Clone is not a four letter word!

[ClemsonTigger]

Strong feelings both ways about clones have been expressed on this site, so most of us have strong feelings on this topic.

My question is, What is wrong with Clones? Why is it so bad for something like Soarin' or TOT but seems just fine for Main Street, PoTC, SM, HM, TM and many, many others.

What would WDW be if it weren't for cloning? Not that all parks should be carbon copies, I like the idea of having some uniques features at each site, but we still seem to use it like a dirty word...

 

[General Grizz]

Clones aren't by definition bad, per se. Just try to improve them in later years (or match the atmosphere of where it's going). i.e. I'm sure Pooh's Hunny Hunt from TDL would have been much more beneficial than our Winnie the Pooh EDIT: when it was added to Disneyland.

Differences between "clones" do add a lot to both the original and the altered; i.e. Phantom Manor versus the Haunted Mansion.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I don't mind clones at all, I just also like for there to be some attractions exclusive to the Resorts, too. There needs to be something to give me a reason to go to the Disneyland Resort, for example

 

[Pixie Duster]

I agree with Grizz, like there's any shock in that. Clones are perfectly fine, but really if Disney wants to continue to be Disney improvements and progressions should be added.

 

[AEfx]

It's not clones that are bad inherently, it's usually the implementation. In fact, I've always been sad that two of my favorite rides - Alice and Pinoc. from DL - never made it to the MK.

In the case of ToT, in some ways it is an inferior clone. The scene at the top is gone - but then again, they aren't missing much, 'cause I was always sort of disapointed there wasn't "more" to it, but that's another post...

I think clones are great when they a) fit the theme, and b) improve upon the idea. I think some people are upset about Soarin' at Epcot because from what we understand there will be no updates to the ride (though no one knows for sure, of course), and that it doesn't really fit thematically with The Land as it stands. Personally, I'm delighted to have it because it's the only ride from DCA that I like - and Epcot needs an amazing ride like that that everyone can enjoy. M:S and FT are great for some of us, but many people don't enjoy them - especially M:S - and with Horizons and WOM gone there is less and less to do in Future World for people that don't enjoy those types of brief "thrill" rides.

I think many of us have high hopes for MGM to get an enhanced version of the DL Indy ride - maybe combining that ride with the backwards Indy coaster at DLP. But if they just transport the same Indy ride from DL - while personally I would enjoy it - it would seem a little stale.

That's been my thought with all the hoopla about DCA getting ToT - it's a ten year old ride in a shortened form. While I'm glad they got it and it's a nice ride, it doesn't have 1/2 the theming (gardens, etc.) nor the one element that made it truly a "Disney" ride (the scene at the top).

So it all depends on how the clone is done, and how desperate the recipient is for a good ride. It's impossible to say clones are good or bad inherently, just that the Disney company's recent implementation of them has been a bit shoddy.

AEfx

 

[AliciaLuvzDizne]

Clones aren't by definition bad, per se. Just try to improve them in later years (or match the atmosphere of where it's going). i.e. I'm sure Pooh's Hunny Hunt from TDL would have been much more beneficial than our Winnie the Pooh.

Differences between "clones" do add a lot to both the original and the altered; i.e. Phantom Manor versus the Haunted Mansion.

i agree here...
not to mention, a little bit of a difference between "their" rides and "ours" makes big fans of the parks (like us) want to see both versions. I've only ever been to wdw, but I would love to go to DL and see the origonals of some of my favorite rides...how fun!! But if there was NO difference from one park to the other, it wouldnt attract big fans like us.

Maybe we shouldnt call them clones anymore...how about twins...the same in some aspects but different in others :wave:

 

[Lee]

Eh, in general I don't mind the prudent use of clones.
However, I do think that each new generation of an attraction should take a step forward in quality and technology.
Haunted Mansion and Space Mountain for example, improved with each new version. (Well, for Space, at least up until Hong Kong/Disneyland, that remains to be seen.)
Pirates, Pooh and ToT are examples of how NOT to do it.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Well I would say that to me, it wouldn't really be a clone in the sense that if it's new to WDW, then it's original to THAT park. Obviously the literal definition would say that placing the same ride in 2 or more parks is cloning.

I think what people view this as is a lack of creative vision on the part or Imagineering. They look at something like this and think, well nothing new on the horizon, so they're just bringing in more of the same. But it's not really the same if it's new to that park. I'm looking forward to riding Soarin for the first time. It will bring back fond memories, I'm sure, of If You Had Wings.

So I see these types of changes/additions as a good thing sometimes.

 

[ScrapIron]

Isn't it ironic that the imagineers weren't going to do POTC at WDW, but people insisted on it, yet now they lament the attraction that never was-Western River Expedition.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

What we asked for

I fully agree with ScrapIron.

Most of these clones are what we want. For WDW, we fussed about the top attractions from DL because we wanted them here. With some new things being introduced here, much the same has happened in reverse, mostly expressed in DCA.

Even if the Disney braintrust monitored this site and similar sites regularly with a real desire to use this to measure our pulse, what would we get? Our restaurant best and worst lists give the same locations, best and worst hotels the same, and when it comes to attractions, we're ten times worse. I would hate to have the marketing responsibility to decipher what we really do want! :veryconfu

 

[ClemsonTigger]

One big clone

If you want to talk about the biggest cloning, Epcot was (in my opinion) one big clone of the '64 Worlds Fair, not to mention the origin of Mr. Lincoln, Hall of Presidents, IaSW.

But in thinking before typing, as Lee and others have properly stated, there was that technological raising of the bar...

 

[cherrynegra]

I guess I will be the lone dissenter against cloned rides. Perhaps I wouldn't oppose the technology used for an attraction at one park, and rethemed for another park. I would like to see attractions that are unique to each individual park. Yes, I think using the same dark rides but updated is a good idea. But there should be some differences among the parks so that they don't wind up being like some form of SprWal-Mart. As it is, the fact that there are so many unique attractions at TDL REALLY makes me want to visit that park more than say the Paris park.

 

[General Grizz]

A Message from Roy E. Disney

It seems to be getting more and more difficult to keep up with the financial maneuverings at Disney these days... not to mention finding the realities behind the spin.

Tower of Terror opened quite recently at California Adventure, as most of us know, to a huge fanfare and a huge advertising budget to go with it... the TV ads and billboards were everywhere!

To accompany this, Eisner announced a raise in the prices for both Anaheim Parks, raises that implied he was looking for a stampede of some sort... which never happened. So the powers that be have changed their prices again... lowered and discounted them in hopes of attracting more guests, including a one-day "parkhopper" that admits you to both parks for the price of one.

At almost the same time, you may have read about the enormous financial "restructuring" at Disneyland Paris. Part of that restructuring requires the company to both "maintain and add to the attractions" there, so guess what will be built as soon as possible? Why, another Tower of Terror, of course.

Stay tuned to SaveDisney.com to see if this one creates the same lack of interest from the French as the one in Anaheim (and by the way, it'll take about two years to build, so don't expect immediate results!)

Where did creativity go, under current management???

 

[xfkirsten]

I don't think the idea of a clone in and of itself is a bad idea. However, like others have posted, I believe that if they want to clone a ride, they need to incorporate new ride elements that use updated technology. To make the exact same ride at both parks is bad business - why would a guest, say, that lives near Orlando go all the way to Anaheim just to experience the exact same ride they can get at home? But if there is a significant difference between the two versions, it may make the ride somewhat more of a draw.

Also, I think cloning needs to be done in moderation. While I think it's just fine that they occasionally clone, I think they also need to balance that out with brand new, non-clone e-ticket attractions, which has not happened at DL since DCA opened. Otherwise, I am of the opinion that the parks begin to lose their individual identity.

As a side note, Grizz, the one-day DL park hopper mentioned in that article has already been killed.

-Kirsten

 

[StevenT]

I don't mind clones as long as they are an exact clone or improvement on the original. The DCA Tower of Terror is an inferior clone. The building to me just looks goofy. There is no 5th dimension so it's just not as good.

 

[figmentfan]

Having been to Disneyland and WDW, I have mix feelings about cloned rides.

Pirates of the Caribbean (clone) in WDW is better than DL.
Splash Mountain (clone) in WDW is better than DL.
Thunder Mountain in WDW is better than DL.
Haunted Mansion (clone) in WDW is better than DL.
Space Mountain in WDW is better than DL, which is the clone.

Disneyland was built on a tight budget and on a small parcel of land, Magic Kingdom had more money, and had more land to play with. Some clone rides are better than others, and some are not. Hopefully, Soarin will fit into Epcot, become a very popular attraction, and help keep Epcot a very successful theme park.

 

[General Grizz]

Pirates of the Caribbean (clone) in WDW is better than DL

You're the first person I've ever heard this from. Interesting.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Wow, I definitely think Disneyland has a FAR superior Pirates of the Caribbean (it's twice as long!), Thunder Mountain (even if it is stigmatized, now, it has an animatronic goat!) and Space Mountain (wait till you see the new Space Mountain for the 50th...it's awesome!)

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Interesting

Having been to Disneyland and WDW, I have mix feelings about cloned rides.

Pirates of the Caribbean (clone) in WDW is better than DL.
Splash Mountain (clone) in WDW is better than DL.
Thunder Mountain in WDW is better than DL.
Haunted Mansion (clone) in WDW is better than DL.
Space Mountain in WDW is better than DL, which is the clone.

Disneyland was built on a tight budget and on a small parcel of land, Magic Kingdom had more money, and had more land to play with. Some clone rides are better than others, and some are not. Hopefully, Soarin will fit into Epcot, become a very popular attraction, and help keep Epcot a very successful theme park.

I truly love DL and think many things are superior there. I think that WDW has a lot in the "best" category as well. I can't say that I've ever seen your list however.

At least you didn't add IaSW is better at WDW :animwink: :zipit:

 

[Legacy]

Clones are good only in Phase 1 of a new park opening, with maybe one clone in Phase 2 if it is demanded. Pirates in WDW was a Phase 2 clone. Tower of Terror should have been a Phase 1 clone. With parks that have been open for two decades or more (Epcot, Magic Kingdom and Disneyland), clones should not even be considered, unless it is an advancement.

Nobody has mentioned what should be the epitomy of Disney cloning jobs though...

Dinosaur is an exact replica in layout and ride technology as Indiana Jones. However, because of a total overhaul in theming no one realizes that it is even an exact clone. If the CA version of ToT was themed to say... the rumored Geyser Mountain no one would be comparing the attraction, even though it utilizes the same technology. If more clones did that, then we wouldn't have a problem with them in the first place.