Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Chi84]

From some people I've talked to: yes, that's exactly it.

That's surprising, especially since we know so little about the long term effects of COVID, and what we do know isn't all that good. I expect nothing will convince those people short of being excluded from things they want to do. I read an article in the news this morning about local colleges looking into the possibility of requiring vaccines to live on campus/attend classes in person. Also, I know someone who works in a high-end restaurant who said the hospitality industry is closely following technology that would allow them to require proof of vaccination - the capacity limits of social distancing are hurting them, and few people want to dine wearing masks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I get that, but I'm honestly a bit discouraged at those who think they'll automatically be knocked out for a day. We're setting a wrong mentality by scaring people out of taking it.

I'm not really talking about scaring people out of being vaccinated but instead there being an imbalance in demand depending on the day of the week. What scares people is uncertainty. For a variety of factors we already have an issue with people showing up for work sick instead of taking time off. Removing that issue of uncertainty helps with confidence and opens up options for when people feel they can receive the shot instead of ending up with an imbalance where there is too much demand for Fridays and Saturdays but not enough demand on other days.

 

[sullyinMT]

Except those are not reported by a high percentage of people. There was a really good article showing the exact breakdown but it is roughly 15%

Back to the problem with reporting. People hear this and will fear it. I'm now 4 months past vaccination and unblinded as of today. Most dealt with issues to my level, not the other way around.



I'd laugh if it weren't so sadly true....

There will also be a fair number of people, myself included, who simply don’t report their response/side effects. I would have but threw out my paperwork with the QR code.

If close to 1 in 5 people are reporting some level of significant fatigue, what is the harm in being honest with people and suggesting they schedule especially their second dose around a day or two off work? It’s the kind of honest messaging we’ve been clamoring for all along. If you don’t need to rest in bed or take it easy, no harm no foul. But, even better, you don’t “waste” a precious day of PTO or force yourself into an unnecessary symptomatic quarantine for having similar manifestations to COVID.

I also doubt it would cause much bottlenecking on Friday appointment windows. Sites could lay out a majority of appointments for second doses. But more importantly, how often have we all made small talk with a cashier or server and have them mention “today is my Friday” on a Tuesday? A lot of industries run seven days a week and stagger staffing accordingly. So I’d imagine that second dose appointments naturally spread themselves out accordingly.
As for not reaching the “dense” who would rather have COVID than a robust vaccine response, I agree that there’s little we can do to reach them. But, we can - and should - try.

 

[Disney Experience]

I get that, but I'm honestly a bit discouraged at those who think they'll automatically be knocked out for a day. We're setting a wrong mentality by scaring people out of taking it.

I was told not to use any side effects as symptoms in the trialmax app for the shots. Anything in the 1st 48 hours to ignore for that but to call if it lasted longer. The covid symptom diary is separate from the side effect diary. So no, they are not mixed together.

My trial company was wonderful to work with too even with a telecom glitch that caused me to have to return for the 1st appointment twice. Got to the part where the system was supposed to randomize and the system went down. Bad luck. That's why it took me until Sept to get the shot as we had to reschedule the longest appointment.

Do you plan to unblind yourself?

Good to know that I was not supposed to report it in trialmax, I thought I might have misunderstood the protocol. I was not given the side effects diary [6000 of the 42000 received that]. I too had to delay my first shot to the first week of September due to having been vaccinated with the Yellow Fever vaccine at the start of August.(They called later that week).

Even with symptoms, they are so mild I think people are foolish to not get vaccinated for fear of the possibility of getting those side effects.

I have debated on getting unblinded. I think the fact that I had side effects on the second shot makes me very confident I was vaccinated. So with that confidence my risk to self if I stay blinded is less. I just have to determine the value to others if I stay blinded vs getting unblinded. I would likely have unblinded if I had few symptoms from the shots, since I would be feeling the probability of having the placebo would be higher than the probability of having got the vaccine.

There is risk of course in staying blinded. I will talk with the research Dr. on my six month visit. I do not remember the details of the letter nor the changes since then in Pfizer's plan for unblinding subjects. I know it has been posted in this thread earlier. (I know I read the original plan as they presented for EUA when they released the document).

 

[correcaminos]

I'm not really talking about scaring people out of being vaccinated but instead there being an imbalance in demand demanding on the day of the week. What scares people is uncertainty. For a variety of factors we already have an issue with people showing up for work sick instead of taking time off. Removing that issue of uncertainty helps with confidence and opens up options for when people feel they can receive the shot instead of ending up with an imbalance where there is too much demand for Fridays and Saturdays but not enough demand on other days.

Absolutely uncertainty scares people. I get it. I walked into the trial rather scared myself and even less was known about the vaccines as now. I think people are perpetrating the idea that this needs to be scary. Will some need a sick day the next day? Maybe some. Will most? Likely not. Also a lot of people do not work M-F 9-5 jobs. My medical friends do not and I do not. Doing it on a Friday or Saturday doesn't help me and won't help some anyway. For those who have jobs that require arm movement a lot then yes, try to schedule around. Your regular desk job people really should be mostly fine. Maybe don't schedule an outdoor activity that is hard on the body, but I do it with the flu shot too. Temper expectations.

I'm seriously tired of the news reporting the bad only with reactions. I knew if I was unblinded I would give my honest nitpciked experience to have honesty and transparency. Me doing the trial also helped family who feared it more. So my bias is I want all who can be vaccinated to be vaccinated and quit worrying so much.

There will also be a fair number of people, myself included, who simply don’t report their response/side effects. I would have but threw out my paperwork with the QR code.

Um them don't join a trial because that is exactly what we were there for. Seriously.

The danger is what I said above. We have distrust and if everyone thinks they will be bad instead of a smaller chance. It's about trust and that's lacking.

 

[correcaminos]

Good to know that I was not supposed to report it in trialmax, I thought I might have misunderstood the protocol. I was not given the side effects diary [6000 of the 42000 received that]. I too had to delay my first shot to the first week of September due to having been vaccinated with the Yellow Fever vaccine at the start of August.(They called later that week).

Even with symptoms, they are so mild I think people are foolish to not get vaccinated for fear of the possibility of getting those side effects.

I have debated on getting unblinded. I think the fact that I had side effects on the second shot makes me very confident I was vaccinated. So with that confidence my risk to self if I stay blinded is less. I just have to determine the value to others if I stay blinded vs getting unblinded. I would likely have unblinded if I had few symptoms from the shots, since I would be feeling the probability of having the placebo would be higher than the probability of having got the vaccine.

There is risk of course in staying blinded. I will talk with the research Dr. on my six month visit. I do not remember the details of the letter nor the changes since then in Pfizer's plan for unblinding subjects. I know it has been posted in this thread earlier. (I know I read the original plan as they presented for EUA when they released the document).

I want to be able to help more and unblinding allows me to do it. It allows me to help loved ones and crazy internet strangers to not fear. It allows me to volunteer my time more for those who need it. Lots of little things like that. I plan to use this for others more. I would also have taken the vaccine to help with long term efficacy and such. Also if they require proof for travel I am now covered. Not swaying, but letting you know why I agreed.

After my 2nd shot, they were adamant about the not putting side effects in the covid diary with me. They didn't want them mixed up or skewing data. I was originally scheduled in August after being called in July so I had received everything to be part of the side effect group and they went over all of that with me. Then the glitch happened and I was removed lol. One less diary to do. The side effects diary were meant for the first few days after anyway from what I recall. I'm sure it's in my Aug. Paperwork that I kept.

Good luck when you go in for your next one. I'm sure we'll have another huge long packet to go through and sign again

 

[sullyinMT]

Um them don't join a trial because that is exactly what we were there for. Seriously.

The danger is what I said above. We have distrust and if everyone thinks they will be bad instead of a smaller chance. It's about trust and that's lacking.

Or, you know, simple oversight. By the time I realized it, when I went to the CDC website, it was too late. Since I’m not officially in a trial (though under EUA you can make some argument of that), that doesn’t entirely hold water. I’m sure of the millions of people who have received at least one dose, I’m not the only one who made the same mistake, even if we’d have liked to participate and report.

We’re on the same team. Everyone who can be should be vaccinated. But there’s no harm in informing people of potentially moderate-severe responses and at least considering scheduling around them. I’ve been in the throes of patient care here in Montana, so I want it to end as soon as anyone.

 

[Disney Experience]

I want to be able to help more and unblinding allows me to do it. It allows me to help loved ones and crazy internet strangers to not fear. It allows me to volunteer my time more for those who need it. Lots of little things like that. I plan to use this for others more. I would also have taken the vaccine to help with long term efficacy and such. Also if they require proof for travel I am now covered. Not swaying, but letting you know why I agreed.

After my 2nd shot, they were adamant about the not putting side effects in the covid diary with me. They didn't want them mixed up or skewing data. I was originally scheduled in August after being called in July so I had received everything to be part of the side effect group and they went over all of that with me. Then the glitch happened and I was removed lol. One less diary to do. The side effects diary were meant for the first few days after anyway from what I recall. I'm sure it's in my Aug. Paperwork that I kept.

Good luck when you go in for your next one. I'm sure we'll have another huge long packet to go through and sign again

Well the Big Red Bus (One Blood) is going to be parked nearby tomorrow. I will see if they will take my double red blood cell donation (O neg) or if they cannot deviate from the protocol of a one year wait after getting an experimental vaccine. That perhaps they may see that the possibly getting the vaccine before public release is not more risky for the blood supply than someone who got it post EUA. (ie I got an "experimental" vaccine, while people now are getting an EUA approved vaccine, even if they are the same vaccine)

 

[DisneyDebRob]

My mom and dad finally got a appointment for tomorrow morning along with my aunt and uncle, all in their 80’s.
They got a number to call from my cousin,a nurse so they called. No one got back to them although they said they would get a callback. Then he saw his neighbor who had a appointment and got the number he called. It was for a place a hour away.They did get back to him the next day and my dad told me the woman he chatted with was sweet and she was able to set up my aunt and uncle also. They are very excited about it.
It just seems so haphazard the way things are set up. I realize it’s new to everyone and going to take time but it reminds me of the backstreet drug dealer.. who doesn’t have what the person wants.. directs them somewhere else to score. Hopefully very soon things will be a bit more coordinated.

 

[seabreezept813]

It’s a long term plan. The $1,400 stimulus checks will likely be approved this week. That money is out the door, not tied to vaccines. We will eventually hit the point where enough vaccines are available for 100% of Americans. At that point if enough people don’t take them we don’t reach herd immunity and we don’t end the recession and get the economy ramped up. Something like a $500 stimulus tied to vaccination acts as a traditional economic stimulus to jump start the economy but pays for itself by also bringing us to herd immunity faster and speeding economic recovery.

I just hate the idea of giving a financial reward for doing the right thing..but if it works go for it. Better off to let the non-vaxxers cave if they want to fly on a plane or go to a concert or better yet send their kids to school (I can dream).

 

[correcaminos]

Well the Big Red Bus (One Blood) is going to be parked nearby tomorrow. I will see if they will take my double red blood cell donation (O neg) or if they cannot deviate from the protocol of a one year wait after getting an experimental vaccine. That perhaps they may see that the possibly getting the vaccine before public release is not more risky for the blood supply than someone who got it post EUA. (ie I got an "experimental" vaccine, while people now are getting an EUA approved vaccine, even if they are the same vaccine)

Good luck with that. I am unable to donate otherwise so I haven't bothered to try. I'm interested to hear what they say!

Or, you know, simple oversight. By the time I realized it, when I went to the CDC website, it was too late. Since I’m not officially in a trial (though under EUA you can make some argument of that), that doesn’t entirely hold water. I’m sure of the millions of people who have received at least one dose, I’m not the only one who made the same mistake, even if we’d have liked to participate and report.

We’re on the same team. Everyone who can be should be vaccinated. But there’s no harm in informing people of potentially moderate-severe responses and at least considering scheduling around them. I’ve been in the throes of patient care here in Montana, so I want it to end as soon as anyone.

I think my point is that if you agree to do a trial, most are serious about it and do not just ignore things. I get what you are saying though. I don't have issues with people giving side effects but I took issue with saying the majority will need to do x or y when it's a smaller percentage may need to. Friends are all comparing side effects and so far only one had a really bad night. The rest were fine. Oddly the bad off was Pfizer. Which kinda shocked me but they know they react harder than most anyway. It's good to be honest, it's not good to take info and stretch the truth.

The only side effect I ever get (beyond sometimes anxiety induced side effects) would be a sore arm. Maybe feel warmer but I never took temps until the trial. The temp I got was similar to when I'm all anxious anyway or let's be real I'm a woman who could deal with hot flashes lol. Anyway that's all I ever feel. So this was typical for a more serious vaccine like MMR or dtap. I think if you usually are fine, you likely will be fine. Now don't be dumb and run a marathon or go do strenuous activity that isn't your norm, but I don't do that after any vaccine anyway lol. I think level headed answers are good. Yes it could happen, but it isn't as likely to happen as more mild responses.

 

[sullyinMT]

Good luck with that. I am unable to donate otherwise so I haven't bothered to try. I'm interested to hear what they say!


I think my point is that if you agree to do a trial, most are serious about it and do not just ignore things. I get what you are saying though. I don't have issues with people giving side effects but I took issue with saying the majority will need to do x or y when it's a smaller percentage may need to. Friends are all comparing side effects and so far only one had a really bad night. The rest were fine. Oddly the bad off was Pfizer. Which kinda shocked me but they know they react harder than most anyway. It's good to be honest, it's not good to take info and stretch the truth.

The only side effect I ever get (beyond sometimes anxiety induced side effects) would be a sore arm. Maybe feel warmer but I never took temps until the trial. The temp I got was similar to when I'm all anxious anyway or let's be real I'm a woman who could deal with hot flashes lol. Anyway that's all I ever feel. So this was typical for a more serious vaccine like MMR or dtap. I think if you usually are fine, you likely will be fine. Now don't be dumb and run a marathon or go do strenuous activity that isn't your norm, but I don't do that after any vaccine anyway lol. I think level headed answers are good. Yes it could happen, but it isn't as likely to happen as more mild responses.

100% we (in general terms) shouldn’t be sensationalizing or hyping the side effects as a way to gain viewership or clicks. And it shouldn’t necessarily be an all or nothing scheduling option to take the day off after receiving the vaccine. Because my wife works from home, she initially scheduled #2 as just another day. Just yesterday, after seeing my mild but real fatigue combined with her more pronounced reaction to #1 caused her to reschedule. e should be making people aware of possibility and giving them the option, as opposed to them (potentially) feeling like they got run over by a small ‘92 Ford Ranger and then complaining to their friends and Instagram followers.

What most of us here know full well to be normal, if not more pronounced, vaccine responses can find their way into misinformation campaigns quickly if all of us recipients don’t get out there to honestly and earnestly help our friends and acquaintances understand the importance of being vaccinated.

 

[Patcheslee]

Well the Big Red Bus (One Blood) is going to be parked nearby tomorrow. I will see if they will take my double red blood cell donation (O neg) or if they cannot deviate from the protocol of a one year wait after getting an experimental vaccine. That perhaps they may see that the possibly getting the vaccine before public release is not more risky for the blood supply than someone who got it post EUA. (ie I got an "experimental" vaccine, while people now are getting an EUA approved vaccine, even if they are the same vaccine)

Does bone marrow/stem cell donation have the same restriction? That's the only thing I can do already.

 

[GoofGoof]

I just hate the idea of giving a financial reward for doing the right thing..but if it works go for it. Better off to let the non-vaxxers cave if they want to fly on a plane or go to a concert or better yet send their kids to school (I can dream).

Better off for who? For the economy that‘s definitely not a good plan. For WDW or a restaurant or a hotel they want the most people possible to get the vaccine as soon as possible. They can restrict people from doing business with them if they don’t have it but depending on how many people are in that group it could be pretty detrimental to their bottom line. for example, kids under 12 may not be approved for vaccines until 2022 so that would mean WDW would have to ban all kids under 12 for the rest of the year. That’s a harsh pill for them to swallow considering their prime demographics.

I don’t view it as giving a financial reward for doing the right thing. It’s a stimulus intended to jump start the economy. Another payment is likely to happen before the recession ends with or without having the payment tied to a vaccine. If you tie it to the vaccine it gives people incentive to not refuse to get the vaccine, so maybe more a reward for not doing the wrong thing.

With everything else related to the vaccine it’s less about fair and more about the best way to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible.

 

[Disney Experience]

Does bone marrow/stem cell donation have the same restriction? That's the only thing I can do already.

Here is One Blood's public policy on bone marrow:

If you have received a common immunization, you may register to become a potential volunteer donor. If you have received an investigational vaccine, however, your situation must be evaluated. Some immunizations (such as smallpox) will require assessment if you are selected as a potential donor

Special Services | OneBlood

While OneBlood's primary mission is to help connect community donors with hospital patients, we do offer special blood donation methods.

www.oneblood.org

It is less cut and dry than blood donations (I will actually look and see if they updated the blood donations to "your situation must be evaluated" vs "wait one year")

 

[Disney Experience]

(I will actually look and see if they updated the blood donations to "your situation must be evaluated" vs "wait one year")

They updated on January 8th. Perhaps they will let me donate(I had Pfizer, but last time I asked they said not then and not likely even after EUA. But they might have backed down from that initial interpretation of their policy).

I will find out tomorrow.

National Minority Health Month Awareness

National Minority Health Month is recognized every year in April and is dedicated to raising awareness about health disparities among minority populations.

www.oneblood.org

Can I donate blood or platelets after receiving the COVID-19 vaccine?
If you receive the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine there is no waiting period to donate blood or platelets after receiving these vaccines and you can donate now. However, if you receive the COVID-19 vaccine from any other manufacturer you will need to wait two weeks before donating.

 

[seabreezept813]

Better off for who? For the economy that‘s definitely not a good plan. For WDW or a restaurant or a hotel they want the most people possible to get the vaccine as soon as possible. They can restrict people from doing business with them if they don’t have it but depending on how many people are in that group it could be pretty detrimental to their bottom line. for example, kids under 12 may not be approved for vaccines until 2022 so that would mean WDW would have to ban all kids under 12 for the rest of the year. That’s a harsh pill for them to swallow considering their prime demographics.

I don’t view it as giving a financial reward for doing the right thing. It’s a stimulus intended to jump start the economy. Another payment is likely to happen before the recession ends with or without having the payment tied to a vaccine. If you tie it to the vaccine it gives people incentive to not refuse to get the vaccine, so maybe more a reward for not doing the wrong thing.

With everything else related to the vaccine it’s less about fair and more about the best way to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I guess I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that the economy can only recover with full vaccine participation. I think we’ll get to a point where everyone can get it and if you don’t then you live with that risk until you are forced to comply in order to participate in certain activities. I could be totally off but I’m guessing those avoiding the vaccine aren’t the ones making safe decisions right now and those who do vaccinate will start doing things again once they are protected. But if herd immunity is the only way to get the economy moving again, I get your point. I just wonder will this be more like the flu—something that is out there and dangerous but we choose whether or not to limit our chances of getting it or having a severe outcome.

 

[GoofGoof]

I guess I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that the economy can only recover with full vaccine participation. I think we’ll get to a point where everyone can get it and if you don’t then you live with that risk until you are forced to comply in order to participate in certain activities. I could be totally off but I’m guessing those avoiding the vaccine aren’t the ones making safe decisions right now and those who do vaccinate will start doing things again once they are protected. But if herd immunity is the only way to get the economy moving again, I get your point. I just wonder will this be more like the flu—something that is out there and dangerous but we choose whether or not to limit our chances of getting it or having a severe outcome.

Getting at least 80% of the population vaccinated as quickly as possible is the fastest way for the economy to fully recover. There are some people who will never get vaccinated whether for medical reasons or because they don‘t want to get it, that’s fine as long as we get enough to snuff out the spread. If for example we only get to 50% vaccinated then the pandemic will drag on. Not necessarily forever, we will just have to wait for the half that didn’t get vaccinated to get naturally infected which will happen eventually. I think the economy will expand as more people get vaccinated and cases drop. In the same example where only half the population is vaccinated, any business which prohibits anyone without the vaccine will have half as many people in their possible pool of customers. In the example of WDW they won’t be able to get back to business as usual with half the people blocked.

I do think once we get to 70-80% of the population vaccinated we will reach herd immunity and see cases drop dramatically. In that best case scenario there won’t be a need to require proof of vaccination for much of anything since the pandemic will be over and businesses will mostly be fully open. Where the vaccine proof comes into play is if we only reach say 50% by June and a cruise line wants to have sailings this summer. They require proof of vaccine so they can open and because some customers is better than none. Ideally they would rather see us reach herd immunity and not have to require proof of vaccine. That’s why I’m saying for businesses forced to require proof of vaccine it’s not the best situation economically.

 

[correcaminos]

100% we (in general terms) shouldn’t be sensationalizing or hyping the side effects as a way to gain viewership or clicks. And it shouldn’t necessarily be an all or nothing scheduling option to take the day off after receiving the vaccine. Because my wife works from home, she initially scheduled #2 as just another day. Just yesterday, after seeing my mild but real fatigue combined with her more pronounced reaction to #1 caused her to reschedule. e should be making people aware of possibility and giving them the option, as opposed to them (potentially) feeling like they got run over by a small ‘92 Ford Ranger and then complaining to their friends and Instagram followers.

What most of us here know full well to be normal, if not more pronounced, vaccine responses can find their way into misinformation campaigns quickly if all of us recipients don’t get out there to honestly and earnestly help our friends and acquaintances understand the importance of being vaccinated.

I truly am picking on the sensationalizing that I see going on with the news. Sharing the major reactions and scaring really is hurting people and making them afraid. I had no choice but to plan it when the trial gave it. The second shot I had to go on. Kid in school at home and transitioning to hybrid and I had to go in for work. Not all will have the ability to stop life and we need to find ways to let people not be so afraid of a chance of side effects that they skip. It's a delicate balance.

Of course if we could be community oriented more, this wouldn't even be an issue.

They updated on January 8th. Perhaps they will let me donate(I had Pfizer, but last time I asked they said not then and not likely even after EUA. But they might have backed down from that initial interpretation of their policy).

I will find out tomorrow.

National Minority Health Month Awareness

National Minority Health Month is recognized every year in April and is dedicated to raising awareness about health disparities among minority populations.

www.oneblood.org

That's pretty cool! Keep us posted!

 

[DCBaker]