, especially LA. Not exactly the bastion of negative wind chill.

For whatever reason, Florida is doing a bit better. I won't venture to say as to why; maybe more voluntary self compliance; maybe more masking. Maybe, taking into account estimates of the actual amount who had the virus asymptomatically, the virus is running a bit out of steam; not reaching herd immunity or something crazy like that, but just slowing down.
 

Lands of Wonder

Well-Known Member
I believe the "they" refers to the democrats, who did not agree with the travel ban for Muslim countries at the beginning of his presidency, therefore it's hypocritical to those on the right that travel bans would be considered by the democratic president in our own country.

*Note: Not taking his side, merely explaining.
Not at all what I’m talking about, my issue is the government as whole, not just one party. The travel ban last year around this time was highly criticized. The Muslim travel ban I know nothing about nor can I condone or condemn nor am I aware of this. This very moment, domestic travel and choking the economy has me paranoid.
 

monothingie

I once was a ferret for a day.
Premium Member
Controlled “leaks” used as trial balloons are pretty brilliant. He should go into politics.
So California's 2 week average in cases are down 48%, and Florida's down 23% as well. Explain to me why we like to relish in the negative, can we not just enjoy this very small, but good news for a few days? :)
Easier to make people compliant.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
So California's 2 week average in cases are down 48%, and Florida's down 23% as well. Explain to me why we like to relish in the negative, can we not just enjoy this very small, but good news for a few days? :)
In all the back and forth over FL travel restrictions the really good news that came out was the CDC saying people who are fully vaccinated don’t need to quarantine if they have contact with a Covid positive person and show no symptoms. This is the first real Covid mitigation step to be relaxed as the result of vaccines. Progress towards an eventual return to normal. If you read between the lines it could also be a potential out for other restrictions going forward. For example if the CDC does recommend people get a negative Covid test before flying (discussed recently) they could make an exception if you are vaccinated.
 

monothingie

I once was a ferret for a day.
Premium Member
It’s been pretty well established now that the new variant in CA is at least partially responsible for the spike in cases. More contagious variant similar to the UK variant but not the same. I think some people are starting to fear that happens in FL too if the UK variant becomes the primary strain circulating.
Wasn't that the impetus for the Florida Travel Ban trial balloon, that the UK variant exploded/is exploding in Florida already?
 

monothingie

I once was a ferret for a day.
Premium Member
For example if the CDC does recommend people get a negative Covid test before flying (discussed recently) they could make an exception if you are vaccinated.

Can you treat people differently by denying them products/services for those who've not been vaccinated versus those without the virus who've tested negative or not tested at all versus those who've been vaccinated?
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Political aspects aside, since I don't care....your "winter" theory doesn't explain why Florida is doing "better" then New York or Jersey at the current moment. California is a great weather state, except northern, with mild winters for much of it, and they were getting hammered, especially LA. Not exactly the bastion of negative wind chill.

For whatever reason, Florida is doing a bit better. I won't venture to say as to why; maybe more voluntary self compliance; maybe more masking. Maybe, taking into account estimates of the actual amount who had the virus asymptomatically, the virus is running a bit out of steam; not reaching herd immunity or something crazy like that, but just slowing down.
Wasn’t the theory that NY and NJ are cold weather states so people are forced indoors more in the winter which is right now. Based on that shouldn‘t FL be doing a whole lot better than NY/NJ? The numbers in FL are better but not by a whole lot. Daily average of last 7 days per 100K people:

NY 44
NJ 43
FL 36
CA 30
HI 5 (Not relevant to discussion, just the best state overall right now)

Based on those numbers it looks like colder weather NE is still suffering from winter pushing people indoors. Warmer weather FL and CA are doing better. CA doing better than FL...maybe due to mitigation efforts and the impact of recent pull backs in activity.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Wasn't that the impetus for the Florida Travel Ban trial balloon, that the UK variant exploded/is exploding in Florida already?
Yes. The rumor wasn’t specific to FL. It mentioned both FL and CA as potential places with a higher level of variant.

Can you treat people differently by denying them products/services for those who've not been vaccinated versus those without the virus who've tested negative or not tested at all versus those who've been vaccinated?
If the government requires a negative Covid test to fly domestically then I see no reason why they couldn’t make an exemption for anyone who was vaccinated. The only practical way to do this would be to setup rapid test sites at the airports. Then when you show up you either show proof of vaccination or proof of a negative test to get through security. Nobody is being denied a product or service. You can get the vaccine and fly no issue. If you choose not to get the vaccine you get tested and you still can fly. The only person denied would be someone who tested positive (who shouldn’t be flying) or someone who refuses to get tested.

I don’t think it will actually come to that point yet, but could get there this summer if cases aren’t low enough but the majority of people are vaccinated. Hopefully we get to 80%+ vaccinated and it’s all just an academic debate.
 

monothingie

I once was a ferret for a day.
Premium Member
The only practical way to do this would be to setup rapid test sites at the airports.
Which of course is the rub. There aren't the resources to get this done and provide equitable access to all those needing the services, which is why in airport testing will never happen, because it would be an impossible mandate to fulfill without devastating the entire system. Of course with the travel ban trial balloon, putting aside the blatant constitutional issues, you would need to establish a standardized objective metric or criteria for placing a state on or off a travel ban. Simply picking Florida saying Florida is a no go while allowing New York and California which have worse stats would not fly in any court.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Let me get this straight Biden wants to prevent American citizen from traveling to Florida yet he wants the southern boarder open to a flood of illegals who you have no idea what their medical status is. I have to ask who does this guy work for surely not us?
Your info is wrong. So, you can calm down now and stop asking questions based on false premises.
 

sullivan.kscott

Well-Known Member
Can you treat people differently by denying them products/services for those who've not been vaccinated versus those without the virus who've tested negative or not tested at all versus those who've been vaccinated?
This wouldn't be denying service, however. Either test/quarantine, or be within time parameters for being fully vaccinated.

This, coupled with the anticipated April timeline laid out by Dr. Fauci and a few state outlets, means adults 16+ could be vaccinated for their summer travel plans without additional testing or requirements. There won't be a vaccine = mask free transport or similar until transmission and community spread warrant.

As I and others have assumed, the three month timeline for the exemption is likely to be extended as data permits. Also, kids 12+ may be cleared for vaccination by May or thereabouts. If all of this pans out to be true, August before schools go back could be a real mess of people "waiting it out" to take vacations with their adolescents.
 

SamusAranX

Well-Known Member
Wasn’t the theory that NY and NJ are cold weather states so people are forced indoors more in the winter which is right now. Based on that shouldn‘t FL be doing a whole lot better than NY/NJ? The numbers in FL are better but not by a whole lot. Daily average of last 7 days per 100K people:

NY 44
NJ 43
FL 36
CA 30
HI 5 (Not relevant to discussion, just the best state overall right now)

Based on those numbers it looks like colder weather NE is still suffering from winter pushing people indoors. Warmer weather FL and CA are doing better. CA doing better than FL...maybe due to mitigation efforts and the impact of recent pull backs in activity.

My point was CA up until this past week or so (which you quoted) was doing worse then FL and approaching April New york proportions, yet had the same "advantage" as Florida; warm weather. I'm not exonerating Florida as a whole, I think for example, the Super Bowl having 18k unvaccinated attendees, having a big boat parade to celebrate, and the pregame experiences near congested downtown, were dumb ideas. If anything, I am trying to say it puzzles me why Florida didn't surge as bad as Cali or NY/NJ for that matter did despite looser restrictions and more idiotic behavior. If that SB was in Cali, they probably would have only allowed the 7500 vaccinated workers, if at all.

It's getting better for Cali now (past 7 days). It's before then that things seemed out of wack
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
Which of course is the rub. There aren't the resources to get this done and provide equitable access to all those needing the services, which is why in airport testing will never happen, because it would be an impossible mandate to fulfill without devastating the entire system. Of course with the travel ban trial balloon, putting aside the blatant constitutional issues, you would need to establish a standardized objective metric or criteria for placing a state on or off a travel ban. Simply picking Florida saying Florida is a no go while allowing New York and California which have worse stats would not fly in any court.
There is some talk of requiring tests for a domestic flight. Whether that happens or not is still up in the air. If it does happen it won’t be tomorrow. There is time to setup the systems. I don’t know of anywhere right now that you can’t get a Covid test pretty much on the spot. The only issue is the timing of the results. The rapid test results come back pretty fast. It’s also possible they allow a test from the last 48 hours like some states did this summer to get out of quarantining.

The travel ban trial balloon as you are describing is a fantasy. Nobody in the government suggested singling out FL. If you actually take the time to read what was said it included both FL and CA. The political pundits chose to make it about Biden punishing the Trump clone governor of FL but that‘s not what the actual rumor was. Just typical political nonsense. Here‘s an actual article:

The Biden administration is considering whether to impose domestic travel restrictions, including on Florida, fearful that coronavirus mutations are threatening to reverse hard-fought progress on the pandemic.

Outbreaks of the new variants — including a highly contagious one first identified in the United Kingdom, as well as others from South Africa and Brazil that scientists worry can evade existing vaccines — have lent urgency to a review of potential travel restrictions within the United States, one federal official said.

Discussions in the administration over potential travel restrictions do not target a specific state but focus on how to prevent the spread of variants that appear to be surging in a number of states, including Florida and California.

The Biden administration is considering whether to impose domestic travel restrictions, including on Florida, fearful that coronavirus mutations are threatening to reverse hard-fought progress on the pandemic.

Outbreaks of the new variants — including a highly contagious one first identified in the United Kingdom, as well as others from South Africa and Brazil that scientists worry can evade existing vaccines — have lent urgency to a review of potential travel restrictions within the United States, one federal official said.

Discussions in the administration over potential travel restrictions do not target a specific state but focus on how to prevent the spread of variants that appear to be surging in a number of states, including Florida and California.
 

sullivan.kscott

Well-Known Member
Yes. The rumor wasn’t specific to FL. It mentioned both FL and CA as potential places with a higher level of variant.


If the government requires a negative Covid test to fly domestically then I see no reason why they couldn’t make an exemption for anyone who was vaccinated. The only practical way to do this would be to setup rapid test sites at the airports. Then when you show up you either show proof of vaccination or proof of a negative test to get through security. Nobody is being denied a product or service. You can get the vaccine and fly no issue. If you choose not to get the vaccine you get tested and you still can fly. The only person denied would be someone who tested positive (who shouldn’t be flying) or someone who refuses to get tested.

I don’t think it will actually come to that point yet, but could get there this summer if cases aren’t low enough but the majority of people are vaccinated. Hopefully we get to 80%+ vaccinated and it’s all just an academic debate.
This is a real rub for me (and I'm sure others who live in similar areas). PCR testing is still a pain in the neck to secure unless you're symptomatic or identified by the (near non-existent outside of schools) county contact tracing program. I'd gladly submit to and pay for testing to board a plane knowing my fellow fliers were similarly tested. It's just a near impossibility right now. It's also why I think Dr Walensky has stopped short of implementing blanket testing requirements when she brings up language like "insomuch as testing is available it's the best step forward."
 

cmwade77

Well-Known Member
This wouldn't be denying service, however. Either test/quarantine, or be within time parameters for being fully vaccinWhich makes now a ated.

This, coupled with the anticipated April timeline laid out by Dr. Fauci and a few state outlets, means adults 16+ could be vaccinated for their summer travel plans without additional testing or requirements. There won't be a vaccine = mask free transport or similar until transmission and community spread warrant.

As I and others have assumed, the three month timeline for the exemption is likely to be extended as data permits. Also, kids 12+ may be cleared for vaccination by May or thereabouts. If all of this pans out to be true, August before schools go back could be a real mess of people "waiting it out" to take vacations with their adolescents.
Which makes now an excellent time to take a vacation if you don't have kids and may in the long run help lighten up the mess long run.
 

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