General Grizz said:
E-Ride is a gift shop and meet and greet. Have you not heard the plans around management years ago - the plans that CoP, the skyway, and Galaxy Palace would be converted into a GIFT SHOP with a "small attraction?"
I have also heard the same thing about 2k...that does not mean it will come to pass? All I am said was that if you combine all that space on that side of t-land then the chances of a larger ride would show up. If CoP stays then I am sure that a gift shop and only a gift shop would show up with the remaining space around skyway...seeing as the bathrooms are there.
General Grizz said:
I have no confidence in management. Why? Because they don't CARE about what message a new attraction gives. They don't care about substance. They care about budget, and they care about making cash. That's why Stitch's Great Escape is so poor. Not only does it have nothing to do with Tomorrowland -- it also talks down to kids, scares them, and is mass marketed with two whole gift shops.
Believe me I know you don't have any confidence in management, but there are some of us who do. And yes you are right it really has turned into just about the bling. BUT, as I am sure you are aware, that same $$$ is what goes into adding onto other rides and what nots all around the park. If the parks and resorts are not making money, how many people will be upset that new rides will come out under budget because they could not the money they really needed. For me, I want management to milk every cent they can out of the guest.
General Grizz said:
Short term, Disney can benefit from a new coaster with thrill fans (which isn't everyone at the Magic Kingdom, by far). But families who repeat their visits to Disney will eventually get the hint that Disney has lost its magic. Its magic in variety, its magic in message, its magic in nostalgia. Then they'll turn away over the years, seeing the $60 dollar tickets and finding Disney nothing but a 1971 Castle with 2025 marketing taking over the park, living off the past and whole land dedicated to an Emporium or pin store. And Six Flags would be no more magical for them. And the joke would be on Disney.
I am glade we can agree on that, but I really don't think that Disney will ever turn into what you said above. On the soul ground that Disney stands above the rest on so many levels. And besides, trying to compare WDW to Six Flags now or even in 50 years would be comparing apples and oranges. Granted they are both fruits but beyond that they are so different.
General Grizz said:
If CoP OR Timekeeper are shut down, I just don't have the confidence that Disney will replace them with E-ticket attractions that (A) fit in the spirit of Tomorrowland or (B) give the same inspiring message the original attractions in these areas did.
Yes, but this goes back into something I said here along time ago here. The way the parks are now is how I like them. They are advertising there own products and thus keeping the company afloat. I am sure that if a TV show came on TV with he basic idea of CoP in it...and somehow that show was a hit, CoP would have a attendance level that I am sure would beat even space. That is just how the public thinks today. Now getting into what really belongs in T-land and does not really falls on ones personal views on the land. I feel that stitch fits way better that AE. AE would have done nicely in MGM but who am I to judge where it does. But on point (B), I do believe that it is possible to change a ride and have a whole new inspiring message.
General Grizz said:
On top of that, CoP is the ONLY attraction Walt told his Imagineers to keep. If it closes in Magic Kingdom, it should at least be brought to Epcot or Disneyland. Although I've never seen the ride that empty (I've only heard and seen great reports on these forums - just like there were so little an hour, other reports say the line at CoP was greater than Space one day), I will agree that average audiences could be better.
I think thought that CoP is the ONLY ride that Walt wanted to keep around forever is one of the only reasons that I am not 100% for tearing the thing down. But I also keep in my mind that Walt did a lot of crazy things. Things that if his brother had not been around the tweak/fix would have meant the end of the company from the start. Also believe that if for some reason, CoP starting to have 0 people riding it (just going all out here) with crazy 21st century enhancements, Walt himself would have wanted the ride to go....its just basic.
General Grizz said:
That's why, for example, Disney should have advertised (instead of closed) Walt Disney's Carousel of Progress on his 100 Years of Magic. (What's this, make an MGM hat with a gift shop underneath and close the ride he wanted open? Sell a few pins and try to kill his message?) That's why the Tomorrowland Transit Authority should actually DESCRIBE the ride - CoP is the only attraction not described. Plus, a great update in CoP would add great reridability. There is great potential to add the 21st century "wow" factor to Carousel of Progress. Let's see what they do over to Disneyland's Tiki Room.
With that, by all means PLZ turn it into a E-ride. I really really REALLY do belive, that a E-ride can be made, that is for the whole family.
General Grizz said:
If Tomorrowland wants to be all coasters and Stitch rides, what would happen? The family would no longer be important. Heck, Carousel of Progress is ABOUT family. And, you know, I am always proud when I ride Space Mountain and directly after visit the Hall of Presidents. It makes me proud that Disney has something for everyone - seniors, kids, enthusiasts, parents - and things everyone can experience together. Next to Buzz Lightyear's SpaceRanger Spin is the Carousel of Progress. How cool is that?!
Very cool, very cool. But if Buzz has a 20 mins wait and CoP has no one on...I think it becomes time for change.
General Grizz said:
I haven't heard anything mass negative about "Wishes" or "Turtle Talk with Crush." So what if some people don't like certain new rides? Some people don't like the old rides either, as demonstrated by the original poster.
I don't know if we read the same board, but I have read people here wanting Wishes blow away and for Fantasy to come back...or the whole big thing with not even with just Crush...but all of Nemo (and friends) invading Seas. I personally love both....in fact there has yet to be a thing at WDW that was replaced by something old with something new that I have not been happy about.
BeachClubVillas said:
There's really no need to make this personal, is there? This is a very nice, civil thread with people offering their opinions on a particular ride.
I am unsure how I could have directed my comments to grizz without it being personal...just like I am talking personally to you know

But I am sure that you know as well as I do, that there is a big diff between offering ones opinion and out right eating someone else’s up.
Anywho, a message I always walk away with in CoP is that things are going to change, weather we like them or not they are going to change. Can change be good yes, can it be bad yes.
Now if only I can get ToD back.

CHANGE IS BAD!
