Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[JoeCamel]

I wouldn't be surprised if all buffets everywhere never return to self service. I think COVID has made people think about how unsanitary they are with people touching serving utensils and the dropping them into the serving trays, etc.

Near me is an asian buffet that has returned, people have to use sanitizer before they touch the service. Can't say I have partaken but I don't eat enough at one sitting to make buffets attractive in any case.

 

[GoofGoof]

I wouldn't be surprised if all buffets everywhere never return to self service. I think COVID has made people think about how unsanitary they are with people touching serving utensils and the dropping them into the serving trays, etc.

I can’t believe I’m saying this...but I agree It may be that buffets fall way out of favor. It’s hard to say now. I think many people will have to slowly return to “normalcy“ after over a year of living pandemic style. In 2022 or 2025 will this start to become a distant memory or will some aspects stick? I’m not sure. By avoiding labor costs buffets are a cheap and profitable business so if demand comes back I’m sure they will return. They are also faster to turn over since people don’t have to order and then wait for food.

 

[Polkadotdress]

I can’t believe I’m saying this...but I agree It may be that buffets fall way out of favor. It’s hard to say now. I think many people will have to slowly return to “normalcy“ after over a year of living pandemic style. In 2022 or 2025 will this start to become a distant memory or will some aspects stick? I’m not sure. By avoiding labor costs buffets are a cheap and profitable business so if demand comes back I’m sure they will return. They are also faster to turn over since people don’t have to order and then wait for food.

In addition to the traditional buffet, don't forget that conventions and events are largely reliant on "buffet-style" food as part of the event. Layering in additional servers to staff the buffets would raise the event costs tremendously.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

In addition to the traditional buffet. don't forget that conventions and events are largely reliant on "buffet-style" food as part of the event. Layering in additional servers to staff the buffets would raise the event costs tremendously.

And more jobs! Isn’t job loss the most important thing? More important than the lives of those old people that’s for sure.

 

[Disney Experience]

In addition to the traditional buffet. don't forget that conventions and events are largely reliant on "buffet-style" food as part of the event. Layering in additional servers to staff the buffets would raise the event costs tremendously.

When I was at the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island I attended a few events with wonderful buffets, all fully manned with servers, and people distanced themselves. Lots of people, lots of fun. It was not serve yourself.

Side note: A post I did about a day ago was finally moderator spproved. It talks about the current state of Sweden which has tried minimal controls, as well as another link to an article that describes why Sweden may have lower vaccine compliance.

 

[danlb_2000]

I wonder if they have the ability to reach out to Pfizer for additional data in this time period. I’m not a scientist so trying to put this in finance terms. When you have an audit the auditors spend a lot of time reviewing data provided by the client and there is a back and forth where the auditors ask questions or ask for additional data. It’s only after all of the data is compiled that the formal audit opinion is given. Maybe I’m way off on this.

I found this quote in article about the process. Not a lot of detail but it does give an idea of the magnitude of the review process...

"An agency spokesperson tells Axios, "The amount of data submitted to the FDA includes thousands of pages of technical information that must be divided up and reviewed by experts from different disciplines. Once the reviews by the various experts are completed, they are then integrated into an overall review.

Completion of these reviews involves such things as ensuring that the manufacturing process and the controls on manufacturing are appropriate, checking statistical analyses performed to ensure that they were done properly and doing additional analyses, as necessary, to look at the effect of the vaccine on subsets of individuals who might be at greater risk of adverse effects."

 

[DisneyCane]

I can’t believe I’m saying this...but I agree It may be that buffets fall way out of favor. It’s hard to say now. I think many people will have to slowly return to “normalcy“ after over a year of living pandemic style. In 2022 or 2025 will this start to become a distant memory or will some aspects stick? I’m not sure. By avoiding labor costs buffets are a cheap and profitable business so if demand comes back I’m sure they will return. They are also faster to turn over since people don’t have to order and then wait for food.

It's good to know that we can find something to agree on! Perhaps due to the profitability they will find ways to make them more sanitary and acceptable to people. Maybe things like (as mentioned by @JoeCamel above) requiring hand sanitizer. For that to make me comfortable, there would have to be an employee enforcing the policy before somebody could go near the service area.

Even before COVID on the rare occasions that I ate in a buffet, I'd sanitize my own hands, take a plate from far down in the stack, only take food from the very back of the tray where it hadn't been close to touched yet and then sanitize my serving hand.

 

[GoofGoof]

I found this quote in article about the process. Not a lot of detail but it does give an idea of the magnitude of the review process...

"An agency spokesperson tells Axios, "The amount of data submitted to the FDA includes thousands of pages of technical information that must be divided up and reviewed by experts from different disciplines. Once the reviews by the various experts are completed, they are then integrated into an overall review.

Completion of these reviews involves such things as ensuring that the manufacturing process and the controls on manufacturing are appropriate, checking statistical analyses performed to ensure that they were done properly and doing additional analyses, as necessary, to look at the effect of the vaccine on subsets of individuals who might be at greater risk of adverse effects."

Yeah, I think the manufacturing portion is largely forgotten by the general public. It’s not just safety and efficacy of the vaccine itself but also whether they meet standards for manufacturing and quality control. That’s how these things are done. I want this vaccine as soon as possible, but only if it’s safe. I think this process helps get us all there.

 

[GoofGoof]

In addition to the traditional buffet. don't forget that conventions and events are largely reliant on "buffet-style" food as part of the event. Layering in additional servers to staff the buffets would raise the event costs tremendously.

Hotel breakfast buffets as well as concierge level free food are all in question too. Since they are extras added in without direct revenue it’s hard to justify staff to serve. An expensive buffet like chef Mickey should be able to make it a go, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they reduced the variety of food. Less food options means less servers to hire.

When I was at the Grand Hotel on Mackinac Island I attended a few events with wonderful buffets, all fully manned eith servers, and people distanced themselves. Lots of people, lots of fun. It was not serve yourself.

Side note: A post I did about a day ago was finally moderator spproved. It talks about the current state of Sweden which has tried minimal controls, as well as another link to an article that describes why Sweden may have lower vaccine compliance.

Many weddings with buffets have servers too. Pre-Covid I think it was considered higher end or more elegant to have servers instead of self serve.

 

[Patcheslee]

You lost me at dole whip...all logic and sense of responsibility is out the window when attempting to obtain that tasty frozen treat

Have you tried DoorDash or Postmates for it yet?

 

[GoofGoof]

It's good to know that we can find something to agree on! Perhaps due to the profitability they will find ways to make them more sanitary and acceptable to people. Maybe things like (as mentioned by @JoeCamel above) requiring hand sanitizer. For that to make me comfortable, there would have to be an employee enforcing the policy before somebody could go near the service area.

Even before COVID on the rare occasions that I ate in a buffet, I'd sanitize my own hands, take a plate from far down in the stack, only take food from the very back of the tray where it hadn't been close to touched yet and then sanitize my serving hand.

We probably agree on more things than you think...just not Covid

 

[GoofGoof]

Have you tried DoorDash or Postmates for it yet?

No, but we made our own at home. Not quite the same, but if you close your eyes you can pretend you are there

 

[Disstevefan1]

This seems pretty reasonable. I think the distancing and capacity limits start getting dialed back first with masks going last. It could be gradual vs all at once. So maybe they remove distancing in queues and on rides with masks on but keep distancing in restaurants. If they get rid of distancing they can ramp up capacity. I think it will also be a gradual return of resorts and overall attendance. When the demand gets high enough then shows and entertainment come back. I think it also depends on how fast the airlines ramp up and overall travel. If demand isn’t there Disney isn‘t bringing back expensive shows and entertainment.

After reading your reply, the gradual approach is a good one. I also agree, masks last to go. We see in Asia no social distance with masks so it makes sense.

In my opinion, unless the world economy takes a dump, once everyone has access to the vaccine and air travel is back to pre pandemic freedoms, demand will come back (or exceed) what it was.

Never under estimate the pent up demand of the Disney fans out there!

 

[Patcheslee]

Disney on Ice is returning in January with enhanced safety precautions.
No word if that includes characters with masks or not.

 

[GoofGoof]

After reading your reply, the gradual approach is a good one. I also agree, masks last to go. We see in Asia no social distance with masks so it makes sense.

In my opinion, unless the world economy takes a dump, once everyone has access to the vaccine and air travel is back to pre pandemic freedoms, demand will come back (or exceed) what it was.

Never under estimate the pent up demand of the Disney fans out there!

In my own selfish fantasy world I’m hoping that the surge of pent up demand is exhausted in June/July into the first half of August and then when southern schools go back it drops down for when I arrive in the end of August .

I think distancing is the biggest factor preventing an increase in park capacity. It’s a chain reaction...If they boost ride capacity then they can boost park capacity and that hopefully leads to more resorts opening and that means overall demand is up which leads to more entertainment and shows.

 

[mmascari]

A question for you all that I haven't seen asked. So beg my pardon if this has been covered. If this emergency review board at the FDA was put together to quickly review the emergency vaccine request, what takes them 3 weeks to get together for the review. If people are getting sick and dying each day, why does it take 3 weeks to clear the calendar? Assuming approval, it will be about 6 weeks between the publication of the trial results and the first inoculation. Anyone but me take issue with that? Just seems to me they should have been meeting the following week.

I wonder the same thing. I assume they are taking the time to review the data before they meet. But it seems to me that they data should have been packaged by Pfizer (and their outside review board) and that it shouldn't take 3 weeks to review. There is only some much you can do with a data set and a skilled statistician wouldn't take that long to look through everything.

That's part of the difference. My understanding is the UK approval took the company's analysis and reviewed and signed off based on that analysis.

The US review starts at the raw data and does it's own analysis.

The independent board has received the data from the trial and they are currently reviewing. The board is made up of scientists who have the background to review and question the results. They have the time between submission by Pfizer and the meeting to review data, come up with questions and then ask those questions to the Pfizer scientists at the meeting. This isn’t just a rubber stamp, they are supposed to be thoroughly reviewing the data. I think the process is expedited to the extent it can be. Could they have met a week earlier? Maybe, but it wouldn‘t be ethical to just immediately approve. The UK approval is a week and a day earlier than the likely US approval so not a huge amount of time. Yes, a US citizen is dying every minute at this point so even cutting a week off could have potentially saved 10,000 people, but there has to be a balance between speed and a thorough review process.

Close, but not quite. The external (not FDA employees, and people who were not involved in the trials) advisory board doesn't have the data yet. There's a step in between where the FDA will review the raw data and create an analysis. This is sent to the external advisory board about a week before the meeting to give them a week to review the analysis before the meeting. I think we're still in that middle part where the FDA is processing all the raw data to create that analysis. The external reviewers will depend on the FDA analysis while the FDA depends on the raw data. I'm sure those people doing the analysis worked over Thanksgiving and the weekend, and probably long days too.

I wonder if they have the ability to reach out to Pfizer for additional data in this time period. I’m not a scientist so trying to put this in finance terms. When you have an audit the auditors spend a lot of time reviewing data provided by the client and there is a back and forth where the auditors ask questions or ask for additional data. It’s only after all of the data is compiled that the formal audit opinion is given. Maybe I’m way off on this.

In the old days, they would have sent a semi (or several) full of paper to the FDA with all the raw data on it. Now they do it electronically, but it's not any less information, probably more. For every trial participant, every manufacturing step, all the way from where the raw chemicals come from through every step in production, distribution, and trial patient. It's way more than just "did it work?". But, is it repeatable and consistent, and does it work, plus all the impacts. It doesn't help anyone if production batch B is different than A, and A worked but B doesn't. Or, if they both work but B had more side effects. Things that would mean batches A and B were not exactly the same.

I found this quote in article about the process. Not a lot of detail but it does give an idea of the magnitude of the review process...

"An agency spokesperson tells Axios, "The amount of data submitted to the FDA includes thousands of pages of technical information that must be divided up and reviewed by experts from different disciplines. Once the reviews by the various experts are completed, they are then integrated into an overall review.

Completion of these reviews involves such things as ensuring that the manufacturing process and the controls on manufacturing are appropriate, checking statistical analyses performed to ensure that they were done properly and doing additional analyses, as necessary, to look at the effect of the vaccine on subsets of individuals who might be at greater risk of adverse effects."

And, this is just for an EUA with a limited scope of the most at risk people likely to be approved to get it. Full approval for general availability to any random person is going to dig even deeper.

Lots of the analysis of drugs in general is weighing the risks vs the thing they're solving. The risk should be lower, much lower, from the drug than the alternative. Healthcare works and seniors in care facilities, the first to likely get approval, are at much higher risk from COVID which means there's more leeway. A perfectly healthy 15 year old with no other risk conditions needs a much higher bar that there's no risk. It's part of what makes vaccine approval so much stronger with less tolerance for impacts. We're giving it to someone who is currently healthy and do not want to change that. In comparison, a cancer drug could have lots of issues but the alternative is cancer kills you, there's lots of room for complications that are less bad than death.

 

[Kevin_W]

I wouldn't be surprised if all buffets everywhere never return to self service. I think COVID has made people think about how unsanitary they are with people touching serving utensils and the dropping them into the serving trays, etc.

I would hope that is true, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if they come back due to the profitability (as already discussed). I already tend not to eat buffets because the ratio of the price per amount I eat is poor (and I have low self-control, so I overeat at buffets). Having now thought more about the germ side will make me even more hesitant.

 

[Jrb1979]

After reading your reply, the gradual approach is a good one. I also agree, masks last to go. We see in Asia no social distance with masks so it makes sense.

In my opinion, unless the world economy takes a dump, once everyone has access to the vaccine and air travel is back to pre pandemic freedoms, demand will come back (or exceed) what it was.

Never under estimate the pent up demand of the Disney fans out there!

The world economy had already taken a dump. Look at all the layoffs, a vaccine is not going to fix that.

As far as pent up demand goes, I have kept hearing that since the reopened and it hasn't shown up yet. There is a reason resorts aren't being filled.

 

[Jrb1979]

In my own selfish fantasy world I’m hoping that the surge of pent up demand is exhausted in June/July into the first half of August and then when southern schools go back it drops down for when I arrive in the end of August .

I think distancing is the biggest factor preventing an increase in park capacity. It’s a chain reaction...If they boost ride capacity then they can boost park capacity and that hopefully leads to more resorts opening and that means overall demand is up which leads to more entertainment and shows.

I think you will be fine for August. From everything I have heard there is a lot availability right now. Even between Christmas and NYE, lots of availability.

 

[DisneyCane]

The world economy had already taken a dump. Look at all the layoffs, a vaccine is not going to fix that.

As far as pent up demand goes, I have kept hearing that since the reopened and it hasn't shown up yet. There is a reason resorts aren't being filled.

I think the resorts not being filled has more to do with international travel restrictions and domestic quarantine orders after travel than demand.