Alison1975
Well-Known Member
WHOA! My kids are homeschooled..and Disney nuts..and are no way left out of what their friends like,see or do.. try not to be so darn stereotypical!
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
CNN article on Disney parks
- Thread starter Did Knee
- Start date
WHOA! My kids are homeschooled..and Disney nuts..and are no way left out of what their friends like,see or do.. try not to be so darn stereotypical!
googilycub
Active Member
Things change. Again just because someone can not afford something does not mean that it is overpriced, regardless of history.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
Ah, my least favorite WDW topic, affordability. I've posted the below before but it always seems to have new audiences each time I post it so I'll post it again.
Disney started offering hopper tickets that included all attractions with the opening of Epcot in 1982. Disney-MGM Studios opened in 1989, followed by DAK in 1998. The following 10-year spans compare median household income with ticket prices, assuming a WDW vacation in 1982 was 3 days (2 days for MK, 1 day for Epcot) and grew by one day as each park was added.
1982
Median Household Income: $19,004
3-Day WDW ticket ($35) price-per-day: $11.67
Ticket/income percentage: 0.0614%
1992
Median Household Income: $29,448
4-Day WDW ticket ($130.46) price-per-day: $32.62
Ticket/income percentage: 0.11076%
2002
Median Household Income: $41,620
5-Day WDW ticket ($243.89) price-per-day: $48.78
Ticket/income percentage: 0.11720%
2012
Median Household Income: $50,054 (estimated)
5-Day WDW ticket ($484.58) price-per-day: $96.92
Ticket/income percentage: 0.19362%
What's obvious is that even the ticket price-per-day has grown tremendously since 1982. In addition, WDW has grown (which is good), meaning that the length of a "full" WDW vacation has grown as well, making it even more difficult for families to afford WDW. Of course, families can simply buy three-day tickets today but, as we all know, today's WDW tickets are heavily front-loaded. Today's WDW comes out significantly less favorable (in terms of cost) when comparing a 3-day ticket in 1982 to a 3-day ticket in 2012.
A 2012 3-day base ticket (i.e. no hopping and no water parks) costs $257.73. Even as recently as 10 years ago, a 3-day Ultimate Hopper (which included hopping & water parks) cost $164.01, or $209.89 adjusted for inflation. Of course, as noted above, a 1982 3-day World Passport (included hopping) cost $35.00, or $83.50 adjusted for inflation. That's less than a one-day base ticket in 2012.
DVC4bestvacations
Well-Known Member
He/She wants to disagree with us. or doesnt get it. or has unlimited funds
rnese
Well-Known Member
The people who speak ill of Disney do so because they think they are "better" than the rest of us. THEY believe that since most Americans like Disney, they dislike it out of spite. "Look at me! I'm not conforming to the culture. Aren't I 'hip' and so anti-capitalist? I think I'll go hug a tree!"
googilycub
Active Member
When I don't think that I am getting a good deal for my dollar. As I pointed out, the three of us went to Disney for about $50 a day for all of us to get in the door. For me to spend a day at the Museum of Science and Industy in Chicago will cost me $51 just to get in the door. That does not include the extras at the Museum, like the coal mine tour, the Omnimax film or a walkthrough on a German sub. The $50 to get into the parks pays for me to go on everything there.
I can't say a magic number for when I will feel that WDW is overpriced. It will no doubt come in the middle of a trip, when I walk around wondering why I paid for this. I am a long way from that point.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
I know lots of people (capitalists too) who simply don't like any amusement park for all the usual reasons. Of course, they like things I don't. (I suspect I'd like golf more if I was any good at it.
)Until recent maintenance issues and price increases, I used to think WDW was the best place in the world. Perhaps because I've had decades dealing with these people, I've come to accept that many genuinely dislike WDW without any ulterior motive.
bubbles1812
Well-Known Member
I think by using the technical definition you are just doing that.. Getting technical. Use how most people think of nature. I think they'd say there is a difference between a nature of a national park vs WDW. They don't use that über technical definition. But I think most have a sense of the difference between the two.
Also, come on, you know there is a difference between The Disney Co and the US gov and what we are talking about here. You are again getting technical as well about the use of the word "maintained." I don't think street sweepers come out every night in Yellowstone as they do in the magic kingdom. Again, a difference most people seem to easily clue into though you seem to need the dictionary. But you want to be right, so ok... WDW is totally nature and any nature related vacation where you aren't butt naked in the wilderness making your own clothes miles from civilization is totally the same thing as being in WDW.
googilycub
Active Member
Or just plain old disagrees with you. That is the wonderful things about opinoins and perceptions. Just because YOU think it is overpriced, does not mean everyone has too. Something being overpiced is a perception, and not everyone has the same perception on everything.
I now remember why I stopped posting on this board. If you disagree with someones opinoin, you just must not "get it".
DVC4bestvacations
Well-Known Member
Easy there gunfighter!
Just because someone Chooses not to vacation at WDW doesnt make them anti capitalists. They are exercising there right to choose. Thank god we have that right! Without it we might not have Walt Disney World.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
We're trying to understand why you think current WDW prices are acceptable, especially since prices are significantly higher than they were just a few years ago, maintenance is deplorable by traditional WDW standards, and it looks like WDW will go over a decade without a major "good" expansion after building 3 entire theme parks in 16 years. I've repeatedly used historical data to support my position yet you still stay WDW is not overpriced. When I ask you what you would consider overpriced, your answer is: "I can't say a magic number for when I will feel that WDW is overpriced."Or just plain old disagrees with you. That is the wonderful things about opinoins and perceptions. Just because YOU think it is overpriced, does not mean everyone has too. Something being overpiced is a perception, and not everyone has the same perception on everything.
I now remember why I stopped posting on this board. If you disagree with someones opinoin, you just must not "get it".
For those of us who have loved WDW for decades and are frustrated by Disney management's treatment of it in recent years, your attitude is disappointing. Frankly, it exactly because of people like you that Disney management thinks they can get away with 8% price increases year-after-year, all the while letting their attractions fall apart. Your attitude is like writing a blank check to Disney which, unfortunately, affects the rest of us who don't feel Disney management deserves a blank check.
I look forward to reading more posts from you but hope you can put into better words your view of WDW's prices. Perhaps if you could word your position strongly, it would help us realize WDW is a good value.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
My take on the overpriced debate: WDW is not overpriced. If it was people would stop going. TWDC is charging what it can get away with and maximizing profits. Is my $9 beer at a baseball game overpriced? Nope. People want beer and are willing to pay a premium to enhance their experience. IMHO WDW is expensive and is not a great value (neither is my beer at the ball game) but I still go and pay for it. I more equate overpriced with something that is not selling because the price is too high. I guess I'm splitting hairs here but there is a distinction between something being a poor value and being overpriced.
I think a good argument can be made that WDW is a poor value compared to itself from before the magic your way tickets came out. The large price increases were not backed with major additions over the past decade so I would say it's not a good value when compard to its past self. Not everything needs to be a good value to be worth doing.
I think a good argument can be made that WDW is a poor value compared to itself from before the magic your way tickets came out. The large price increases were not backed with major additions over the past decade so I would say it's not a good value when compard to its past self. Not everything needs to be a good value to be worth doing.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
My take on Disney haters: there are many different kinds. Here are a few I know personally:
1) The Anti person. Some people just like to be contrary to popular trends. They want to show everyone how they know so much more than the average Joe. They hate Disney because so many people love it.
2). The vacation haters. People who either don't like to travel, don't like to vacation with their family (especially their kids) or don't like theme parks. To them a vacation is sitting on the couch for a week or going away with just the guys for a long weekend or playing golf. They hate Disney because it allows them an excuse not to take the wife and kids there.
3). The anti-corporate people. They hate Disney because it's too corporate. When you run into these people just ask them what kind of car they drive. What car can you buy in America that is not made by a large corporation? Unless you have $150K for a Tesla not many.
4). The beach people. To them there is only 1 place to go on vacation and it has sand and waves. I can't necessarily blame them since I love the beach too, but I think there is room for both.
5). The Disney was great, but now it sucks crowd. This one is pretty self explanatory if you spend any time on these boards. While I am not in agreement with these folks they do make some points that are tough to argue with.
1) The Anti person. Some people just like to be contrary to popular trends. They want to show everyone how they know so much more than the average Joe. They hate Disney because so many people love it.
2). The vacation haters. People who either don't like to travel, don't like to vacation with their family (especially their kids) or don't like theme parks. To them a vacation is sitting on the couch for a week or going away with just the guys for a long weekend or playing golf. They hate Disney because it allows them an excuse not to take the wife and kids there.
3). The anti-corporate people. They hate Disney because it's too corporate. When you run into these people just ask them what kind of car they drive. What car can you buy in America that is not made by a large corporation? Unless you have $150K for a Tesla not many.
4). The beach people. To them there is only 1 place to go on vacation and it has sand and waves. I can't necessarily blame them since I love the beach too, but I think there is room for both.
5). The Disney was great, but now it sucks crowd. This one is pretty self explanatory if you spend any time on these boards. While I am not in agreement with these folks they do make some points that are tough to argue with.
draybook
Well-Known Member
Last year we stayed at POFQ. 7 nights/8 days with Free Dining and 6 day base tickets. Total price was $2312 and some change. This year, IF they offer Free Dining, the same exact package will run us $2610. That's an increase of almost $300 in one year. What exactly have they done to justify that increase?
I'm not downing Disney, and we're going whether they offer Free Dining or not. I'm just pointing out the increase and saying that Disney is pricing people out.
I also don't get people that say "people wouldn't go if it was overpriced."
You have many things in life that are overpriced and yet people continue to purchase them. And as it has been stated before, the rate against the dollar is benefiting foreigners and they're filling up the parks. Thus it looks like business is picking back up when in fact it's a larger base of foreign travelers, many of whom I would bet won't come back for a few years, if at all again.
I'm not downing Disney, and we're going whether they offer Free Dining or not. I'm just pointing out the increase and saying that Disney is pricing people out.
I also don't get people that say "people wouldn't go if it was overpriced."
You have many things in life that are overpriced and yet people continue to purchase them. And as it has been stated before, the rate against the dollar is benefiting foreigners and they're filling up the parks. Thus it looks like business is picking back up when in fact it's a larger base of foreign travelers, many of whom I would bet won't come back for a few years, if at all again.
Or possibly they just don't like Disney because it isn't something they enjoy (?) There doesn't always has to be some dark & sinister reason as to why someone dislikes what we like.
JIMINYCR
Well-Known Member
When I start reading articles like that and get to the parts where utterly ridiculous comments are being made, I know what direction the writer is going in with the article, and either decide to finish reading... which starts me screaming and tearing my hair out, or I quickly turn the page. But articles like that will never change my mind about going to WDW again, so it doesn't affect my impression of Disney or alter my life in any way.
But articles like that will never change my mind about going to WDW again, so it doesn't affect my impression of Disney or alter my life in any way.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
You're missing (in my experience) the biggest crowd:
6). The "I don't like amusement parks" crowd. It doesn't matter if it's WDW, Universal, Cedar Point, or Six Flags. They don't like amusement parks. Standing in line for hours, walking for miles in the heat, paying too much for mediocre food, and dealing with large crowds are not their cups of tea. When you think of it that way, why do any of us like amusement parks?
Larry Mondello
Well-Known Member
That's interesting. I can see the increase from 1982-2002 because three theme parks were added as well as several resorts. But I cannot see the 100% increase from 2002-2012 when things have stagnated.
rufio
Well-Known Member
There's a DVC discount in the fall? Go on...
GoofGoof
Premium Member
You're missing (in my experience) the biggest crowd:
6). The "I don't like amusement parks" crowd. It doesn't matter if it's WDW, Universal, Cedar Point, or Six Flags. They don't like amusement parks. Standing in line for hours, walking for miles in the heat, paying too much for mediocre food, and dealing with large crowds is not their cups of tea. When you think of it that way, why do any of us like amusement parks?
I lump them in with the general vacation haters, but they can definitely have their own category