Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[lazyboy97o]

Umm, I never said conspiracy. I said follow the money. If you provide an incentive for something it most likely will be done. And no, I'm not saying the doctor is lying. What I'm saying is that the truth is being obscured since maybe the patient didn't die as a result of COVID but had a COVID infection that was then listed on the death certificate and included in a death FROM COVID.

Again, it doesn't have to be a conspiracy but when you have a lot of half truths being reported to the public it makes it hard to accept anything that is being reported. As a society we should be concerned about this.

And no where did I mention that this pandemic is not severe. As I mentioned previously I have had COVID and have long term effects. Nothing that I can't live through but if it never resolves I will be uncomfortable the rest of my life.

You can question data and still think the pandemic is real. Stop trying to push your narrative of conspiracy theories and COVID deniers. It isn't a good look.

Just because you don’t use a word doesn’t mean it is not what you are describing.

There is no money to follow. Doctors do not get paid based on how they classify deaths.

A doctor adding a disease to a cause of death without cause is lying and illegal. Doing so for additional funds is fraud.

What you describe is “a secret agreement” between doctors and their employers “to do an unlawful or wrongful act” so that the hospital is paid more.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

Just because you don’t use a word doesn’t mean it is not what you are describing.

There is no money to follow. Doctors do not get paid based on how they classify deaths.

A doctor adding a disease to a cause of death without cause is lying and illegal. Doing so for additional funds is fraud.

What you describe is “a secret agreement” between doctors and their employers “to do an unlawful or wrongful act” so that the hospital is paid more.

This is interesting though:

According to the US Department of Health and Human Services [HHS] which oversees the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, under the federal coronavirus aid relief bill known as the CARES Act, hospitals get an extra 20% in Medicare reimbursements on top of traditional rates due to the public health emergency.
That's for COVID-19 related admissions, which can include deaths.

I'm not saying hospitals are inflating numbers, but you can't deny that their is a financial gain for them to do so, in some ways. I maintain my stance of neutrality. I am not a Dr. and I don't know enough about everything going to to say definitely one way or another. I DO though like to research, and try to come to conclusions by investigating both sides of any issue.

 

[mmascari]

The University of Miami isn't operating as a bubble. The testing includes both students living on campus and those who don't. They are also testing all faculty and staff, almost all of which live off campus.

It's not an isolated bubble, otherwise they would be able to drive it completely away. But, it's not the same as looking at the entire county.

Yes, faculty and staff live off campus. Both them and students probably also shop and do other off campus activities too. They may even have family or other frequent contacts that are not part of the bi weekly testing. All of them vectors for infection that are outside the testing program.

Knowledge about university spread still isn't the same as the entire county.

The University of Miami is a subset of the population of Miami-Dade County. The frequent testing of this population will find positive cases faster and isolate them, than the rate cases will be found and isolated in the rest of Miami-Dade County.

It still stands that the subset has more information about the spread and is able to take better actions within it's subset than the entire county. That's what the different positivity numbers tell us. The university has a better understanding and can take better action on spread than the county as a whole. All the extra data points don't mean the county number is wrong or misleading.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is interesting though:

According to the US Department of Health and Human Services [HHS] which oversees the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, under the federal coronavirus aid relief bill known as the CARES Act, hospitals get an extra 20% in Medicare reimbursements on top of traditional rates due to the public health emergency.
That's for COVID-19 related admissions, which can include deaths.

I'm not saying hospitals are inflating numbers, but you can't deny that their is a financial gain for them to do so, in some ways. I maintain my stance of neutrality. I am not a Dr. and I don't know enough about everything going to to say definitely one way or another. I DO though like to research, and try to come to conclusions by investigating both sides of any issue.

Once again, hospitals do not determine cause of death. That is done by doctors who are not paid based on how a patient died. So what is the doctor getting for their fraud? Hospitals also have a financial incentive to say a person received surgery when they only received Tylenol, but they don’t because doing so is illegal and systematically doing so would require a large number of people who do not benefit to participate in “a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act.”

 

[Chip Chipperson]

This is interesting though:

According to the US Department of Health and Human Services [HHS] which oversees the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, under the federal coronavirus aid relief bill known as the CARES Act, hospitals get an extra 20% in Medicare reimbursements on top of traditional rates due to the public health emergency.
That's for COVID-19 related admissions, which can include deaths.

I'm not saying hospitals are inflating numbers, but you can't deny that their is a financial gain for them to do so, in some ways. I maintain my stance of neutrality. I am not a Dr. and I don't know enough about everything going to to say definitely one way or another. I DO though like to research, and try to come to conclusions by investigating both sides of any issue.

Right, but that's ONLY for people covered by Medicare, not all patients covered by any insurance carrier - and Medicare fraud would be a huge problem for any doctors and hospitals caught engaging in such behavior. It also doesn't differentiate between patients treated and released and patients who die, so there's no incentive for hospitals to falsely attribute a death to COVID-19 - especially given the steep criminal charges those involved would face if caught.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Once again, hospitals do not determine cause of death. That is done by doctors who are not paid based on how a patient died. So what is the doctor getting for their fraud? Hospitals also have a financial incentive to say a person received surgery when they only received Tylenol, but they don’t because doing so is illegal and systematically doing so would require a large number of people who do not benefit to participate in “a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act.”

And in addition to this, Medicare, Medicaid and commercial insurance can and do audit when they suspect fraud. A physician caught committing fraud can kiss their career goodbye.

Once again, there is simply no motivation for the actual individuals who would need to commit the fraud to inflate the numbers. And because a hospital that's taking care of a large number of COVID-19 cases can't perform elective procedures, which are the real money makers, there is a very strong financial motivation for hospitals themselves to keep their COVID-19 numbers as low as possible. Any higher compensation they get from COVID cases is more than wiped out by loss of income from procedures and the increased cost of care due to all the need for isolation and PPE.

 

[jmp85]

What's the variability in excess deaths look like from year to year? Standard Deviation? Never dug deep on this, but off the top of my head I've never loved the idea of the excess deaths measurement.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Belgium and Netherlands have closed bars and restaurants.

 

[DisneyCane]

Once again, hospitals do not determine cause of death. That is done by doctors who are not paid based on how a patient died. So what is the doctor getting for their fraud? Hospitals also have a financial incentive to say a person received surgery when they only received Tylenol, but they don’t because doing so is illegal and systematically doing so would require a large number of people who do not benefit to participate in “a secret agreement to do an unlawful or wrongful act.”

Doctors get paid based on what they are treating. The same financial incentives to treat a "COVID patient" exist for them that exist for the hospitals.

 

[Dan Deesnee]

Doctors get paid based on what they are treating. The same financial incentives to treat a "COVID patient" exist for them that exist for the hospitals.

I know doctors can get paid more for pushing certain brands of prescription medicine, etc.

But I can't find any evidence for what you're claiming.

 

[Heppenheimer]

Doctors get paid based on what they are treating. The same financial incentives to treat a "COVID patient" exist for them that exist for the hospitals.

No, they either get paid a set salary if they're directly employed by the hospital, or if they're in private practice with admitting privileges, they get paid based on the number of patients they take care of in the hospital and how complex the care of each one is. The diagnosis makes no difference.

 

[MaryJaneP]

If we are to follow the money, it seems to end whenever the patient expires. Such prevaricators.

 

[Parker in NYC]

I know doctors can get paid more for pushing certain brands of prescription medicine, etc.

But I can't find any evidence for what you're claiming.

Neither can I. @DisneyCane, care to share?

 

[DisneyCane]

No, they either get paid a set salary if they're directly employed by the hospital, or if they're in private practice with admitting privileges, they get paid based on the number of patients they take care of in the hospital and how complex the care of each one is. The diagnosis makes no difference.

If they are directly employed by the hospital it is in their best interest for the hospital to bring in a steady revenue stream. The diagnosis doesn't normally matter for private practice billing but it does with COVID.

 

[Heppenheimer]

If they are directly employed by the hospital it is in their best interest for the hospital to bring in a steady revenue stream. The diagnosis doesn't normally matter for private practice billing but it does with COVID.

Then the best interests of the hospital is to have no COVID cases, because they make far more money on the elective procedures which can't happen if the hospital is overloaded with a highly infectious disease.

And once again... deliberately falsifying a medical record, which is what would need to happen if these COVID numbers are actually artificially inflated, is criminal fraud.

 

[DCBaker]

COVID updates from the Florida Department of Health could become less frequent.

A spokesperson for Governor Ron DeSantis told CBS12 News that instead of daily reports, the administration is considering publishing the data anywhere from every other day, to once a week.

"It is something that has been raised as we move to phase 3," said spokesman Fred Piccolo. "However, no decision has been made and none is imminent."

https://cbs12.com/news/local/desantis-administration-considers-scaling-back-covid-reporting

 

[GoofGoof]

I know doctors can get paid more for pushing certain brands of prescription medicine, etc.

But I can't find any evidence for what you're claiming.

Before they changed the rules doctors would get some pretty solid perks from drug reps. I had a friend who was a pharmacist and got a job doing sales for a big pharma company and most of his job was taking doctors out to have a good time. He got super boxes for sports and concerts, lavish meals out, numerous bar tabs, even some adult entertainment spend. Then they changed the rules and disallowed most of that stuff. His job became going to doctor’s offices and hospitals and brining takeout food for the staff and doctors. He went from partying and good times to pizza and Chinese Food delivery guy. He’s back working at a regular pharmacy now.

As far as the other stuff, I agree there’s no real evidence that’s going on with Covid. Just conspiracy theories that some people can’t get over.

 

[DisneyCane]

https://cbs12.com/news/local/desantis-administration-considers-scaling-back-covid-reporting

First, there is all kinds of "could" true statements and it says "no decision is imminent."

Second, whoever Karin McLellan is needs some help. If the daily report, which has high variability in testing numbers, determines if you will leave the house you don't understand the data and should never leave home.

 

[GoofGoof]

https://cbs12.com/news/local/desantis-administration-considers-scaling-back-covid-reporting

I guess maybe that solves some of the data glitches that happen with daily reporting. The bigger question is if they go to a weekly reporting how delayed would it be? If you issue a report on Friday that covers the previous week that’s a long lag if you need to take corrective actions, but if the plan is to not take corrective actions anymore anyway then I suppose it’s less of an issue.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I guess maybe that solves some of the data glitches that happen with daily reporting. The bigger question is if they go to a weekly reporting how delayed would it be? If you issue a report on Friday that covers the previous week that’s a long lag if you need to take corrective actions, but if the plan is to not take corrective actions anymore anyway then I suppose it’s less of an issue.

I wonder how this would impact their ability to get removed from other states' quarantine lists if the change goes through. It's possible that reporting once a week instead of daily might make some governors reluctant to remove them since, as you said, the lag could delay any potential response to an increase in cases. I know NY and NJ only update their list weekly (I think they use Tuesday as the end of the reporting period to determine who is on or off their list), but if FL decides to publish their report on Friday, for example, then there will always be a lag between the reported numbers and when a decision is made about their status on the list.