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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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- coronavirus covid covid-19
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GoofGoof
Premium Member
Why can’t you get together with family or friends? Minimizing contact with people doesn’t mean you have to be locked in your house alone. My parents have been to my house several times and we all sat outside in the yard and if we had to be closer than 6 feet we put a mask on. It’s not that hard at all. You don’t need to have a party with 50+ people and no masks to have social interaction. Part of the problem with all of this is that people go to extremes examples and then throw their hands up and say we can’t do this. You can see friends and family members within a set of rules. You can’t go to a restaurant and have 20 people at a large table together. You can’t have a massive party. I get that people want to do those things too, but if we all just do what we want the outcome for everyone will be a lot worse. We are seeing that right now with all the schools deciding not to open now.Virtual gatherings and meetings can only go so far. They truly cannot replace the physical gatherings and joys of such with families and friend. We are basically being asked to not only social distance now, but not go out at all when absolutely needed. yeah they moved the goal posts again:
K-12 schools and colleges can reopen, but safety should come first, Fauci says | CNN
Dr. Anthony Fauci said Monday safety and testing need to be a priority when determining whether to re-open schools and colleges.www.cnn.com
“You have to do more than just wear masks and keep social distancing. You have to minimize your contact with as many people as possible," ACCESS Health's Haseltine said.”
for awhile, it was “wear masks and social distance” and we would be able to get back to at least a small normal (family dinners, watching sports with no audience,etc)so that’s what I mean by moving the goal posts.
that’s definitely possible, but for how long? One month? 3 months? 6 months? Who gets to make that determination? What if the virus is minimized to below the transmission RO of >1 people start going back out again, and it spikes up? Do we tell people who are already psychologically worn down from months of no physical time with family and friends, no physical celebrations, no vacations for many, and so on, to do it al over again?
I’m not making the call of what way is the right way; I don’t feel morally or ethically qualified to do so. I don’t know all the answers. And I empathize with the public health decision makers who have to grapple with this. I also will note that I’m not trying to devalue lives; it is awful when people die, and one life lost to covid or any other cause is tragic for those who loved and cherished that person. We all better hope and pray for a vaccine or 2021 will be a long year too
SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
oh I am perfectly ok with that; but notice the quote from the article; that social distancing is not enough. Going to a family home and siting 6 ft apart outside is social distancing, no? They are saying now that may no longer be enough. It may be back to zoom calls with family and friends
GoofGoof
Premium Member
They are saying in areas with a large number of cases it may not be enough to continue to go out to places like restaurants or theme parks where you interact with a lot of different people even with masks and social distancing if we want to see cases drop. I don’t think they are trying to say you can’t interact with anyone. There’s a huge difference between sitting in a restaurant for an hour with 50 strangers and sitting in your backyard with just a handful of family members.
Edit: since this pandemic started I have probably physically interacted with at most 25 people outside of my immediate family for a period of time greater than passing by in a store. If I went to a restaurant for indoor dining right now there’s a good chance I‘d equal that number in 1 night. That’s the meaning of minimizing your contact with as many people as possible.
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
As is the case with so many enjoyable things in life - common sense, moderation, and safety are key.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Family gatherings can also turn into nightmares when not everyone does what they need to do.
Family gatherings linked to COVID-19 spikes nationwide, numbers show
According to national trends, unless you’re gathering with family from your own household, a barbecue in the backyard could put you at risk.
wreg.com
GoofGoof
Premium Member
We got invited to a birthday party that was 30+ people for a close family friend and we just declined. It’s just not a good idea to do those things. It sucks but nobody said there were easy answers.Family gatherings can also turn into nightmares when not everyone does what they need to do.
Family gatherings linked to COVID-19 spikes nationwide, numbers show
According to national trends, unless you’re gathering with family from your own household, a barbecue in the backyard could put you at risk.
Archie123
Well-Known Member
And a few of those things are sadly lacking in many people.
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disneygeek90
Well-Known Member
I'll admit I went to a few indoor restaurants in June and early July. Not many, but a couple. Then I was spooked away from continuing to do that anymore thanks to Hard Rock at Universal. Everyone was distanced, but there was a Birthday near by and they had the whole restaurant start singing/cheering inside, with masks off, and that felt uncomfortable. I realized after that it's not worth the risk. I ate at Pinochhio's outside at MK, Flame Tree at AK, sat at the outside bar for dinner at Portobello and Lava Lounge etc. Other than the theme parks, I'm really not going to my usual spots anymore. I realize how ironic that sounds, but for the majority I still feel comfortable there.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
We just get a lot of takeout from our favorite spots. Everyone is doing curbside pickup and most of their menu so it’s pretty solid.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Interesting read...the great mask debate is not a novel concept. Neither is the concept of bars and schools closing for a pandemic.
news.yahoo.com
The Mask Slackers of 1918
The masks were called muzzles, germ shields and dirt traps. They gave people a "piglike snout." Some people snipped holes in their masks to smoke cigars. Others fastened them to dogs in mockery. Bandits used them to rob banks.More than a century ago, as the 1918 influenza pandemic raged in
news.yahoo.com
ImperfectPixie
Well-Known Member
And apparently, we learned nothing from that pandemic.Interesting read...the great mask debate is not a novel concept. Neither is the concept of bars and schools closing for a pandemic.
The Mask Slackers of 1918
The masks were called muzzles, germ shields and dirt traps. They gave people a "piglike snout." Some people snipped holes in their masks to smoke cigars. Others fastened them to dogs in mockery. Bandits used them to rob banks.More than a century ago, as the 1918 influenza pandemic raged in
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I did find it interesting to see that there was a group of people resistant to wearing masks even back then. The other thing that was interesting was to hear that both bars and schools were shut down. We hear a lot of people saying that the restrictions put in place today are unprecedented and that’s obviously not true. Schools closed back then and there was no option for distance learning. They just closed. I wonder if there was permanent damage done to students or a learning gap or all those things we hear about today. Bars and other businesses closed too. I wonder if there were increases in suicides back then like people claim will happen today if people are out of work. I have never heard that, but news from that time is harder to come by then today. I guess people back then were hardier as well. I don’t know when we became so fragile but I think people back then were accustomed to making sacrifices coming off of WWI.Interesting read...the great mask debate is not a novel concept. Neither is the concept of bars and schools closing for a pandemic.
The Mask Slackers of 1918
The masks were called muzzles, germ shields and dirt traps. They gave people a "piglike snout." Some people snipped holes in their masks to smoke cigars. Others fastened them to dogs in mockery. Bandits used them to rob banks.More than a century ago, as the 1918 influenza pandemic raged in
Heppenheimer
Well-Known Member
Hard to say, but we might be comparing apples and oranges. Back in that time, a surprisingly large number of students would not even have graduated high school, but would have learned the bare minimum to enter the work force, then taken a manual labor job or an apprenticeship. Only a tiny fraction of students were placed on a competitive pre-university track.
The Great Depression and WWII probably had much bigger impact on that generation's employment and long-term economic prospects than the pandemic.
It's always interesting to see how simply by setting the X and Y axis on a graph, it's easy to mislead.
For example, I've seen some exaggerate the current spike in Australia by placing 1,000 cases on the very top of the graph, making 700 cases look huge.
In this case, by measuring deaths in the thousands... it makes deaths look flat since they are consistently below 500 per day.
Since deaths are only 0.5%-5% of cases, they can't be measured on the same axis as cases, if your goal is a realistic picture of change over time. The graph isn't sensitive enough to pick up a change from 20 to 200.... Making that 1000% increase look flat.
Here is a more accurate representation of the 7 day average of Florida deaths by Covid:
Virtual gatherings and meetings can only go so far. They truly cannot replace the physical gatherings and joys of such with families and friend. We are basically being asked to not only social distance now, but not go out at all when absolutely needed. yeah they moved the goal posts again:
K-12 schools and colleges can reopen, but safety should come first, Fauci says | CNN
Dr. Anthony Fauci said Monday safety and testing need to be a priority when determining whether to re-open schools and colleges.
“You have to do more than just wear masks and keep social distancing. You have to minimize your contact with as many people as possible," ACCESS Health's Haseltine said.”
for awhile, it was “wear masks and social distance” and we would be able to get back to at least a small normal (family dinners, watching sports with no audience,etc)so that’s what I mean by moving the goal posts.
that’s definitely possible, but for how long? One month? 3 months? 6 months? Who gets to make that determination? What if the virus is minimized to below the transmission RO of >1 people start going back out again, and it spikes up? Do we tell people who are already psychologically worn down from months of no physical time with family and friends, no physical celebrations, no vacations for many, and so on, to do it al over again?
I’m not making the call of what way is the right way; I don’t feel morally or ethically qualified to do so. I don’t know all the answers. And I empathize with the public health decision makers who have to grapple with this. I also will note that I’m not trying to devalue lives; it is awful when people die, and one life lost to covid or any other cause is tragic for those who loved and cherished that person. We all better hope and pray for a vaccine or 2021 will be a long year too
I haven't seen any goal posts really get "moved" by the experts. Some things have been adjusted as we learned more. For example, it took a few weeks to realize the efficacy of masks. (though they have been consistently recommended by experts since early April).
Goal posts have been moved by politicians routinely... not really by the experts.
All along, public health experts have said mitigation measures are needed. That "lock downs" are needed during times of high viral spread, and that a "new normal" of masks / social distancing, would be necessary at all times to keep the virus at bay. Some of the earliest models I saw suggested we would need to go rolling lock downs... lock down for 6 weeks, open for a month, then shut down for another 6 weeks.
Experts were never really suggesting that a single lockdown would be a permanent solution to get us back to complete normal.
We have to be nimble and adjust. The better we mitigate, the better we test and contact trace, then the better we can have a semblance of normalcy. But getting to sit in a packed movie theater.... a wedding with hundreds of guests... etc.... those things unfortunately aren't going to be happening for quite a while.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
I posted this to show where cases are trending in the US and the most populous states. Not deaths. I’ll edit to make this clear.
SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
Don’t get me wrong, while I miss those things too, well at least concerts hehe, I recognize that those will not be back for a long time.
I don’t mean to come across as cynical, but the very nature of this virus is novel, so naturally it seems like a lot of responses, even from public health officials, is trial and error. And I feel that at some point, psychologically, many will not be able to deal with the off and on effects of isolation, stay at home orders, avoiding gatherings (even smaller ones), not getting to go to school, and so on.
I don’t doubt the efficacy in the short term of contact tracing, but even countries who pulverized the curve and have robust contact tracing, are seeing spikes and worried about a second wave. France came out today and warned of one. Thats why we need a vaccine, or an extremely reliable (eg, not HC) treatment that can manage symptoms. that’s the only way I think we get back to normal.
Wasn’t suggesting it was your intent to mislead. Just easy to under-appreciate deaths based on the way presented in those graphs.
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