Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[DisneyCane]

You and I will never agree on this.

Forget about public health, if we could have done a better job keeping cases down that would have been better for the economy overall. The virus wasn’t going to be completely gone and it’s not a one and done thing either. This myth that we could have a lockdown and then the virus would be gone is just that, a myth. The vast majority of the economy can and has been open with Covid restrictions in place (masks, distancing and limits on group size). A small subset of the economy can’t function. So by letting bars be open to “stay in business” and allowing the virus to spread uncontrolled that resulted in a negative impact to the rest of the economy. Less people ate in restaurants (even outdoor) less people shopped places and certainly less people went to tourist spots like WDW. So yes, Joe’s pub was open and making some money but the overall economy suffered. WDW is exhibit A and if you don’t believe me go back and look at the earnings transcripts and see TWDC chief executives tell you their results at WDW were disappointing due to the surge in cases in FL.

It's not just bars. The restaurant industry can't survive at 50% or less capacity. Neither of us can be proven right but I think that the protocols and elimination of entertainment elements has more to do with keeping crowds away than the virus fear. That combined with quarantine requirements in northeast states and international travel bans. Basically, I believe that WDW attendance is held back by intentional acts by the "powers that be" moreso than fear of going to WDW due to the virus.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I didn't say you made that claim. You said something to the effect of "we shouldn't have gotten to where it is vaccine or bust." I was asking for a plan of how that could be accomplished without severe economic damage (worse than has happened). Somebody else mentioned masks as the solution and I did not intend to attribute that to you.

I still believe that a really aggressive testing and isolation of those exposed on a national level was the smart path...it would have given science time to work the problem.

We’ll never know. Current projections are looking at 100K cases by January and 2,000 deaths a day.

And I bet a few cowards will have quit...my “projection”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's not just bars. The restaurant industry can't survive at 50% or less capacity. Neither of us can be proven right but I think that the protocols and elimination of entertainment elements has more to do with keeping crowds away than the virus fear. That combined with quarantine requirements in northeast states and international travel bans. Basically, I believe that WDW attendance is held back by intentional acts by the "powers that be" moreso than fear of going to WDW due to the virus.

Restaurants are in trouble...because their model doesn’t allow for any disruption.

So open them back up...they still won’t be filled no matter what governors say because of the virus control failures.

So they go out of business.

Or you pay them with public money to stay closed or fail.

What is your plan? Everyone “buck up” and go sit on top of each other at Buffalo Wild Wings?

The die is cast...mostly by mismanagement.

And that doesn’t even address money...which is another problem being misinterpreted.

 

[DisneyCane]

I really don't see the big deal with masks and social distancing to get the economy going. The problem I keep seeing is that too many think it's a political thing.

It's not the masks and social distancing I have an issue with. It's the restrictions and quarantine requirements. For the record, I thought the quarantine that Desantis put in place was just as illegal and stupid as the ones in place now by the northeast states. It isn't very likely that a given individual is infected even if they've been to the hottest spot in a hot spot.

 

[DisneyCane]

Restaurants are in trouble...because their model doesn’t allow for any disruption.

So open them back up...they still won’t be filled no matter what governors say because of the virus control failures.

So they go out of business.

Or you pay them with public money to stay closed or fail.

What is your plan? Everyone “buck up” and go sit on top of each other at Buffalo Wild Wings?

The die is cast...mostly by mismanagement.

And that doesn’t even address money...which is another problem being misinterpreted.

Restaurants around me, especially those who cater to a younger demographic are quite busy now and filling to the reduced capacity and having waits on the weekend.

I say it should be up to the business to choose to be open and customers to choose if they want to go there.

We know who is most vulnerable and they need to take responsibility to protect themselves. Younger residents of multi generational households need to take it upon themselves to protect the elders.

 

[JoeCamel]

It's not the masks and social distancing I have an issue with. It's the restrictions and quarantine requirements. For the record, I thought the quarantine that Desantis put in place was just as illegal and stupid as the ones in place now by the northeast states. It isn't very likely that a given individual is infected even if they've been to the hottest spot in a hot spot.

So if there is good mask and distancing there is no need for quarantines and restrictions
Florida has not restrictions on restaurants for capacity

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's not the masks and social distancing I have an issue with. It's the restrictions and quarantine requirements. For the record, I thought the quarantine that Desantis put in place was just as illegal and stupid as the ones in place now by the northeast states. It isn't very likely that a given individual is infected even if they've been to the hottest spot in a hot spot.

There is absolutely nothing “illegal” about quarantines executed through proper channels for public Health. Every country on earth does the same thing.

There is no “right” to chase money. Check the parchment...it’s not there...it never was.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I lived through a lot of different administrations and I’ve never seen a balanced rudder, but I give you credit for being optimistic.

I have.

For the record, I thought the quarantine that Desantis put in place was just as illegal and stupid as the ones in place now by the northeast states.

For the record. Leaders around the world are having to make tough decisions because people are dying by the thousands every day. They are trying to save lives. Sorry that is such an inconvenience to you.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

There is absolutely nothing “illegal” about quarantines executed through proper channels for public Health. Every country on earth does the same thing.

There is no “right” to chase money. Check the parchment...it’s not there...it never was.

Disagree

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Restaurants around me, especially those who cater to a younger demographic are quite busy now and filling to the reduced capacity and having waits on the weekend.

I say it should be up to the business to choose to be open and customers to choose if they want to go there.

We know who is most vulnerable and they need to take responsibility to protect themselves. Younger residents of multi generational households need to take it upon themselves to protect the elders.

Same stupid stuff...there is no “vulnerable” and “non-vulnerable” because of asymptomatic spread.

Have you ever considered that people aren’t that bright where you live? There should be an app for that...”zip code dummy tracker”

I could patent that

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

Restaurants around me, especially those who cater to a younger demographic are quite busy now and filling to the reduced capacity and having waits on the weekend.

I say it should be up to the business to choose to be open and customers to choose if they want to go there.

We know who is most vulnerable and they need to take responsibility to protect themselves. Younger residents of multi generational households need to take it upon themselves to protect the elders.

Reserve the right to choose!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Reserve the right to choose!

But that isn’t a right...that’s the B of it.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

But that isn’t a right...that’s the B of it.

John Locke...go get sum freedom.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I say it should be up to the business to choose to be open and customers to choose if they want to go there.

It’s never up to a business how many people they can serve at a time. There is always a max capacity in a restaurant or theatre. That is based on safety.

Right now, the max capacity is lowered because of safety.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

It’s never up to a business how many people they can serve at a time. There is always a max capacity in a restaurant or theatre. That is based on safety.

Right now, the max capacity is lowered because of safety.

Not the same thing...capacity is another argument from the ability to serve.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's not just bars. The restaurant industry can't survive at 50% or less capacity. Neither of us can be proven right but I think that the protocols and elimination of entertainment elements has more to do with keeping crowds away than the virus fear. That combined with quarantine requirements in northeast states and international travel bans. Basically, I believe that WDW attendance is held back by intentional acts by the "powers that be" moreso than fear of going to WDW due to the virus.

....or there‘s a worldwide pandemic and people in large numbers just aren‘t willing to spend large amounts of time in crowded public places while cases surge. The restaurant industry isn’t being helped by widespread community spread. It’s way too oversimplified to assume there’s only 2 options, restrictions and no restrictions and the restriction option protects people at the expense of the economy while the no restrictions option protects the economy at the expense of health. There’s a middle ground. For example, keep bars closed, help out bar owners. Keep indoor, large group venues closed and help out those whose business is adversely impacted. The rest of the economy could be open. There are some good examples around the world of places where they have gotten the virus under control and the economy is way more open and doing way better than here. New Zealand being the most extreme example. They had several very long runs with great economic success.

On travel quarantines you are way off. A governor has to do what it takes to keep his state safe and open. Letting people travel to hot spots to patronize businesses there and then come back and spread the virus while your own businesses are closed makes no sense. They knew this summer from contact tracing efforts a large number of cases were coming from travel. It’s not a conspiracy theory it’s just sound policy for someone looking to follow a plan. WDW is suffering because of Covid. That’s a fact. If every state and the company itself removed all Covid restrictions they wouldn’t be back to anything close to normal economically. It’s a pipe dream based too much on assuming everyone thinks like you. Various polling has been done to show the general public prefers the restrictions to keep them safe. WDW‘s issues are caused by Covid not artificial restrictions.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Not the same thing...capacity is another argument from the ability to serve.

Read what I was replying to before you reply with something irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

Read what I was replying to before you reply with something irrelevant to the discussion.

I did and that’s why I said it

 

[hopemax]

65,000 cases. Its Sunday.

Please everyone, I'm not kidding when I say buckle up. Order more sanitizer, masks, gloves, get your TP stock ready, and please be safe.

Salt Lake City hospitals are warning about rationing ICU care. And a large concern is not having enough nurses and doctors. This article also explains why seeing things like "only 75% ICU beds are occupied" is misleading on how many spaces are actually remaining, and how opening a field hospital can only help so much.

Utahâs hospitals prepare to ration care as a record number of coronavirus patients flood their ICUs

<b>Editor’s note:</b> <i>The Salt Lake Tribune is providing free access to critical stories about the coronavirus. Sign up for </i><a href="https://sltrib.formstack.com/forms/topstories"><i>our Top Stories newsletter</i></a><i>, sent to your inbox every weekday morning. To support journalism...

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We shopped this weekend as if we weren't going out for awhile. Part of that was from the snowstorm that arrived last night, but part of it is getting back into the mindset that if everyone else is going to be so casual about their role in public health, our best option is to stay home.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's not the masks and social distancing I have an issue with. It's the restrictions and quarantine requirements. For the record, I thought the quarantine that Desantis put in place was just as illegal and stupid as the ones in place now by the northeast states. It isn't very likely that a given individual is infected even if they've been to the hottest spot in a hot spot.

Simply not true. I know you are going to believe what you want, but in areas this summer that had much lower case counts it was actually more possible to do some contact tracing in an effective manner and there was absolutely a connection to travel to hot spots. One county near me in PA was able to trace 50% of their new cases in a week to out of state travel primarily to Myrtle Beach, FL and TX. This was when bars in PA were still closed and young people were grabbing cheap flights to go South to party. Whether you choose to believe it or not it absolutely was happening.