Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[mmascari]

I would make sure that if I had specific significant conditions that were excluded from the vaccine’s phase 3 study to wait for others like me to take the vaccine.

Part of the EUA should covert this. It'll only be approved for scenarios that were studied. Then more expansion, more data, expanded EUA use. Eventually it'll be generally approved and may still have some limited restrictions where it shouldn't be used. The label is super important. Not the little sticker on the bottle/vial but the multiple page information list that's part of the approval.

When you look at the response and statistics from a worldwide perspective, it is obvious that none of the states are doing a ‘great job’, objectively.

This always drives me crazy. We look at someplace and say "it's not being handled well there" and someone brings up "last month you said it was handled well in this other place and look at how bad they are now". This doesn't mean the first place should be congratulated on doing well. It means the other place has problems now too and that both places are now handling it poorly. They're both bad now. This isn't a competition between two places where the one doing less bad is the winner. Everyone can lose.

 

[GoofGoof]

Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire have the advantage of low populations and no big cities. They are also very rural. The problem is across the entire country but look at the deaths. Back in March we were all told and still are being told that elderly citizens are the highest risk. Well Florida has the 5th highest average age in 2019 of 42.4. Only Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire and West Virginia have an older average population. So what is Florida doing better than most states? It has taken steps to protect the elderly but at the same time keeping it's economy open. Does Florida still have a lot of cases? Yes, more than they want but they are people at a lower risk and recovering. The real judgement on how states handled Covid19 will come in 2022. Covid19 will be over and we will all know how many people got sick and how many recovered, how many people died and how many people still have problems. But, we will also know how states did economically. How high the unemployment is. How many businesses were lost. How many programs had to be eliminated. How many people committed suicide due to Covid19. How much domestic violence increased. There are so many things we need to know before we can really judge who did a good job and who didn't.

North and South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming are all very rural, all have low population and no big cities and are ranked 1, 2, 7 and 8 in most cases per capita so I don’t think you can just blanket say the positives in Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire is just demographics.

The states with the highest deaths per capita are all in the NE and all part of the first major wave. They didn’t lock down the long term care facilities early on because we didn’t know to do it. If you look at deaths per capita outside of LT care facilities FL isn’t looking so great. For example PA has 7,005 deaths in LT care facilities of 11,542 total deaths so 4,537 outside of LT care facilities or 349 deaths per million people. I couldn’t find the most up to date number for FL but they had over 7,000 deaths from LT care facilities back in Mid-Nov out of 19,529 deaths. So outside of LT care facilities around 12,000 deaths or 571 deaths per million people. Now if you just look at total deaths it’s PA it’s 962 per million and 930 per million for FL. So obviously FL has done better with LT care facilities and worse with the general population. Of the 7,005 deaths in LT care facilities in PA over 4,000 or around 60% of them occurred in the first wave. I think that shows there was a huge problem and the issue was addressed. So yes, FL has done better with nursing home deaths but a Lot of that is due to timing. In the general population, outside LT care it’s pretty clear that the policies in place are resulting in more death.

On the economy, we shall see. I see no sign that FL is experiencing an economic recovery right now despite the removal of statewide restrictions on businesses. If the end goal of removing restrictions is to help the overall economy I think we will have to wait to see if that worked. History from the 1918 pandemic shows that places with tighter restrictions and better health outcomes did better economically medium to long term. I think it’s a false narrative that opening businesses to the detriment of public health is a lock to help the economy long term.

On the mental health side of the equation it’s not an easy time for anyone. I don’t think we can just blanket look at government restrictions and pin all suicides on that. There’s a great deal of mental stress from people and their loved ones getting very sick and/or dying. The more sickness and death the more of that mental stress. People look at the percent of people that actually died from Covid as a very small number, but the percent of people who suffered significant mental strain due to a friend or loved one dying is much, much higher. There’s stress from job loss but how much of that is avoided with removing restrictions? Are the people who were out of work in FL all back to work now that government restrictions are removed? are the people back to work living stress free now? I think it’s a political talking point and a false narrative that’s been pushed from the beginning that the government restrictions are the main cause of mental stress. The pandemic is the main cause and that could have been reduced with better control of the virus.

 

[GoofGoof]

Night time shows will probably come back. What I think won't come back is the streetmosphere. Things like Citizens of Hollywood.

That stuff is always coming and going. I think some will come back and some won’t and over time some new stuff will be added in and some additional stuff will go away. I don’t think Covid has much to do with that in the long term. Yes, for now and in the foreseeable future that stuff is gone due to Covid, but as soon as they ramp back up to full capacity some of it comes back right away and other stuff will be gradually brought back.

 

[HarperRose]

looks like some people with a history of strong allergic reactions ( carries epipens with them) had reactions on taking vaccine.

The phase 3 study had conditions that excluded a subject from participating. People with any of those excluding conditions would therefore not have been represented in the study results.

My wife told me she was not accepted into the Pfizer study that I was in due to a thyroid condition, but she was accepted into the Moderna.

NHS told not to give Covid vaccine to those with history of allergic reactions

Two health service workers experienced symptoms after receiving Pfizer vaccine

www.theguardian.com

There were two people that had noted reactions, they both have a long history of allergic reactions.

 

[GoofGoof]

This always drives me crazy. We look at someplace and say "it's not being handled well there" and someone brings up "last month you said it was handled well in this other place and look at how bad they are now". This doesn't mean the first place should be congratulated on doing well. It means the other place has problems now too and that both places are now handling it poorly. They're both bad now. This isn't a competition between two places where the one doing less bad is the winner. Everyone can lose.

Everyone is losing right now. The best thing to do is look at an individual area and judge it based on whether they could be doing better. Right now I don’t think anywhere in the US can say they couldn’t be doing any better. There were points in time this summer when a number of states could say with a straight face they were doing the best they could. None were ever New Zealand good, but low case counts and % positive well below 5% for months at a time is way better than what we see today.

 

[Jrb1979]

That stuff is always coming and going. I think some will come back and some won’t and over time some new stuff will be added in and some additional stuff will go away. I don’t think Covid has much to do with that in the long term. Yes, for now and in the foreseeable future that stuff is gone due to Covid, but as soon as they ramp back up to full capacity some of it comes back right away and other stuff will be gradually brought back.

I don't think a lot of these cuts had anything to do with Covid. Many were already to planned on happening. Covid gave them an excuse to do if faster. I don't think much of it comes back. I know many of are hoping it does but I think Bob Chapek is focused on the ROI.

 

[GoofGoof]

There were two people that had noted reactions, they both have a long history of allergic reactions.

...and their reactions were no big deal compared to the alternative. A person is dying every 30 seconds in the US from Covid. A few people took a shot from an epi pen after their vaccine. No big deal.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't think a lot of these cuts had anything to do with Covid. Many were already to planned on happening. Covid gave them an excuse to do if faster. I don't think much of it comes back. I know many of are hoping it does but I think Bob Chapek is focused on the ROI.

It’s a give and take. The budget won’t be zero. It will be up to operations for the most part to decide what to keep and what to cut. I don’t think Chapek gets too involved with those low level decisions. He would be involved with approving an overall budget.

 

[seascape]

North and South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming are all very rural, all have low population and no big cities and are ranked 1, 2, 7 and 8 in most cases per capita so I don’t think you can just blanket say the positives in Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire is just demographics.

The states with the highest deaths per capita are all in the NE and all part of the first major wave. They didn’t lock down the long term care facilities early on because we didn’t know to do it. If you look at deaths per capita outside of LT care facilities FL isn’t looking so great. For example PA has 7,005 deaths in LT care facilities of 11,542 total deaths so 4,537 outside of LT care facilities or 349 deaths per million people. I couldn’t find the most up to date number for FL but they had over 7,000 deaths from LT care facilities back in Mid-Nov out of 19,529 deaths. So outside of LT care facilities around 12,000 deaths or 571 deaths per million people. Now if you just look at total deaths it’s PA it’s 962 per million and 930 per million for FL. So obviously FL has done better with LT care facilities and worse with the general population. Of the 7,005 deaths in LT care facilities in PA over 4,000 or around 60% of them occurred in the first wave. I think that shows there was a huge problem and the issue was addressed. So yes, FL has done better with nursing home deaths but a Lot of that is due to timing. In the general population, outside LT care it’s pretty clear that the policies in place are resulting in more death.

On the economy, we shall see. I see no sign that FL is experiencing an economic recovery right now despite the removal of statewide restrictions on businesses. If the end goal of removing restrictions is to help the overall economy I think we will have to wait to see if that worked. History from the 1918 pandemic shows that places with tighter restrictions and better health outcomes did better economically medium to long term. I think it’s a false narrative that opening businesses to the detriment of public health is a lock to help the economy long term.

On the mental health side of the equation it’s not an easy time for anyone. I don’t think we can just blanket look at government restrictions and pin all suicides on that. There’s a great deal of mental stress from people and their loved ones getting very sick and/or dying. The more sickness and death the more of that mental stress. People look at the percent of people that actually died from Covid as a very small number, but the percent of people who suffered significant mental strain due to a friend or loved one dying is much, much higher. There’s stress from job loss but how much of that is avoided with removing restrictions? Are the people who were out of work in FL all back to work now that government restrictions are removed? are the people back to work living stress free now? I think it’s a political talking point and a false narrative that’s been pushed from the beginning that the government restrictions are the main cause of mental stress. The pandemic is the main cause and that could have been reduced with better control of the virus.

I think we can agree that we have to wait until the Covid19 problem is over before determining which state handled things better. As you said Florida has done better with the Elderly but not as well with those in other groups. If you look at everything I said needs to be evaluated, you will see I did not just include those who caught Covid19 and those who died from it but also a category for those with long term problems. That last one has been ignored but I also included other issues which I believe are very important.

The debt that we have added to the Federal Government and State and Local Governments must be considered. How much will this debt cost and how mamy programs that help the poor and middleclass have to be cut. If anyone thinks that there is not a long term cost for Covid19 they are wrong. There will be a combination of inflation and higher taxes. I know a couple of senior citizens that had two family homes with a renter they used to pay for the taxes, maintenance and utilities for their home and have a little left to help with their other needs. Due to the fact that their tenants haven't paid their rents for several months, based on what Governor Cuomo and Mayor DeBlasio have told them, they have been unable to pay their taxes and utilities or pay for necessities. Is that fair? No one is willing to admit that most landlords have 1 or 2 units and that's it.

Am I willing today to say Florida did a better job than most othet states? No, because I know we have to wait until Covid19 is over and see where they are but I insist that anyone who thinks that New York and New Jersey are doing better are wrong. Deaths count more that the number of people who got sick and recovered. Citizens who lost their jobs and had to use up their savings including their 401k's and IRA's will not have as long a life expectancy in retirement. That is one area Florida takes a major hit on. Florida completely screwed up their unemployment system. NY and NJ had major problems with their unemployment systems but I don't even know what would could explain how bad Florida's was.

In conclusion, I think it is way too early for anyone to say any Governor did a good job and that has been my point since I started criticizing Governor Cuomo. It is because in March when he started his daily press conferences I liked him and supported him. But he changed, he never admitted he was wrong on anything. He always had to blame someone else. A good leader would admit their mistakes, something everyone will agree Trump does not and neither does Cuomo.

 

[SamusAranX]

North and South Dakota, Montana and Wyoming are all very rural, all have low population and no big cities and are ranked 1, 2, 7 and 8 in most cases per capita so I don’t think you can just blanket say the positives in Maine, Vermont and New Hampshire is just demographics.

The states with the highest deaths per capita are all in the NE and all part of the first major wave. They didn’t lock down the long term care facilities early on because we didn’t know to do it. If you look at deaths per capita outside of LT care facilities FL isn’t looking so great. For example PA has 7,005 deaths in LT care facilities of 11,542 total deaths so 4,537 outside of LT care facilities or 349 deaths per million people. I couldn’t find the most up to date number for FL but they had over 7,000 deaths from LT care facilities back in Mid-Nov out of 19,529 deaths. So outside of LT care facilities around 12,000 deaths or 571 deaths per million people. Now if you just look at total deaths it’s PA it’s 962 per million and 930 per million for FL. So obviously FL has done better with LT care facilities and worse with the general population. Of the 7,005 deaths in LT care facilities in PA over 4,000 or around 60% of them occurred in the first wave. I think that shows there was a huge problem and the issue was addressed. So yes, FL has done better with nursing home deaths but a Lot of that is due to timing. In the general population, outside LT care it’s pretty clear that the policies in place are resulting in more death.

On the economy, we shall see. I see no sign that FL is experiencing an economic recovery right now despite the removal of statewide restrictions on businesses. If the end goal of removing restrictions is to help the overall economy I think we will have to wait to see if that worked. History from the 1918 pandemic shows that places with tighter restrictions and better health outcomes did better economically medium to long term. I think it’s a false narrative that opening businesses to the detriment of public health is a lock to help the economy long term.

On the mental health side of the equation it’s not an easy time for anyone. I don’t think we can just blanket look at government restrictions and pin all suicides on that. There’s a great deal of mental stress from people and their loved ones getting very sick and/or dying. The more sickness and death the more of that mental stress. People look at the percent of people that actually died from Covid as a very small number, but the percent of people who suffered significant mental strain due to a friend or loved one dying is much, much higher. There’s stress from job loss but how much of that is avoided with removing restrictions? Are the people who were out of work in FL all back to work now that government restrictions are removed? are the people back to work living stress free now? I think it’s a political talking point and a false narrative that’s been pushed from the beginning that the government restrictions are the main cause of mental stress. The pandemic is the main cause and that could have been reduced with better control of the virus.

Long post, but I have to disagree with mainly the assertion that they didn’t know to lock down nursing homes and LTcF’s.

if there is one thing we DID know from the very beginning even with China being coy, it’s that the virus disproportionately affected and killed the elderly. Which is why many at the time wondered why they were locking down the whole country (not understanding that the virus still had small chances of affecting healthy people, and also increased in effects in the higher risk categories). When Washington was the early hot spot, it wiped out people in nursing homes.

You know that I don’t care about the politics of the situation, or who is what party; but unfortunately I think the states did fail in forcing homes to accept positive patients and not locking down those right away. And I don’t just mean the NE. This is one reason, among many, why I think human rulership is a joke

 

[danlb_2000]

This mornings New York Times numbers show how bad Florida is doing on handling cases. Florida has more cases per 100,000 than Hawaii,Vermont, Maine, Oregon, Washington and Virginia. The other 43 states have more cases per 100,000 than Florida. So yes, Florida must be handling it horribly and New Jersey, New York and Pennsylvania must be doing a great job. After all, we know the New York Times is always right.

So what steps is Florida taking to reduce cases that you think NJ, NY and PA should also be doing?

 

[jaklgreen]

looks like some people with a history of strong allergic reactions ( carries epipens with them) had reactions on taking vaccine.

The phase 3 study had conditions that excluded a subject from participating. People with any of those excluding conditions would therefore not have been represented in the study results.

My wife told me she was not accepted into the Pfizer study that I was in due to a thyroid condition, but she was accepted into the Moderna.

NHS told not to give Covid vaccine to those with history of allergic reactions

Two health service workers experienced symptoms after receiving Pfizer vaccine

www.theguardian.com

And this is why the rest of us should get the vaccine. To protect those who can't.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Canada’s next.

 

[seascape]

So what steps is Florida taking to reduce cases that you think NJ, NY and PA should also be doing?

Start with Nursing Homes in Florida not having to accept Covid19 patients but NY and NJ required Nursing Homes to take them. Those states can't say they didn't know the problem of Covid19 and Nursing Homes becausr of Washington States experience.

 

[Supertech65]

Fellow Rhode Islander. Thank you for all that you are doing for our state.

That's so nice of you, thank you

 

[HarperRose]

Canada’s next.

US approval is expected sometime this week (hopefully).

 

[MisterPenguin]

US approval is expected sometime this week (hopefully).

For a while, the date thrown around was the 10th, which is tomorrow.

 

[sullyinMT]

They still do (or did)...it’s called “Disneyland”

The cruises are still good for this, too. It’s a nice mix of spontaneous and planned.

 

[GoofGoof]

Long post, but I have to disagree with mainly the assertion that they didn’t know to lock down nursing homes and LTcF’s.

if there is one thing we DID know from the very beginning even with China being coy, it’s that the virus disproportionately affected and killed the elderly. Which is why many at the time wondered why they were locking down the whole country (not understanding that the virus still had small chances of affecting healthy people, and also increased in effects in the higher risk categories). When Washington was the early hot spot, it wiped out people in nursing homes.

You know that I don’t care about the politics of the situation, or who is what party; but unfortunately I think the states did fail in forcing homes to accept positive patients and not locking down those right away. And I don’t just mean the NE. This is one reason, among many, why I think human rulership is a joke

There was a disproportionate number of nursing home related deaths in March and April in the NE where the first wave happened. It’s a fact. You can see the numbers. It’s not that we didn’t know that those patients were the highest risk it’s the level of locking them down. We learned from our mistakes. There is nothing in April that nursing homes in FL were doing different than nursing homes in NY/NJ. The difference is the community spread in the NE was really high and LT care facility workers and also visitors to a lesser extent were more likely to be infected. By May we realized this huge mistake and corrected it to the best of our ability nationwide. FL had its spike in community spread after the correction. It’s all documented history. In April did FL nursing homes not allow positive patients back in and lock their facilities down? I don’t think that’s the case. They just got lucky that community spread wasn’t as bad so less of an impact.

 

[GoofGoof]

Start with Nursing Homes in Florida not having to accept Covid19 patients but NY and NJ required Nursing Homes to take them. Those states can't say they didn't know the problem of Covid19 and Nursing Homes becausr of Washington States experience.

Was that true as early as March and April? I think FL was doing the same things as NY/NJ back then.

Edit: here’s some stories from April and May that show FL was doing the same thing:

Seniors are sick with coronavirus and need special care. But hospitals and nursing homes are in conflict about who takes on the less-critical patients

South Florida’s vulnerable elderly sickened by the new coronavirus are finding themselves in an anxiety-producing conundrum — stuck between the competing priorities of nursing homes and…

www.sun-sentinel.com

Florida transferring nursing home residents with coronavirus into hospitals

Florida has been mass-transferring residents with coronavirus out of nursing homes with outbreaks and into local hospitals since Sunday, regardless of whether they show signs of the virus. So far, …

www.sun-sentinel.com

A quote from the story written May13 about LT care in FL:

Only a month ago, hospitals were eager to send elderly patients back to their long-term care facilities when they were still positive but no longer needed hospitalization.