Ponderer
Well-Known Member
What, proof that we had zero deaths in MA yesterday? Proof that Europe took these measures more seriously? You can Google that yourself.
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
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What, proof that we had zero deaths in MA yesterday? Proof that Europe took these measures more seriously? You can Google that yourself.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Start with whoever Zeke and Dak are hanging with and work their way back would be a smart plan
Feds planning to ‘blitz’ test in Texas to find young adults silently spreading COVID-19
AUSTIN — Federal officials are developing plans for a “blitz” of testing in Texas and other states to find young adults who have no symptoms and may be...www.google.com
Ponderer
Well-Known Member
I like to tune out the noise and find real data whenever possible. There are too many agendas out there to get accurate information otherwise. The CDC just posted the most recent data on deaths up to 6/27/20.
COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics
Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.www.cdc.gov
As the medical community has learned more about COVID that they have found ways to treat it, and they have reduced the fatality rate accordingly. I'm curious for this chart to be updated with the latest numbers based on the recent increase in total cases.
A couple of things I find interesting about these numbers:
- 112,000 total deaths due to COVID compared to 127,000 on the Johns Hopkins site.
- less than 8,000 people under the age of 55 have died from COVID.
- Over 35,000 (31%) deaths occurred in those over 85. Average life expectancy in the US is about 87.
We also have to stop fixating about mortality on this. This is doing a lot more than just killing people. It's causing tons of permanent damage in all age groups. There are people who have been fighting this for 4 months. Mortality has gone down as we understand that mechanism, but we don't understand what's causing organ damage, mini-clots, and even paranoid delusions. This would be a lot easier to understand if this was just a respiratory disease, but it's not.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
That would have impacted DLR if it was open, or at least a lot of the indoor spaces.
Ponderer
Well-Known Member
That's why you should look at hospitalizations first before anything else. And they're going through the roof.
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Well the virus is transmitted through droplets. It’s not just particles floating around. It needs to stay moist to continue to travel and the droplets will only stay in the air for a limited amount of time. There really isn’t evidence that the virus is airborne in any significant manner where it is causing spread. It is still all about that close contact over an extended period of time.How does distancing helps when the air circulation system is literally transporting particles to every area of the establishment? Over the course of an hour, that air is going to reach every inch of the room. You don't have to be just sitting in front of an air intake.
As some restaurants reopen, model shows how coronavirus can spread farther than 6 feet
"When a virus is caught up in an air stream, it has the potential to move much further than six feet," Professor Kevin Van Den Wymelenberg said.www.cbsnews.com
See how easily COVID-19 might spread through a restaurant in this black light experiment
The study was performed by experts on contact infection and Japan’s NHK, the country’s national public broadcaster.www.kxan.com
Andrew C
You know what's funny?
Can you define tons?
GoofGoof
Premium Member
My favorite local place to get fresh brewed beer has been doing deliveries of growlers since the start of the lock downs. They never stopped brewing beer and just got a local guy looking for work to drive around and deliver the beer. From what I understand they did quite well on beer sales throughout the lock down. I’m not 100% sure beer deliveries are legal in PA in non-Covid times but it’s a freakin pandemic...plus the police have bigger issues than selling a few growlers
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Yes. Proof they did anything different. Or better.
Ponderer
Well-Known Member
That depends. There's more than one kind of droplet. There are ones that kind of weigh themselves down, and there are ones that are aerosolized, and those particles tend to be a mixture of both. There was a choir outbreak in WA in March, where a bunch of people were infected even though they were socially distant.
This study from May indicates that even the heavier droplets may stay airborne for 8-14 minutes, which is...a lot of time.
The airborne lifetime of small speech droplets and their potential importance in SARS-CoV-2 transmission
Speech droplets generated by asymptomatic carriers of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) are increasingly considered to be a likely mode of disease transmission. Highly sensitive laser light scattering observations have revealed that loud speech can emit thousands of...
www.pnas.org
GoofGoof
Premium Member
It’s pretty gross, but I never knew how much of other people’s spit I was breathing in. Thank God this thing isn’t airborne like measles. It’s infectious enough as it is. The way I understood the spread is exactly like you said. The droplets are too heavy to float indefinitely in the air (like measles) so they are “spit” out and once they lose velocity drop to the floor. It’s still unknown how extensive the impact could be, but a powerful fan or blower Indoors could make the distance traveled longer potentially. Maybe all bars need those heavy duty exhaust fans that suck all the air out like in a cigar bar.
Ponderer
Well-Known Member
The timelines on this indicate that they waited FAR longer to start opening up, for starters.
Coronavirus: How lockdown is being lifted across Europe
As the UK alters its restrictions, how are other European countries reopening after lockdown?
www.bbc.com
milordsloth
Well-Known Member
How does distancing helps when the air circulation system is literally transporting particles to every area of the establishment? Over the course of an hour, that air is going to reach every inch of the room. You don't have to be just sitting in front of an air intake.
As some restaurants reopen, model shows how coronavirus can spread farther than 6 feet
"When a virus is caught up in an air stream, it has the potential to move much further than six feet," Professor Kevin Van Den Wymelenberg said.
See how easily COVID-19 might spread through a restaurant in this black light experiment
The study was performed by experts on contact infection and Japan’s NHK, the country’s national public broadcaster.
The first article says there's a potential for the virus to spread, but simply opening a window reduces the risk. The second article shows why we are definitely not doing buffet style restaurants. However, the article says at the end "In a second experiment, all of the subjects washed their hands before and during eating, and workers disinfected commonly touched surfaces, according to CNN. When researchers turned on the black light, none of the “virus” had spread to the other diners. "
So, I am not convinced.
Ponderer
Well-Known Member
We're starting to get a picture of that in the US, but one study in China showed that 19 percent of COVID patients showed signs of heart damage. Another Yale study of patients in Wuhan and NYC showed that up to 30 percent of COVID patients developed severe kidney injuries (and may be higher in NYC). A small study that just came out from the University of Liverpool showed that more than a third of people with severe COVID suffered some form of ischemic stroke, and half of those affected were under 60. The ages of all these patients ranged from 20s to the 90s. We're seeing signs of things like chronic fatigue for months, diabetes being triggered, even weird foot lesions. Anyway, even half of these numbers would be monstrous compared to mortality rates.
Scientists are actually growing miniature organs in the lab to try and understand how COVID is attacking organs.
chrisvee
Well-Known Member
Remaining life expectancy for an 85yr old in US is 91.6. Current life expectancy at birth is 78.6. Numbers as of 2017.I like to tune out the noise and find real data whenever possible. There are too many agendas out there to get accurate information otherwise. The CDC just posted the most recent data on deaths up to 6/27/20.
COVID-19 Provisional Counts - Weekly Updates by Select Demographic and Geographic Characteristics
Tabulated data on provisional COVID-19 deaths by age, sex, race and Hispanic origin, and comorbidities. Also includes an index of state-level and county-level mortality data available for download.
As the medical community has learned more about COVID that they have found ways to treat it, and they have reduced the fatality rate accordingly. I'm curious for this chart to be updated with the latest numbers based on the recent increase in total cases.
A couple of things I find interesting about these numbers:
- 112,000 total deaths due to COVID compared to 127,000 on the Johns Hopkins site.
- less than 8,000 people under the age of 55 have died from COVID.
- Over 35,000 (31%) deaths occurred in those over 85. Average life expectancy in the US is about 87.
Ponderer
Well-Known Member
That's fine. But I'm still not sure what the difference between a bar and a restaurant is in terms of transmission, especially if you had some sort of social distancing guidelines in practice at both.
milordsloth
Well-Known Member
I don't think there is a difference if social distancing guidelines are being followed. I think it probably comes down to not trusting people to maintain distance after a few drinks.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Wrong.The timelines on this indicate that they waited FAR longer to start opening up, for starters.
Coronavirus: How lockdown is being lifted across Europe
As the UK alters its restrictions, how are other European countries reopening after lockdown?
Because I don’t have a ton of time well use the first listed country. Germany.
Lockdown started March 22. Began lifting lockdown in early April. Further lifted in May. Further lifted in June.
Sounds familiar.....
And now....
'I am angry': Germans back in lockdown demand accountability | Germany | The Guardian
More than 1,700 employees at local abattoir of North Rhine-Westphalia’s Gütersloh region tested positive
www.google.com
Ponderer
Well-Known Member
Wrong.
Because I don’t have a ton of time well use the first listed country. Germany.
Lockdown started March 22. Began lifting lockdown in early April. Further lifted in May. Further lifted in June.
Sounds familiar.....
And now....
'I am angry': Germans back in lockdown demand accountability | Germany | The Guardian
More than 1,700 employees at local abattoir of North Rhine-Westphalia’s Gütersloh region tested positive
Three months in Italy where you couldn‘t travel between regions. I mean, did you see the videos of Italian mayors screaming at people for even being outside? They took it SERIOUSLY.
Italians on the move again as lockdown restrictions ease
Italians were allowed to travel to other regions of the country on Wednesday for the first time in nearly three months, in a further relaxation of lockdown restrictions imposed to curb the spread of the new coronavirus.
www.reuters.com
Your German example had a three-month phase in and they’re still not where Florida and Texas were. And you certainly have a much stronger pro-mask environment there.
oceanbreeze77
Well-Known Member
Yeah it will be interesting to see what the studies find. But I also think indoor lines have their own unique risks too. For example, hand rails.
There have been a few articles from different states, I know Texas is really looking at restaurants as a source of the surge.
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