Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion

[wdisney9000]

It was a short answer to that. And contrary to politics...this isn’t ONLY about small business (for instance...so you remember where the first $500,000,000,000 of bailout money went? Do you?)

But then you threw a whole bunch of crap at the wall after that “simple question” ...none of it stuck.

And about your business. Assuming you own one. I want minimal damage to it, to you, to your employees, your supplies, etc. I’d be all for any all assistance.

That doesn’t mean I can fully support cavalier measures or inaction.

Fair enough,....I'll see you on the dark side of the moon. As always, I appreciate your response. Or anybody else's for that matter. Especially a mature response. For that, I thank you.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Not everyone has the spare time or even the understanding of where to search for proper and actually accurate information. You have participated in this thread every day over the last 6 months. Literally every day.

The Council of Nine (including yourself) have determined what is or what is not allowed to be discussed in this thread in terms of accurate information because it is seriously your lifestyle at this point. And yes, I know that sounds like an insult when read in a text format.
Please know that it's not. Just a recognition of what happens every day in this thread. Any and all forms of dissent or objection are immediately labelled conspiracy or anti science.

I decide what’s allowed to be discussed here? Are you serious? If I disagree with a point because it’s not based on reasonable thinking or not based on fact I’m directing the conversation? Sir, you have no idea what forums are allabout then. You come in and spout your beliefs, which is perfectly fine, stir the pot with certain thinking then leave for weeks. Nothing wrong with that but don’t get upset when someone confronts you on points you make, which you always do.
As for the council of nine, I like it. Has a ring to it. Thanks. For once I’m on some kind of council.
Lastly, if someone doesn’t have the time(which I find absolutely amazing for the last few months) or understanding of what to search for then we are in worse shape then I thought.

 

[DisneyCane]

Every person who is identified as being positive and can then isolate and alert others they have had contact with means that the spread can be reduced. Also, if we all wear masks and social distance when in public (or visiting family) then that further reduces the spread. Testing alone doesn't do much since it doesn't prevent you from getting it after the test, but that doesn't mean that it isn't helpful.

Yes but by the time somebody who is infected by a chain of asymptomatic carriers tests positive, the trail is lost because the early cases in the chain won't test positive anymore. If you go completely by contacts and contacts of contacts you'll have half the population isolating from one trace.

That's the issue. All of the asymptomatic carriers/spreaders. If almost everybody got symptoms then you could definitely make a huge dent with contact tracing because almost everybody infected would get tested and relatively soon after becoming infected.

I'm not saying it would have no effect but it isn't the magic bullet that it is made out to be. I'm certainly not against contact tracing and it is being done. There are still issues in Florida with people not answering the contact trace calls. There's a pop-up on the state COVID site asking people to save the contact trace phone numbers so they will answer.

 

[disneycp]

It’s a quick search for anyone that wants to know. I’ve also seen that on the news on occasion. If anyone wants answers it’s a finger click away.

Yeah, no...if someone is still misinformed this late in the game, they clearly have no wish to dig into the numbers themselves.

 

[Miss Bella]

"The initial draft guidelines from the state for reopening California theme parks reportedly call for:

• Individual theme parks can reopen only once their county reaches the least-restrictive “minimal” risk level
• Operate at 25% of attendance capacity
• Limit visitors to residents living within a 120-mile radius of each theme park

The state’s draft guidelines present two key problems for theme parks:

• Placing theme parks in the final tier of the Blueprint for a Safer Economy means the severity of the guidelines never change until the pandemic ends
• Reaching the least-restrictive “minimal” tier could be difficult to nearly impossible for California’s most-populous counties

The draft guidelines likely would prevent California theme parks from reopening for weeks or months.

California theme parks likely would not be able to set reopening dates until their respective counties entered the “minimal” tier — or not at all if their counties were stuck at a more-restrictive level.

Theme parks located in counties at the “substantial” level — like Disneyland and Knott’s — won’t be able to reach the least-restrictive “minimal” level for at least three to six weeks. Universal and Magic Mountain are at least six to nine weeks away — if and when Los Angeles County moves from the highest risk level to the lowest. The movement of counties to lower risk levels is dependent on continued improvement in reducing the number of new COVID-19 cases and the percentage of tests that come back positive. Progress will vary by county."

"At best, under the draft guideline proposal, California theme parks would not be able to reopen until late October or November. At worst, reopening dates could be pushed to December or next year. Which makes setting a reopening date for Disneyland, Universal or other California theme parks difficult if not impossible. Without a firm reopening date, the parks can’t set staffing, training, ride testing and visitor reservation plans."

California theme parks push back on restrictions in state’s draft reopening plan

Initial draft guidelines reviewed by theme park operators forced Disneyland, Universal Studios Hollywood and their counterparts to ask Newsom’s administration to hold off on finalizing the reopenin…

www.ocregister.com

The 120 mile rule does nothing to help the Disney resorts or the other hotels in the area.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Fair enough,....I'll see you on the dark side of the moon. As always, I appreciate your response. Or anybody else's for that matter. Especially a mature response. For that, I thank you.

I said this the other day...I don’t think anyone is “pro-lockdown”

Not at all...good god...everyone is sick of this.
Totally.

But I am of the belief we have to stop screwing around...like the fool in Florida...and get serious about creating the conditions good for business.

That’s the ability to command it...not eradicate or seal borders...and modify for the “new normal”

Even the “a vaccine will be ready soon” was a waste of time. It would take another 6+ months to role it out...and that’s assuming no hiccups.

I think it takes it all: limit spread, treatment development, responsible precautions and modified Business.

Some things should be permanently changed...we’ll get there. Hopefully all of us.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hear of what? The daily testing of staff? Multiple news reports. It's also reported that everybody that goes to do an interview or any other such one time visit gets tested before being allowed in.

Sorry...the big patient/news story of the day

Yes but by the time somebody who is infected by a chain of asymptomatic carriers tests positive, the trail is lost because the early cases in the chain won't test positive anymore. If you go completely by contacts and contacts of contacts you'll have half the population isolating from one trace.

That's the issue. All of the asymptomatic carriers/spreaders. If almost everybody got symptoms then you could definitely make a huge dent with contact tracing because almost everybody infected would get tested and relatively soon after becoming infected.

I'm not saying it would have no effect but it isn't the magic bullet that it is made out to be. I'm certainly not against contact tracing and it is being done. There are still issues in Florida with people not answering the contact trace calls. There's a pop-up on the state COVID site asking people to save the contact trace phone numbers so they will answer.

I think...think...if people with cases immediately go into quarantine and contact tracing...the “asymptomatic” can be identified with screening those numbers will fall...that will kill the beast.

People HAVE to participate. This beatnik (frankly) “you ain’t telling me what to do” has GOT to stop. Hurting themselves in the long run

 

[Miss Bella]

Yes but by the time somebody who is infected by a chain of asymptomatic carriers tests positive, the trail is lost because the early cases in the chain won't test positive anymore. If you go completely by contacts and contacts of contacts you'll have half the population isolating from one trace.

That's the issue. All of the asymptomatic carriers/spreaders. If almost everybody got symptoms then you could definitely make a huge dent with contact tracing because almost everybody infected would get tested and relatively soon after becoming infected.

I'm not saying it would have no effect but it isn't the magic bullet that it is made out to be. I'm certainly not against contact tracing and it is being done. There are still issues in Florida with people not answering the contact trace calls. There's a pop-up on the state COVID site asking people to save the contact trace phone numbers so they will answer.

If I had to isolate everytime I came in contact with someone with Covid I’d have spent the last 7 months in isolation.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The numerous videos of government and medical officials stating that death tolls include those dying "with covid", not specifically "from covid" are fake?

And we're dealing again with this attempt to trivialize COVID deaths by discounting the deaths with comorbidities.

Let's say there is this couple: one has diabetes, the other doesn't.

They catch COVID. They both die.

To say that only the one who didn't have diabetes was *truly* a COVID death, but the one who had diabetes didn't *really* die of COVID is the height of stupidity.

And yet, that's what those who discount comorbidity deaths are saying.

In all the annals of medical history when we report the deaths from plague and small pox and ebola and e.coli, we have never teased out from those figures those who had comorbidities... because that would be stupid.

It is only now, in this politicized era where there is a group of people desperately trying to downplay the death of over two hundred thousand Americans (and over a million people worldwide) is anyone at anytime making a distinction between "real COVID deaths" and... I don't know what they would call it... a million extra *coincidental* deaths?

That is never how public health officials and policy ever did it. For good reason.

This is just another form of science denial.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If I had to isolate everytime I came in contact with someone with Covid I’d have spent the last 7 months in isolation.

Then those people shouldn’t be out and about/around you.

Guess people missed step 1, huh?

 

[oceanbreeze77]

If I had to isolate everytime I came in contact with someone with Covid I’d have spent the last 7 months in isolation.

You say that like you're proud. Isolating yourself would have been the very responsible thing to do.

 

[easyrowrdw]

LA still has an R over 1.

For social and activity purposes, the OC and LA may as well be one. Its not uncommon to stop at target in the OC one hour and then Ralphs in LA the next hour.

Good to know. The percentages in LA have been under 5% for almost two months. Not sure about OC, but I think maybe a month? (Couldn't easily find that one). I think reasonable people can disagree about whether or not that's acceptable to open. Regardless...

Even if conditions didn't allow for reopening, you'd think officials could at least have provided the guidance. How long has it been?

It shouldn't have taken this long to lay out the conditions. So I empathize with Disney on this.

 

[Heppenheimer]

And we're dealing again with this attempt to trivialize COVID deaths by discounting the deaths with comorbidities.

Let's say there is this couple: one has diabetes, the other doesn't.

They catch COVID. They both die.

To say that only the one who didn't have diabetes was *truly* a COVID death, but the one who had diabetes didn't *really* die of COVID is the height of stupidity.

And yet, that's what those who discount comorbidity deaths are saying.

In all the annals of medical history when we report the deaths from plague and small pox and ebola and e.coli, we have never teased out from those figures those who had comorbidities... because that would be stupid.

It is only now, in this politicized era where there is a group of people desperately trying to downplay the death of over two hundred thousand Americans (and over a million people worldwide) is anyone at anytime making a distinction between "real COVID deaths" and... I don't know what they would call it... a million extra *coincidental* deaths?

That is never how public health officials and policy ever did it. For good reason.

This is just another form of science denial.

One caveat... teasing out comorbidities is always done for any disease, because it helps researchers understand who is most vulnerable. But this is the first time I've seen armchair epidemiologists weaponize that information for political purposes.

 

[GoofGoof]

I do understand/partially agree with this. My fear is that we would start out saying we know 0 cases can’t be accomplished (at least for the foreseeable future) and, in the beginning, we would focus solely on getting cases down as low as possible. But then I can imagine what happens next - people see the cases are low and say “why would we ever remove restrictions? That would just undo all of the hard work we’ve been doing. If anything, we should ADD restrictions to get numbers even lower” and then it’s a slippery slope of restrictions for the next 2 years until the vaccine has been given to everyone. That’s basically what happened when we said we would quarantine for 2 weeks to “flatten the curve”.... that very quickly turned into acting as if every case reported is a death sentence; we’re focusing on new cases now almost as much as new deaths.

You have to start somewhere. Set realistic goals, not zero cases and stick to a plan. We failed to do that. We don’t need lock downs and stay at home orders permanently. When we did that in March the plan was supposed to be to reduce cases until the spread was much lower and ramp up testing and tracing. We never followed through. People get tired of stay at home orders and gave up too soon. At this point there’s no practical way to restart that process. I believe that ship has sailed. What we can do today is follow some basic and simple requirements, keep expanding testing and tracing to the extent possible and ride this out until we God willing get a vaccine. If none of those vaccines work out it’s going to take quite a while to get back to normal, but we will figure it out.

 

[easyrowrdw]

You say that like you're proud. Isolating yourself would have been the very responsible thing to do.

That may not be an option if you work in healthcare. It's a regular occurrence at a hospital, but hopefully the PPE is effective.

 

[GoofGoof]

A prominent person contracted the virus even though everybody that comes into contact with said person was tested EVERY DAY. If that didn't prevent the spread, how would contact tracing and isolation? Especially given the high percentage of completely asymptomatic infections.

You are forgetting the stuff from my previous post. Wear masks when in public or interacting with people outside your immediate family group, practice physical distancing, avoid large group gatherings (especially indoors) and limit indoor dining. If the prominent figure and the people around him followed those recommendations and also got tested frequently just in case there would be a far less chance of getting infected. Testing doesn‘t cure the disease or prevent infection for the person being tested it just helps to isolate sick people sooner. That’s why you need a combo of those things. It’s a very simple plan to understand and follow. I get it that some people just won’t. That‘s too bad.

 

[DisneyCane]

Sorry...the big patient/news story of the day

I think...think...if people with cases immediately go into quarantine and contact tracing...the “asymptomatic” can be identified with screening those numbers will fall...that will kill the beast.

People HAVE to participate. This beatnik (frankly) “you ain’t telling me what to do” has GOT to stop. Hurting themselves in the long run

I heard that story on sports radio on my way out to work a little before 7 this morning.

I agree that people have to participate in the contact tracing. The main issue with that seems to be in minority communities that don't trust the government more than it is the people like me that don't want to be told where I can go and how I can dine. I'd participate in contact tracing without question if I tested positive or somebody I was close to did and I was called.

 

[Kevin_W]

The 120 mile rule does nothing to help the Disney resorts or the other hotels in the area.

It also puts yet one more burden on the park operators. Do I have to provide a driver's license or utility bill in order to buy a ticket or enter the park?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I heard that story on sports radio on my way out to work a little before 7 this morning.

I agree that people have to participate in the contact tracing. The main issue with that seems to be in minority communities that don't trust the government more than it is the people like me that don't want to be told where I can go and how I can dine. I'd participate in contact tracing without question if I tested positive or somebody I was close to did and I was called.

I was ok with “sports radio” until I saw this gem...you fell off the truck again.

Where da hell did you get that??

Nevermind...try to connect the dots here:

Police Break Up Big College Parties as Coronavirus Spreads

As coronavirus cases spike among Florida State University students, local police say they broke up a party at an off-campus student apartment complex that involved about 700 vehicles and more than 1,000 attendees

www.google.com

Or maybe a visual?

And here I THOUGHT we where making progress with our sessions??

 

[Rich Brownn]

And we're dealing again with this attempt to trivialize COVID deaths by discounting the deaths with comorbidities.

Let's say there is this couple: one has diabetes, the other doesn't.

They catch COVID. They both die.

To say that only the one who didn't have diabetes was *truly* a COVID death, but the one who had diabetes didn't *really* die of COVID is the height of stupidity.

And yet, that's what those who discount comorbidity deaths are saying.

In all the annals of medical history when we report the deaths from plague and small pox and ebola and e.coli, we have never teased out from those figures those who had comorbidities... because that would be stupid.

It is only now, in this politicized era where there is a group of people desperately trying to downplay the death of over two hundred thousand Americans (and over a million people worldwide) is anyone at anytime making a distinction between "real COVID deaths" and... I don't know what they would call it... a million extra *coincidental* deaths?

That is never how public health officials and policy ever did it. For good reason.

This is just another form of science denial.

The best example I have heard if a tree crashes through your roof during a hurricane you're not going to say the tree did the damage all by itself.