Politics Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

This thread contains political discussion related to the original thread topic

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Not a single person here has posited that masks would STOP virus spread. Everyone here has consistently been using words like reduce, limit, etc.
And the question I posed to @Sirwalterraleigh , to which you replied with "wearing masks," was to share his brilliant plan of how the spread would be stopped without a vaccine because he was lamenting that we got to a "vaccine or bust" scenario to stop the virus.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
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Not a single person here has posited that masks would STOP virus spread. Everyone here has consistently been using words like reduce, limit, etc.
Shh, shh, shh... don't take away his flogging of the straw man lest he beats the dead horse again.
 

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
Thats the problem though. Your answer is if something doesn’t result in zero cases it doesn‘t work. If people followed what was required, not just masks but everything, the cases could be slowed a lot more which would have been great for the economy. Woulda, shoulda, coulda is a pointless discussion. We didn’t and now the vaccine is the only hope.
The vaccine was always the only hope to reach an acceptable level of cases/deaths without long term, economically crippling and freedom reducing measures. Nothing short term would have long lasting effect because the virus just starts spreading again as soon as you go back to normal.

Let's say you did something in Florida for two months that resulted in reaching 100 cases per day. Now after this success in fighting the virus you start opening up again and removing restrictions. Those 100 cases per day will grow until you are back to where you are started or even higher. Due to the asymptomatic/presymptomatic spread, even if you get to that low level, testing and contact tracing won't keep it suppressed.

Nothing is going to allow a return to normal except herd immunity. Nobody would accept herd immunity reached naturally due to the high death toll so the only way to reach it is with a vaccine and that has been true since day 1.
 

rowrbazzle

Well-Known Member
We will never actually know if masks can stop the spread because not enough people will ever comply.

Interestingly enough, many of the European countries facing drastic spikes are facing them after letting up on mask requirements.
I hadn't heard that about the changing requirements. I searched (quickly) and could only find mention of Belgium planning to do it, but then it looks like they changed their mind. What European countries have been letting up on mask requirements?
 

oceanbreeze77

Well-Known Member
I hadn't heard that about the changing requirements. I searched (quickly) and could only find mention of Belgium planning to do it, but then it looks like they changed their mind. What European countries have been letting up on mask requirements?
I know in Spain and France, enforcement of masks was not being help up as strictly as they were before. Throughout the summer, mask requirements became more regional than national. Now over the last three months, we see them going back to stricter rules alongside the record increases.
 
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rowrbazzle

Well-Known Member
I know in Spain and France, enforcement of masks was not being help up as strictly as they were before. Throughout the summer, mask requirements become more regional than national. Now over the last three months, we see them going back to stricter rules alongside the record increases.
Ah, okay. I wasn't going back nearly that far in my searches. I would think three months would've been plenty of time to have cases turn around. From the research I've seen it's usually a matter of weeks with masks. I'm wondering if it's more about people just not being as vigilant when they're not in public. That seems to be driving a lot of the cases in the US.
 

Chip Chipperson

Well-Known Member
Thats the problem though. Your answer is if something doesn’t result in zero cases it doesn‘t work. If people followed what was required, not just masks but everything, the cases could be slowed a lot more which would have been great for the economy. Woulda, shoulda, coulda is a pointless discussion. We didn’t and now the vaccine is the only hope.

It's bizarre to me that the same people complaining about what shutdowns and restrictions have done to the economy also tend to be the same people arguing against masks as if there's no correlation between the two things at all. If people didn't resist or outright refuse to wear a mask in public then there would be fewer cases, which would likely mean restrictions could be eased on things like restaurant capacity for indoor dining.
 

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Ah, okay. I wasn't going back nearly that far in my searches. I would think three months would've been plenty of time to have cases turn around. From the research I've seen it's usually a matter of weeks with masks. I'm wondering if it's more about people just not being as vigilant when they're not in public. That seems to be driving a lot of the cases in the US.
Maybe. I know here what's driving the cases is family gatherings due to lack of mask wearing. IMO they need to not just focus on mask wearing and drilling into people's heads if you don't feel good at all stay home. Doesn't matter if it's a headache or sniffles.

One thing to add is its so frustrating to see so many angry at anything mandated by the government.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Europe is in a right mess now. I hope it doesn’t come your way too.
America: Hold my beer hat...

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MaryJaneP

Well-Known Member
I hope someone will tell me it’s all okay and is actually getting better over there.

I’m not sure this link will work. Try it.

Europe's streets empty... again https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54681420
Someone will tell you that. They will also tell you the virus will be gone soon, that masks don't work, and that this whole thing is a hoax, among their many closeted responses to deny genuine health and safety concerns. 2020
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I hope someone will tell me it’s all okay and is actually getting better over there.

I’m not sure this link will work. Try it.

Europe's streets empty... again https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54681420

Someone will tell you that. They will also tell you the virus will be gone soon, that masks don't work, and that this whole thing is a hoax, among their many closeted responses to deny genuine health and safety concerns. 2020
All this and more denial is conveniently located in the Disneyland forum.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The vaccine was always the only hope to reach an acceptable level of cases/deaths without long term, economically crippling and freedom reducing measures. Nothing short term would have long lasting effect because the virus just starts spreading again as soon as you go back to normal.

Let's say you did something in Florida for two months that resulted in reaching 100 cases per day. Now after this success in fighting the virus you start opening up again and removing restrictions. Those 100 cases per day will grow until you are back to where you are started or even higher. Due to the asymptomatic/presymptomatic spread, even if you get to that low level, testing and contact tracing won't keep it suppressed.

Nothing is going to allow a return to normal except herd immunity. Nobody would accept herd immunity reached naturally due to the high death toll so the only way to reach it is with a vaccine and that has been true since day 1.
You and I will never agree on this.

Forget about public health, if we could have done a better job keeping cases down that would have been better for the economy overall. The virus wasn’t going to be completely gone and it’s not a one and done thing either. This myth that we could have a lockdown and then the virus would be gone is just that, a myth. The vast majority of the economy can and has been open with Covid restrictions in place (masks, distancing and limits on group size). A small subset of the economy can’t function. So by letting bars be open to “stay in business” and allowing the virus to spread uncontrolled that resulted in a negative impact to the rest of the economy. Less people ate in restaurants (even outdoor) less people shopped places and certainly less people went to tourist spots like WDW. So yes, Joe’s pub was open and making some money but the overall economy suffered. WDW is exhibit A and if you don’t believe me go back and look at the earnings transcripts and see TWDC chief executives tell you their results at WDW were disappointing due to the surge in cases in FL.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
It's bizarre to me that the same people complaining about what shutdowns and restrictions have done to the economy also tend to be the same people arguing against masks as if there's no correlation between the two things at all. If people didn't resist or outright refuse to wear a mask in public then there would be fewer cases, which would likely mean restrictions could be eased on things like restaurant capacity for indoor dining.
Yes, masks helped allow a place like WDW to be open safely but yet there’s some that will still rail on about them. That’s politically driven mostly and should “clear up” some in about 10 days.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
And the question I posed to @Sirwalterraleigh , to which you replied with "wearing masks," was to share his brilliant plan of how the spread would be stopped without a vaccine because he was lamenting that we got to a "vaccine or bust" scenario to stop the virus.

‘‘Twas not...

I don’t make any such claims. Vaccines *** not fool proof and those that immediate said “it’s the only way” we’re frankly unqualified clowns with ulterior motives.

Everyone should have long gotten “in line” and done all the easy precautions...the precious “opening” would be in better shape...then viable vaccines would make everything better.

“Shut up and do it”...basically. Quite simple.
 

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