Not making fun of him, but he probably doesn't want to be associated with the likes of $lappie (which says something). My apologies, Mr. Bongiovi!!
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Not making fun of him, but he probably doesn't want to be associated with the likes of $lappie (which says something). My apologies, Mr. Bongiovi!!
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Todays musings:
www.foxbusiness.com
www.entrepreneur.com
Disney World prices surge 3,871% over 50 years, chart shows | Fox Business
An animated chart posted online shows how prices at Walt Disney World have increased since the park opened in October 1971, compared to other figures such as wages and rent.
www.foxbusiness.com
What's Going on With the Floods at Disney World? | Entrepreneur
Videos showing waist-deep water, lightning and hail storms have been making the rounds. More on the Disney World floods, here.
www.entrepreneur.com
https:///2022/08/blizzard-beach-refurbishment-closed-indefinitely-kc1/
The Motley Fool's resident Disney defender has already come to the Mouse's rescue on this. Not that he is a full-on Disney cheerleader, but he's not far from it.Todays musings:
Disney World prices surge 3,871% over 50 years, chart shows | Fox Business
An animated chart posted online shows how prices at Walt Disney World have increased since the park opened in October 1971, compared to other figures such as wages and rent.
Sadly, he's right on this part of his take - They keep raising prices and people keep coming.
el_super
Well-Known Member
If the price were to scale with demand, then it's way under where it needs to be.
Pretty much. But doing so years ago they would have priced out a lot of that demand by now, IMHO. Better to have 50 million coming through the gates at $125/each than 20 million coming through at $250/each. Ticket prices also aren't the whole story. They'd have to increase prices of everything at a commensurate rate to keep revenue the same. And the pool to draw from shrinks dramatically at those price points. Not exactly appetizing for a company that relies heavily on their parks for revenue and profits.
The bottom line, sadly, is that they created the mess but think they can rub a lamp and have the Genie get them out of it.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
The fool at least Tries to put Disney dealings in context…even if they don’t win Pulitzers
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
That is correct…because the gate isn’t where the profits are…
It’s in selling the low cost, communist made crap at high profit to the masses. Another thing lost on the “just raise the prices for my magic…” tact.
Shocking that they installed a cheap crap peddler as CEO...
I think this becomes the auto-reply to the "just raise ticket prices" crowd - Deliberately reducing the number of people through the gates to buy the stuff that actually generates the profit margins isn't a strategy for anyone looking to keep their job.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I actually think that should be printed on the bottom of all those DVC and AP car magnets…there’s a fundamental disconnect there.
But for me…it’s more “primal”: Wall Street will never allow attendance drops. Period.
Disney wants to get more guests of all ages to visit in hopes of getting them to purchase unless one is like Universal Orlando where they are enforcing a weekend curfew of no one under 18 allowed in City Walk unless escorted by parent/ guardian, staying at UO resort or seeing a late movie at CW.Shocking that they installed a cheap crap peddler as CEO...
I think this becomes the auto-reply to the "just raise ticket prices" crowd - Deliberately reducing the number of people through the gates to buy the stuff that actually generates the profit margins isn't a strategy for anyone looking to keep their job.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Clearly, they could make up the difference in merchandise sales with higher admission prices. The parks are so underpriced that they offered a paid way to skip the line, and that too is now underpriced and overselling. I'd guess the margin on Genie+ is better than any of the toys sitting on the shelves.
The real problem might just be thinking this is a problem at all. Iger seemed concerned that the crowds would eventually eat up into all that good will the brand had banked, but if people keep paying and keep coming, and now spend wildly on Genie+, it's harder to make the case to Wall Street that the parks are too crowded. Disney could want to position themselves to be a premium brand at a premium price, but it's too difficult to turn down all that good will toward middle america.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
…here we go again.
That’s not the model.
And what Bob Iger did - and I have this on good authority - is went to the lords of Wall Street and not only promised unlimited price potential…but also “growth” potential. More at higher prices…across the board. That’s the real conversation…not what they feed squawk box and announce at D23
el_super
Well-Known Member
What? The make more money on less people in the park model? Of course it is. They just don't, because they don't want to upset people who would be priced out. Hence the weird confusing pricing schemes.
It's the same thing. The parks capacity is pretty much capped where it is, and the demand is still sky-high. The only way they're going to be able to show growth in the long term, is a massive "reset" of the parks business into a premium brand. Significantly raise prices, cover attendance drops with increased revenue, then start to work toward building up attendance again at the higher pricing. None of this is a secret and most of this has been covered by Iger over his last few years.
They got some free dramatics out of the pandemic, but now they're stalled. I'd guess they are worried about an upcoming recession and reluctant to keep pushing prices should they need to pivot quickly into discounting again.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I'm sure they would love to do this, but it's hard to imagine it's feasible. They're not offering premium services (if anything, they're far less premium now than they were 30 years ago despite a higher price tag), and I don't think they can get enough people through the gates, much less sell them enough food and merchandise, at the higher prices to make it work. The parks are built to service the middle class; trying to turn them into an upper class premium brand would essentially require tearing them down and starting over from scratch.
That's all dependent on how high the prices go, of course, but if you're suggesting they start charging $350 a day for a ticket with commensurate increases on merch/food pricing... I don't see how they could attract enough people who could both afford those prices and think the value was there to make it worth it.
I could afford to go to WDW for $350 daily tickets and $50+ mediocre lunches, but why would I want to? There are much better ways to spend that kind of money. Also have to consider that for families it's a price increase that hits repeatedly -- that's not just a $150-200 increase on tickets for one day, it's potentially a $1000 increase for a family of five. They'd be running the risk of pricing out 90% of their customer base.
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el_super
Well-Known Member
That might be what is required... yes. The parks may have been built for the middle class, but they aren't going to be able to service the middle class forever. Populations keep growing, The number of people with access keeps growing. The demand is far and beyond anything that the parks can actually accommodate, today, but what about 10 or 20 years from now?
There's only so many people you can cram into the Magic Kingdom and short supply and high demand necessitates an increased price, whether they are trying to appeal to the middle class or not.
I don't usually like dealing in absolutes, but as a thought exercise I think it's needed to get people out of their comfort zone here.
You can either complain about high prices or you can complain about crowds, but you can't complain about both. You can't have a park that's both cheap to get into and mostly empty.
Saying the parks need to remain cheap and appeal to the middle class, is a vote in favor of Genie+ and all the other pricing schemes.
James Alucobond
Well-Known Member
You can at least complain about the record profits from higher prices and bigger crowds not being reinvested in ways that increase capacity and mitigate crowding.
esskay
Well-Known Member
Don't forget that over the summer theres been a lot of rebookings from pre-covid. I know of a handful of people here in the UK who went back this summer using their already paid for booking from 2019.
This year will be lots of returning trips (pre-paid or otherwise). I don't think we'll get a true crowd level indication until next year.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I'm not arguing about whether the parks need to remain cheap vs. crowd levels from a customer perspective -- I'm arguing from a Disney business perspective. I think they have to keep them relatively cheap and crowded or they're going to lose revenue and profits.
It's not like they can just flip a switch to dump the middle class and pull in the upper class. Their entire business model is built around the middle class -- even their "deluxe" hotels aren't remotely similar to an actual upper class luxury resort -- and I don't see any avenue for them to change that (at least not any way that would be worth doing due to the expense required). They can't get enough attendance at true luxury prices to offset the F&B and merchandise losses, because they don't offer the kind of experience (in multiple ways) that can attract that clientele in large enough numbers to make up the difference.
They have to walk a fine line. Increasing the price in an attempt to lower demand is something they can try (and I'm on board with that), but they can't afford to price out their customer base because there's no easy way to replace them.
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This Wednesday at 4:30 ET is the Q3 call. Thread for it here:
forums.wdwmagic.com
Disney’s Q3 FY22 Earnings Results Webcast
The Walt Disney Company will discuss fiscal third quarter 2022 financial results via a live audio webcast beginning at 4:30 p.m. ET / 1:30 p.m. PT on Wednesday, August 10, 2022. https://thewaltdisneycompany.com/disneys-q3-fy22-earnings-results-webcast/
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Theme parks are not a “premium brand”. People need to stop telling themselves what is fundamentally false.