Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[Tink242424]

I agree that nobody should be forced to get a Covid vaccine and I haven’t seen anywhere that anyone from the government is suggesting they do that. The only thing I‘m confused about is the comment that the other person is informed on the risks and benefits. How could we possibly know the risks or the benefits if the vaccines haven‘t even been approved? Or maybe a better question is what are the risks? What are the odds of serious reaction and/or death? How do we know the risks are similar to the risks of Covid? It doesn’t seem possible to me that we could know that yet but if there’s some information out there I’d be interested in seeing it.

We can infer from all the other vaccines on the market. But yes, you are correct we don't know the full safety profile yet and that should be reviewed prior to any person agreeing to take the vaccine.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Is that what is happening? Or is the governor just not changing the goal posts?

I said "seems" for a reason.

 

[Tink242424]

Nobody knows anything about the risks of the proposed vaccines yet because the data has not been publicly released, or even finalized. But given all the scrutiny the FDA (and its European equivalent) are applying to these vaccines, it seems extremely unlikely that the risk of any vaccine will be anything more than several orders of magnitude lower than for the actual disease.

You would think but I don't have that confidence. There is a lot of fear around COVID and many governments just want it to go away so that their economies recover.

At the end of the day I have some serious concerns about how vaccine research is done even outside of a pandemic and I don't think anyone should just blindly trust the government to keep them safe. That is everyones' own responsibility to fully understand the risk versus the benefit of anything you are taking into your body.

Vaccines have been know to do serious damage especially when testing has been inadequate (H1N1 vaccine anyone??). So no, I'm not just going to trust the government to say this is safe, I will do my own research and make my decision from there. That doesn't make me ignorant is makes me informed.

 

[Tink242424]

Are you trying to claim that more people will die from a covid vaccine then would die from the disease? We don't know anything about the safety of a covid vaccine yet, but I have a hard time believing that any current vaccine has a death rate anywhere near that of covid.

No, I am implying that there will be SOME people who die from the vaccine. And if that person was otherwise healthy but they take a vaccine and die from the vaccine is that worth it? If you know that is a risk and choose to go with the odds I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is people acting like there is NO risk to taking a vaccine or trying to make people who have valid questions or opinions look like they are misinformed idiots who just listen to celebrities. Many people are not anti-vaxx but they do question how vaccines are developed and administered.

Additionally I work in pharma and belong to a facebook group with other pharma professionals and most are very weary of taking a COVID vaccine when it first comes out since we all know that this is being rushed. We just don't know what we don't know. It could be that the death rate from the vaccine is higher than actually getting COVID. We won't know until it is administered widely to the population and that is scary!

 

[CJR]

Is that what is happening? Or is the governor just not changing the goal posts?

You can't move goal posts if they were never set up in the first place. That is where the irritation is coming from. He hasn't come off as knowing what he is doing.

Are theme parks that much more unsafe than a shopping mall or movie theater? The goal posts for theme parks have never been clear.

 

[seabreezept813]

All this talk about hoping the vaccine is safe? How safe are we talking here? Like 99.997% safe? Because that's about how safe it is for people 0-19 to just get the virus. Vaccines, especially new ones, have a much higher potential to be statistically more dangerous. But to be "deemed safe" (whatever that means) by our never-failing-all-wise-government, to benefit Big Pharma, whose companies can't be sued if their product destroys a child's life and yet stand to make billions if they just "deem it safe", doesn't sound 99.997% safe to me. How safe is safe enough for kids? Because it almost sounds safer to just let kids get the virus.

But then I guess the kids might spread the disease to the rest of the population who has only a 99.96% survival rate if they are under age 70. And what good is a kid if we can't unselfishly inject him with a brand new vaccine with no studies on long term impact in order to protect the rest of the population which consists of adults who have not only lived their lives, but can make the choice as to whether that 99.96% survival rate is worth risking in order to re-join this dirty, germ filled society.

Of course it's the 70+ crowd we must attempt to keep alive forever, and only 94.6% of those will survive this horrific disease. In England and Wales, the average age of death to this deadly virus was 82... 82!!!! and to think, many of those might have lived to see 83 one day! Many of those were taken too soon, and if you don't inject this vaccine with unknown consequence into your children, another 82 year old might die needlessly. Of course the average age of death from all other causes in England and Wales is 81, which I guess is a silver lining to those deniers out there who just so happen to not want fear of this deadly virus to dictate their actions.

Please, tell us again how crazy and selfish we are for wanting to avoid putting a new vaccine into our children's bodies because the government "deems it safe".

Call me crazy for not wanting to put strange stuff with unknown side affects into my kids body in order to keep that deadly virus away, but with 99.997% odds, I guess I'll just have to roll the dice.

I’ll call you crazy. What a selfish and crude post.

 

[Lilofan]

You can't move goal posts if they were never set up in the first place. That is where the irritation is coming from. He hasn't come off as knowing what he is doing.

Are theme parks that much more unsafe than a shopping mall or movie theater? The goal posts for theme parks have never been clear.

A comparison between a theme park and movie theatre is flawed. Lights out, no one looking around, some munching on their wet buttered popcorn the audience will not comply being masked up as much as a theme park environment.

 

[CJR]

A comparison between a theme park and movie theatre is flawed. Lights out, no one looking around, some munching on their wet buttered popcorn the audience will not comply being masked up as much as a theme park environment.

And yet theaters in California are reopening. That's the point.

 

[wdisney9000]

This is an tried and true anti-vaxxer trope.

Information on the package inserts for vaccine include all side effects observed in all studies of the drug (including post-marketing studies), whether or not it has been scientifically established there is a causative link between the drug and the side effect. Almost all of these side effects are coincidental observations and are rarely of much concern. This section is the favorite of the anti-vaccine religion because they do not appreciate the utter lack of statistical evidence of correlation, let alone causation, between these reactions and the vaccine. These are simply observations.

Vaccines may cause legitimate allergic reactions in some people, but anti-vaxxers ignore how rare these events are.

"There are approximately 235 million doses of vaccines administered in the United States each year, and only 1 dose per million causes anaphylaxis, a serious medical reaction. Fatalities from vaccine-induced anaphylaxis are exceedingly rare." Source: https://acaai.org/news/patients-vaccine-allergy-may-be-safely-vaccinated-following-new-guidelines

So it's like a 99.97% chance that everything will be fine? No need to panic or even be concerned at all, right?

 

[lazyboy97o]

You are spreading the same misinformation that vaccines do no harm.

Intentionally spreading misinformation is lying. Is he lying?

No, I am implying that there will be SOME people who die from the vaccine. And if that person was otherwise healthy but they take a vaccine and die from the vaccine is that worth it?

Which current vaccine is more lethal than the disease it prevents?

 

[Miss Bella]

So it's like a 99.97% chance that everything will be fine? No need to panic or even be concerned at all, right?

Those odds sound similar to a virus I’ve heard of.

 

[Lilofan]

Those odds sound similar to a virus I’ve heard of.

Yes that thing that's changing the world and our lives..

 

[oceanbreeze77]

Im not saying this to debate anyone, I honestly don’t know.

Isn’t the California Governor following the guidelines everyone was supposed to follow to begin with? Open slowly and in phases?

yes. Most Californians are happy with the steps newsom is taking at this time. (of course you may hear different things from different perspectives) He Rushed everything open in May and we paid the price for it in June/July. Here on the Disney boards, of course people want DL to open, but overall, disney being open isn't a priority for many here in CA.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Those odds sound similar to a virus I’ve heard of.

So, just how many millions of people died from getting a vaccine?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Are theme parks that much more unsafe than a shopping mall or movie theater?

They could be if they attract people from across the country to visit.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Those odds sound similar to a virus I’ve heard of.

Which vaccine is a leading cause of death in the US?

 

[DisneyDebRob]

So we are now heading down the rabbit hole. Nothing is “safe” so that’s the word anti-vaxxers use to prove their point of view.
For example, every year in the United States, about 350 people are killed in bath- or shower-related accidents, about 5000 people are killed when food lodges in their windpipe, and about 50 people are struck and killed by lightning. However, few of us consider taking a bath, eating solid food or walking outside on a rainy day as unsafe activities. We just figure that the benefits of the activity outweigh the risks.
One of the first definitions of “safe” when you look up the word is “harmless”. There’s is barely anything we do that could be considered safe. Everyone needs to talk to their doctor to see if there’s anything in whatever vaccine they are getting to see if any health problems they might have , will it effect them in some way.
As for some doctors that say they are dangerous or harmful.. well get another doctor. There are a tiny percentage of any profession that disagree with the majority. You can find 2-3 percent of all scientists throughout the world that don’t think climate change is real. There are a tiny percentage of doctors that believe vaccines are bad. Stop giving these people any kind of credit for their beliefs. There’s enough data and studies to prove this stuff over and over.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Which vaccine is a leading cause of death in the US?

Oh, I know, I know.. pick me, pick me!

 

[CJR]

They could be if they attract people from across the country to visit.

That's a fair point, but there are ways of handling it.

Keep in mind the level of Disneyland's "attraction" to out of state guests won't be the same as it was before due to the risk and cost involved to those people.

When theme parks in Florida reopened, for example, a two week quarantine was in place for certain areas. California could do the same, if they are that fearful.

In Florida, they're having trouble attracting them with no restrictions from the state. I don’t imagine that Disneyland will be thriving in that capacity either, tbh. Especially since it'll offer even less entertainment than Florida when it does eventually reopen.

 

[Miss Bella]

Which vaccine is a leading cause of death in the US?

Ive never said anyone’s died from a vaccine. I think you might be confused.