Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m not assuming anything about the vulnerable population. If you simply look at death rates around the world, it’s nowhere near 60%. Even knowing it might not be infecting the vulnerable population as much thats a ridiculous number.

If businesses close because of a lack of business, that’s very different from forcing them to close to protect a small % of the population that could otherwise isolate in exactly the same way they would as if everything was forced to close.

You guys keep asking “how it would work”. It’s not a mystery. The groups that need to avoid the public because they’re vulnerable or support a vulnerable family member isolate in the same exact way they would if the government tells everyone to stay home. Then we deal with the impacts that come from that. Borrowing 3 trillion dollars for everyone to stay home is ridiculous.

I love when an “argument” is portrayed in terms of “you guys”....the international symbol that it’s not a discussion at all.

 

[Capsin4]

Where is everyone isolating? I don’t think there is a single state with a full stay at home order right now let alone a full lockdown (which we never had anywhere in this country). I think the disconnect is you are equating any restrictions on the people who are not high risk as forcing them to isolate. It’s not black and white. The middle ground is everyone follows sensible restrictions, the vast majority of the economy stays open and nobody has to be locked away for months or years. That means some people who are not afraid of a virus or feel they should be allowed to take a risk are restricted from doing every single thing they want. For the greater good I’m OK with that.

If you read what I’ve posted in this thread recently, I’ve said very clearly that it doesn’t mean we don’t have restrictions.

I don’t know what you have and haven’t so it’s understandable.

 

[GoofGoof]

You guys keep asking “how it would work”. It’s not a mystery. The groups that need to avoid the public because they’re vulnerable or support a vulnerable family member isolate in the same exact way they would if the government tells everyone to stay home.

You keep saying this, but I’ll ask again, where is the government asking everyone to fully isolate? No place in the country has any such order and they never have. Right now if indoor dining is banned somewhere or gyms close that’s a far cry from making everyone isolate.

What if a doctor, nurse, firefighter, grocery store clerk, teacher are in the high risk group? They isolate even though they are essential? What if 10 teachers in my kid’s school are? The school shuts down. When teachers are out now we can’t find subs so taking that many teachers out of service isn‘t going to work. Same goes for nurses. If we isolated every nurse who lived with a high risk person there would be shortages or nurses. Just a few quick examples. It’s not as easy as you think. You have created a false equivalency around current restrictions and isolating completely.

 

[Polkadotdress]

Thank god...that “team” really needs some new players...they barely have enough to still field a squad at this point.



Stop it with your reality/truth based approach!



But that is somebody else’s “freedom”...I don’t care as long as you keep your dirty hands off “ma freedom”



In two sentences or less...describe how you keep the spreaders from any potential contact with “vulnerable populations” (which can’t be defined) in the United States??

I’ll wait.

I think there is an erroneous assumption from those who believe in this line of thinking that vulnerable/high-risk people are only elderly, white-haired people in care homes. As you well know, and articulated above that they can’t be clearly identified, that they span all ages, and even look like me: a vivacious middle-aged Mom.

 

[Capsin4]

You keep saying this, but I’ll ask again, where is the government asking everyone to fully isolate? No place in the country has any such order and they never have. Right now if indoor dining is banned somewhere or gyms close that’s a far cry from making everyone isolate.

What if a doctor, nurse, firefighter, grocery store clerk, teacher are in the high risk group? They isolate even though they are essential? What if 10 teachers in my kid’s school are? The school shuts down. When teachers are out now we can’t find subs so taking that many teachers out of service isn‘t going to work. Same goes for nurses. If we isolated every nurse who lived with a high risk person there would be shortages or nurses. Just a few quick examples. It’s not as easy as you think. You have created a false equivalency around current restrictions and isolating completely.

No not really. I originally posted in support of someone else that was being attacked for suggesting we could isolate the vulnerable population.

I mentioned this was preferable to a total shutdown hyperbolically and attacks on that logic is what I’ve been responding to. Never mind we’ve come close to that in the past and some localities are returning to to for short duration. Also never mind that certain politicians aren’t opposed to it on a large scale.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

You keep saying this, but I’ll ask again, where is the government asking everyone to fully isolate? No place in the country has any such order and they never have. Right now if indoor dining is banned somewhere or gyms close that’s a far cry from making everyone isolate.

What if a doctor, nurse, firefighter, grocery store clerk, teacher are in the high risk group? They isolate even though they are essential? What if 10 teachers in my kid’s school are? The school shuts down. When teachers are out now we can’t find subs so taking that many teachers out of service isn‘t going to work. Same goes for nurses. If we isolated every nurse who lived with a high risk person there would be shortages or nurses. Just a few quick examples. It’s not as easy as you think. You have created a false equivalency around current restrictions and isolating completely.

Easiest thing is to say..” just isolate them”. The “ them” is such a big group and there’s never a answer how to do it. Need to come with a plan.. then explain how. Not just better for businesses or our economy. Not a answer.

 

[danlb_2000]

I think there is an erroneous assumption from those who believe in this line of thinking that vulnerable/high-risk people are only elderly, white-haired people in care homes. As you well know, and articulated above that they can’t be clearly identified, that they span all ages, and even look like me: a vivacious middle-aged Mom.

Yeah, even if you look at just age, where do you draw the line. The "65 and over" range get's thrown around alot, but it's not a hard line, chance of death increases with age so where is the cutoff.

 

[GoofGoof]

No not really. I originally posted in support of someone else that was being attacked for suggesting we could isolate the vulnerable population.

I mentioned this was preferable to a total shutdown hyperbolically and attacks on that logic is what I’ve been responding to. Never mind we’ve come close to that in the past and some localities are returning to to for short duration. Also never mind that certain politicians aren’t opposed to it on a large scale.

You are certainly entitled to an opinion, I’m just pointing out that simply saying isolate the high risk is way harder than it sounds. I’m not attacking anyone either. I’m open to alternate plans, clearly the one we have isn’t being followed well, I just want to know how the logistics would work. First you have to define high risk. Based on the list of conditions that makes someone high risk it’s over half the population, that’s a major hurdle. For the sake of the economy how do businesses function when half the population isn’t part of the economy anymore? If the high risk group was really a very small percentage of the population that might be possible but it’s just not.

 

[DCBaker]

Numbers are out - there were 94 new reported deaths. Deaths in Florida have now crossed 18k at 18,085.

 

[danlb_2000]

The same thing that happens when we shut everything down. The impact is just less widespread. Not sure why this is difficult.

The amount of impact would be dependent on how many people are in your "high risk" group. If we assume the government will help in either scenario, being laid off or being isolated, then we have to look at what would cost less. If one person in a family of four gets laid off, the remaining three can still help support the one who was laid off. If one person has to be isolated, then they need to removed from the home and sent to an isolation facility where the government now has to provide them with everything. So it could be argued that it is cheaper to help people with unemployment then to pay to isolate them.

 

[danlb_2000]

You are certainly entitled to an opinion, I’m just pointing out that simply saying isolate the high risk is way harder than it sounds. I’m not attacking anyone either. I’m open to alternate plans, clearly the one we have isn’t being followed well, I just want to know how the logistics would work. First you have to define high risk. Based on the list of conditions that makes someone high risk it’s over half the population, that’s a major hurdle. For the sake of the economy how do businesses function when half the population isn’t part of the economy anymore? If the high risk group was really a very small percentage of the population that might be possible but it’s just not.

... and if people aren't complying with the current plans, what makes us think they will comply with isolation?

 

[Heppenheimer]

I’m not assuming anything about the vulnerable population. If you simply look at death rates around the world, it’s nowhere near 60%. Even knowing it might not be infecting the vulnerable population as much thats a ridiculous number.

If businesses close because of a lack of business, that’s very different from forcing them to close to protect a small % of the population that could otherwise isolate in exactly the same way they would as if everything was forced to close.

You guys keep asking “how it would work”. It’s not a mystery. The groups that need to avoid the public because they’re vulnerable or support a vulnerable family member isolate in the same exact way they would if the government tells everyone to stay home. Then we deal with the impacts that come from that. Borrowing 3 trillion dollars for everyone to stay home is ridiculous.

60% of the population has risk factors that put them at a higher risk of death or severe illness. That in no way implies that 60% of the population will endure a severe illness or death, but a priori, there is no way to determine who amongst this population will succumb.

And as others have noted, even if you could somehow isolate 60% of the population and endure the economic devastation this would inflict, this wouldn't even account for all the other people that this 60% normally comes into contact with on a daily basis.

 

[Kevin_W]

No not really. I originally posted in support of someone else that was being attacked for suggesting we could isolate the vulnerable population.

We've tried to do that. In my area, nursing homes have been in near total lock down for 6 months - residents can't have visitors and can't leave (at significant mental health toll). In spite of this, 52% of our state's deaths have come from long term facilities. (I suppose the staff still brings it in as there has been a high case rate among staff.)

 

[Flugell]

Please could someone explain why non Florida deaths keep increasing. What is a Non Florida resident and why are they allowed into Florida at the present time? From the U.K. so please excuse my ignorance!

 

[GoofGoof]

Please could someone explain why non Florida deaths keep increasing. What is a Non Florida resident and why are they allowed into Florida at the present time? From the U.K. so please excuse my ignorance!

Snow birds? There are a lot of people who have 2nd homes in FL. Particularly from the Northern parts of the US where it snows in the winter. Many retirees spend winters in FL and summers up north where it doesn’t get as hot as the surface of the sun. The other area could be seasonal or migrant workers. If workers are brought in seasonally to pick fruit or work in hotels. Probably more on the agricultural side with the slow down in travel.

 

[Horizons '83]

Please could someone explain why non Florida deaths keep increasing. What is a Non Florida resident and why are they allowed into Florida at the present time? From the U.K. so please excuse my ignorance!

Non-Florida meaning they could have come from any state whether on business/holiday, either contracted it prior to entering the state or while in the state but resides elsewhere. Florida allows any resident to enter their state at this time.

 

[GoofGoof]

Non-Florida meaning they could have come from any state whether on business/holiday, either contracted it prior to entering the state or while in the state but resides elsewhere. Florida allows any resident to enter their state at this time.

I’m hoping none of them are people who showed up for at trip to WDW and ended up on that list.

 

[Flugell]

Thanks one and all! It’s been confusing me for weeks!

 

[Heppenheimer]

I still wonder why Florida includes that non-resident caveat. I don't routinely browse the stats for all 50 states, but on the 5 or so I regularly check, only Florida makes the distinction between resident and non-resident deaths.

 

[Kevin_W]

I still wonder why Florida includes that non-resident caveat. I don't routinely browse the stats for all 50 states, but on the 5 or so I regularly check, only Florida makes the distinction between resident and non-resident deaths.

I'd guess Florida has many more non-residents than most other states.