News Coronado Springs Expansion - Gran Destino Tower

[larryz]

Why though? What are we even doing here? Aren't we all here to share our opinions on these things? I love Old Key West, I am not yelling at people who hate it and calling them morons(paraphrasing). Ya know what I mean?

Yeah, well, it's the internet. You never know who you're posting with. Someone on here might be the guy whose plans were rejected in favor of what they actually built.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Are the iconic deluxe resorts really iconically Disney if they're just copying other architecture?

The Polynesian is copying Polynesian architecture. The Grand Floridian is copying lake and seaside resort architecture. The BoardWark and Yacht & Beach Club are also simply copying lake and seaside architecture. Wilderness Lodge is copying Pacific Northwest architecture. All those supposedly iconically Disney resorts can be just as much savaged for being seen anywhere else that is by the shore or at a national park.

Just like the Gran Destino is savaged for being seen like a Vegas hotel: "I've seen it elsewhere, therefor, it ain't Disney!!!" And I've seen most of Disney's deluxe resorts elsewhere. And they ain't "Disney" originals.

Disney purposely stole the resort aesthetics from other resorts because, you know, they want to show they have resorts!!

And we all know we're talking about Disney, here, right? Where most of their iconic IP is ripped off from the public domain (princesses) or purchased IP license from popular existing IP (Bambi, Peter Pan, Mary Poppins)? Disney did the same exact thing with their legacy resorts: copy and paste. Only the Contemporary can be seen as a novel build (and aside from the grand gesture of the monorail passing through the lobby... leaves a lot to be desired).

The only architecturally daring and unique Disney resorts are the Swan and Dolphin.

A place and anyplace are not the same thing. You’re whole post is a confusion of place, structure and form.

 

[Kram Sacul]

Have a nighttime shot, Courtesy of @Bioreconstruct

It’s always funny when something so bland and uninspired looks almost amazing at night(ie Pixar Pier). Oh Disney.

 

[GlacierGlacier]

It’s always funny when something so bland and uninspired looks almost amazing at night(ie Pixar Pier). Oh Disney.

They most certainly have good lighting designers, that's for sure.

 

[Sam Magic]

Are the iconic deluxe resorts really iconically Disney if they're just copying other architecture?

The Polynesian is copying Polynesian architecture. The Grand Floridian is copying lake and seaside resort architecture. The BoardWark and Yacht & Beach Club are also simply copying lake and seaside architecture. Wilderness Lodge is copying Pacific Northwest architecture. All those supposedly iconically Disney resorts can be just as much savaged for being seen anywhere else that is by the shore or at a national park.

Just like the Gran Destino is savaged for being seen like a Vegas hotel: "I've seen it elsewhere, therefor, it ain't Disney!!!" And I've seen most of Disney's deluxe resorts elsewhere. And they ain't "Disney" originals.

Disney purposely stole the resort aesthetics from other resorts because, you know, they want to show they have resorts!!

And we all know we're talking about Disney, here, right? Where most of their iconic IP is ripped off from the public domain (princesses) or purchased IP license from popular existing IP (Bambi, Peter Pan, Mary Poppins)? Disney did the same exact thing with their legacy resorts: copy and paste. Only the Contemporary can be seen as a novel build (and aside from the grand gesture of the monorail passing through the lobby... leaves a lot to be desired).

The only architecturally daring and unique Disney resorts are the Swan and Dolphin.

There is a difference between place and anyplace.

Everything Disney has built is meant to evoke a specific place, a nostalgic time, etc. in order to garner an emotional reaction and connection for guests. By your metric, Main Street USA would be just fine if it was a Florida strip mall, but that's not the point. The point of having highly themed environments is in order to entertain guests, take them out of their normal lives briefly, and cause an emotional nostalgic reaction. What makes Disney unique is NOT that it is creating any new form of architecture it's that it, more than any other place in the world, is focused on recreating existing forms but using them so as to provoke a specific response by the individual.

Anyplace doesn't care about the emotion, it doesn't care to place the individual in a specific time or place. It is fundamentally devoid of such things. It doesn't care about style, it doesn't care about detail, its functionalist to an extreme. A Hobby Lobby store or a Walmart looks basically the same anywhere you go. It doesn't matter whether it's in Dallas or Atlanta, odds are that it'll look the same. As such the buildings and the environment they exist in do not provoke any kind of emotional response, or at least a response on par with the ones Disney employs.

Disney isn't inventing new architectural styles. It isn't on the forefront of architecture, but it's not trying to be. Instead, Disney has historically reused existing styles in order to recreate a specific feeling of place that transports the individual to somewhere else. Somewhere they can't go. As a New Orleans native, Port Orleans is nowhere close to what living in NOLA is actually like, but it properly evokes the feeling and the romantic idea of New Orleans and Bayou country--which is the point. Disney isn't trying to recreate reality, it's trying to build a romantic and nostalgic idea of a place.

 

[larryz]

There is a difference between place and anyplace.

Everything Disney has built is meant to evoke a specific place, a nostalgic time, etc. in order to garner an emotional reaction and connection for guests. By your metric, Main Street USA would be just fine if it was a Florida strip mall, but that's not the point. The point of having highly themed environments is in order to entertain guests, take them out of their normal lives briefly, and cause an emotional nostalgic reaction. What makes Disney unique is NOT that it is creating any new form of architecture it's that it, more than any other place in the world, is focused on recreating existing forms but using them so as to provoke a specific response by the individual.

Anyplace doesn't care about the emotion, it doesn't care to place the individual in a specific time or place. It is fundamentally devoid of such things. It doesn't care about style, it doesn't care about detail, its functionalist to an extreme. A Hobby Lobby store or a Walmart looks basically the same anywhere you go. It doesn't matter whether it's in Dallas or Atlanta, odds are that it'll look the same. As such the buildings and the environment they exist in do not provoke any kind of emotional response, or at least a response on par with the ones Disney employs.

Disney isn't inventing new architectural styles. It isn't on the forefront of architecture, but it's not trying to be. Instead, Disney has historically reused existing styles in order to recreate a specific feeling of place that transports the individual to somewhere else. Somewhere they can't go. As a New Orleans native, Port Orleans is nowhere close to what living in NOLA is actually like, but it properly evokes the feeling and the romantic idea of New Orleans and Bayou country--which is the point. Disney isn't trying to recreate reality, it's trying to build a romantic and nostalgic idea of a place.

And the idea of a place for the Gran Destino is something definitely Latin and vaguely Spanish.

 

[MisterPenguin]

There is a difference between place and anyplace.

Everything Disney has built is meant to evoke a specific place, a nostalgic time, etc. in order to garner an emotional reaction and connection for guests. By your metric, Main Street USA would be just fine if it was a Florida strip mall, but that's not the point. The point of having highly themed environments is in order to entertain guests, take them out of their normal lives briefly, and cause an emotional nostalgic reaction. What makes Disney unique is NOT that it is creating any new form of architecture it's that it, more than any other place in the world, is focused on recreating existing forms but using them so as to provoke a specific response by the individual.

Anyplace doesn't care about the emotion, it doesn't care to place the individual in a specific time or place. It is fundamentally devoid of such things. It doesn't care about style, it doesn't care about detail, its functionalist to an extreme. A Hobby Lobby store or a Walmart looks basically the same anywhere you go. It doesn't matter whether it's in Dallas or Atlanta, odds are that it'll look the same. As such the buildings and the environment they exist in do not provoke any kind of emotional response, or at least a response on par with the ones Disney employs.

Disney isn't inventing new architectural styles. It isn't on the forefront of architecture, but it's not trying to be. Instead, Disney has historically reused existing styles in order to recreate a specific feeling of place that transports the individual to somewhere else. Somewhere they can't go. As a New Orleans native, Port Orleans is nowhere close to what living in NOLA is actually like, but it properly evokes the feeling and the romantic idea of New Orleans and Bayou country--which is the point. Disney isn't trying to recreate reality, it's trying to build a romantic and nostalgic idea of a place.

And the Contemporary fails by that metric.

Or the part of Fantasia that is set to the Toccata and Fugue in D Minor.

Sometimes good art and architecture is evocative and not literal.

 

[SorcererMC]

Casa Batlló on the left. Note the parabolic arch in the background and the color scheme, particularly the tiles. Gran Destino on the right.

Park Güell mosaic tiles on the left. Gran Destino Barcelona Lounge stained glass on the right.

 

[Sam Magic]

And the Contemporary fails by that metric.

Or the part of Fantasia that is set to the Toccata and Fugue in D Minor.

Sometimes good art and architecture is evocative and not literal.

No it doesn't. The Contemporary is supposed to evoke the feeling of staying in a hotel of the future. It may fail for some now, but it certainly didn't when it first opened in 1971.

As for Grand Destino, it's clear Disney didn't have a very specific place or time they were trying to evoke like they've had in the past. Is it based on a short? Is it trying to recreate Gaudi's Barcelona? An attempt to build Gaudi's never built but proposed New York Hotel (picture below for reference), who knows. Disney can't seem to decide on a final answer.

If Disney is moving to lazily project vague ideas of style and region onto large tower hotels, then of course that's their prerogative as a company. I just feel it's a departure from their long established standard and I merely hope they reverse course.

(Unbuilt proposal for a hotel in New York by Catalan modernista/art nouveau architect Antoni Gaudi)

 

[SorcererMC]

As for Grand Destino, it's clear Disney didn't have a very specific place or time they were trying to evoke like they've had in the past. Is it based on a short? Is it trying to recreate Gaudi's Barcelona? An attempt to build Gaudi's never built but proposed New York Hotel (picture below for reference), who knows. Disney can't seem to decide on a final answer.

I'm confident that Disney knew exactly what specific places they were imagineering.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm confident that Disney knew exactly what specific places they were imagineering.

Then why so many without much of a stated focus?

 

[Sam Magic]

I'm confident that Disney knew exactly what specific places they were imagineering.

Then explain why they've given multiple different and contradictory answers to the question of, "what inspired the theming of this resort?"

 

[SorcererMC]

Then why so many without much of a stated focus?

My guess is a marketing fail. For example, I don't see much, if any, Mexican influence on the Gran Destino design...I think they just threw that in because it's at Coronado Springs.

ETA: From their blog post. "From jaw-dropping chandeliers to beautiful Spanish tiles, murals and wall patterns, Disney’s Coronado Springs Resort honors the rich cultures and landscapes of Spain, Mexico, and the American Southwest.

That's a 'big picture' statement about the resort itself. My comments are about the Gran Destino design, for those who might find the design 'vague' or are perhaps unfamiliar with Gaudi's architectural style.

 

[SorcererMC]

So you prove the point. Unlike previous resorts that had a very clear and very definable theming inspiration, Destino has a mixture that neither the imagineers or Disney's marketing team can explain.

While it is objectively a very nice, elegant, and I'm sure fantastic hotel, it nonetheless is a key departure from the Disney tradition and standard. A kind of departure that is becoming all too common. It's a hotel that looks great now on Instagram, but in the longterm could represent a shift in quality and design throughout the resort that would harm what has made Disney Parks and Resorts so unique over the past 64 years.

Please see my edit.

 

[Sam Magic]

Please see my edit.

Noted.

My only response to the Disney Park Blog post is that "Spain, Mexico, and the American Southwest" are three very very different spaces and styles. So it seems as though they wanted to do a "vague, chic, spanish style hotel", built Destino and then claimed it was inspired by three different countries that as far as most Americans (and I suppose the majority of Disney leaders) are concerned look about the same.

 

[SorcererMC]

Noted.

My only response to the Disney Park Blog post is that "Spain, Mexico, and the American Southwest" are three very very different spaces and styles. So it seems as though they wanted to do a "vague, chic, spanish style hotel", built Destino and then claimed it was inspired by three different countries that as far as most Americans (and I suppose the majority of Disney leaders) are concerned look about the same.

I entirely agree with you on this point. I think that's a Disney management problem and not an imagineering problem. It's not the creative product itself that is the issue. The interior looks amazing IMO.

 

[Sam Magic]

I entirely agree with you on this point. I think that's a Disney management problem and not an imagineering problem. It's not the creative product itself that is the issue. The interior looks amazing IMO.

I agree with this completely. Honestly the exterior disappoints me more than anything else.

This entire resort reeks of upper-level management interference. I by no means think the imagineers have lost their touch--look at Galaxy's Edge. But I do think the imagineers are being held back from Disney management. Though I suppose that's what occurs when you put the guy responsible for moving merchandise in charge of the parks and resorts.

 

[jt04]

Noted.

My only response to the Disney Park Blog post is that "Spain, Mexico, and the American Southwest" are three very very different spaces and styles. So it seems as though they wanted to do a "vague, chic, spanish style hotel", built Destino and then claimed it was inspired by three different countries that as far as most Americans (and I suppose the majority of Disney leaders) are concerned look about the same.

Reflects different Spanish based cultural influences since there isn't just one. Works perfectly in my opinion.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Mom, Dad, are we staying at the hotel with the wilderness theme that has a geyser ?
Nope
Ok, the one with the giraffes right outside the window?
Nope
The one you can see the park from from right out the window and even walk to Magic Kingdom?
Nope
Ugh ok, that fancy one with the band in the lobby that looks like something from Mary Poppins?
Nope
Oh the one that has the fire torch lights and makes you feel like it's the south Pacific?
Nope
The one with the huge rooms and south Florida beach vibe, not the best but at least the rooms are cool.
Nope
Ok, the horse one...least the pools are decent and we can walk to the Springs, right?
Nope
Well which one?
Remember that really nice Marriott we stayed at in Arizona last year...sorta like that. But with Sky Gondolas!

 

[GlacierGlacier]

Mom, Dad, are we staying at the hotel with the wilderness theme that has a geyser ?
Nope
Ok, the one with the giraffes right outside the window?
Nope
The one you can see the park from from right out the window and even walk to Magic Kingdom?
Nope
Ugh ok, that fancy one with the band in the lobby that looks like something from Mary Poppins?
Nope
Oh the one that has the fire torch lights and makes you feel like it's the south Pacific?
Nope
The one with the huge rooms and south Florida beach vibe, not the best but at least the rooms are cool.
Nope
Ok, the horse one...least the pools are decent and we can walk to the Springs, right?
Nope
Well which one?
Remember that really nice Marriott we stayed at in Arizona last year...sorta like that. But with Sky Gondolas!

Again, you are mis-informed. Coronado does not have the Skyliner.

And i'm fairly certain there are people who appreciate CSR just as much as you appreciate every other resort. And people who despise other resorts more.