Changes to table service dining cancellation policy - credit card requirement expands

[njDizFan]

And another point, I honestly forget the policy. Do you have to use a credit card or will they except Debit cards?

Not everyone has a credit card, so if you have bad credit you don't get an ADR?

 

[wdw71fan]

The answer is that it's likely that all sit downs will eventually be completely pre-pay, and that'll you pay for alcohol or any 'plus' items you wish to add to the meal..


that would require a massive menu and pricing overall, but it's not impossible, and it would stop ALL of the problems.

 

[startraveler]

I haven't read all these posts. Before I comment I want to say I've never been to WDW in July, Christmas or Spring Break - but have been April, May, June, August, Sept, Oct and Nov - so my experience is based on those months over the past 20+ years.
When I was a kid my parents didn't make reservations as they didn't know what we'd be up for or if I'd be tired. But we hadn't "prepaid" for it with a dining plan obviously. We never went hungry and I ate at lots of great places.
We tend to make reservations now (mid 90s on) only for something very special - like when we want to go to a resort to eat - and we check day of for anywhere else we eat. But we don't worry about whether we get in somewhere since we are not on the dining plan. We just grab a hotdog and get on with it. But in the last 10 years we have walked up to Cinderalla's Royal Table (before it was a proper character meal); Le Cellier; Tokyo Dining; Rose and Crown; Flying Fish; Liberty Tree Inn; The Plaza; Garden Grill; Norway before it was a princess meal; Mexico; Sci Fi; Yak and Yeki - just to name a few. We got hungry. Looked around where we were and got a table somewhere.
I think that people feel they need to make reservations because they have already Paid for their meals with the dining plan. They are afraid they won't get the best deal or that they won't use their credits, etc. I think if Disney just had the dining plan for QS where you don't need to make ADR that would solve some problems. The TS places would go back to reservations made closer to the time you want to eat. Maybe people wouldn't feel so paniced about getting ADRs so far in advance. Also you wouldn't have to eat so much each day.
Just saying...

 

[mrksmpsn]

I think though that what you are describing is becoming harder and harder to do as people make multiple ADRs--seating just isn't available. Even the first week of December which is supposed to be the slowest time of year you hear at the Epcot restaurants "sorry but I don't have any available seating until x DAYS later." I am sure this is due in part to the Candlelight Processional, but it doesn't matter if you are going to Disney and hope to have a decent restaurant style meal.

I have read on other boards here that the dining plans do encourage some folks to maximize their experience--and to be fair I can see why folks make ADRs for more than one place because their touring plans can change. Also many people just aren't wired to plan 180 days in advance.

We can only hope that the CC charge makes meal availability better for everyone. At least they haven't taken away ADRs so we still have a chance to get to eat where you want. I do wish they would allow you to cancel up to 12 hours out though--if you are in the parks and decide you don't want a breakfast at Crystal Palace the next day you have to find a phone to make the cancellation or you would be charged. So any cancellations for the next day would have to be made in the morning before you went to the parks the day before to avoid the CC charge.

 

[COProgressFan]

The answer is that it's likely that all sit downs will eventually be completely pre-pay, and that'll you pay for alcohol or any 'plus' items you wish to add to the meal..


that would require a massive menu and pricing overall, but it's not impossible, and it would stop ALL of the problems.

Great plan....by the way, can you tell me what you'd like for lunch on April 15th, 2012? just wondering...:ROFLOL:

 

[unkadug]

Great plan....by the way, can you tell me what you'd like for lunch on April 15th, 2012? just wondering...:ROFLOL:

Fried chicken would be nice.


If you can make a plan then you should be able to stick to that plan. :shrug:
(after all, you DID plan on going to Disney)

 

[lebeau]

Agreed. Of course the penalty wouldn't be on the top of my mind in the case of an emergency, but a few hours later it would definitely add insult to injury...literally.

This is what I was trying to convey to certain posters who were attacking me for not fighting hard enough to get my money back from Disney. At the moment, it's not your top priority. But later on, it sure stings.

But some people are so hell-bent on defending Disney no matter what, they can never admit when Disney is in the wrong.

 

[lebeau]

My point was that it would take something VERY DAMN IMPORTANT to make me miss a ressie.. and that the money would likely seem insignificant against whatever issue i was facing that preventing from being there..

The logic i am stating is that you have obligated yourself to go to dinner at restaurant XYZ at Whatever-o-clock. You are making a commitment that you are eating there, and that you expect disney to hold space for you. Disney agrees to this, and holds space accordingly for you and your party. If you don't show up, regardless of reason, why is it disney's fault, and why must disney absorb the lost revenue? They have lived up to their side of the commitment by having your table held, staffing the restaurant, preparing foods, and keeping the lights on.. You broke the agreement , not them..

Let me stop yopu right here. You're talking about "no shows". We're talking about cancellations less than 24 hours in advance, but still with reasonable notice.

No shows probably don't cost Disney all that much in lost revenues since these restaurants have people waiting for walk-ups most of the time. But cancelations an hour, 2 hours or 4 hours in advance are very unlikely to result in empty tables.

If Disney wants to charge for no shows, I wouldn't object. I doubt many would. So, let's stop talking about no shows. We're in agreement there.

Trust in the fact, that if there was a kitchen fire at Crystal Palace and it wasn't available for your reservation that evening, disney would refund your money 100%, likely find you alternative dining arrangements (like they did recently with coral reef) and possible discount or plus the meal as compensation..

There's a pretty big difference between a kicthen fire and a sick kid. Disney should be responsible for taking care of their customers in the event of a kitchen fire. Parents should be responsible and cancel pending reservations if their kid is sick. But they shouldn't get penalized for a bit of bad luck.

You're really bad at making comparisons.

Why shouldn't the host be afforded the same courtesy as the guest?

Because these are not remotely similar.

Perhaps I don't have a problem with this policy because I've never abused the current system, and despise the people that do?

I am so sick of people defending this policy assuming that anyone who doesn't like it is abusing the system. If you still think that, you haven't been reading our posts. The system will still be relatively easy to abuse. That's not the issue. The probelm is honest folks with bad luck will get caught in the crossfire.

I'm guessing you just haven't had any bad luck regarding reservations. Good for you. But that doesn't make you special. Odds are, if you have kids, you're going to run into one of these situations some day. And if this policy is still in place, you'll feel differently I bet.

Last, but not least.... At this point... Thems-The-Rules.. If you don't like it, go somewhere else... You won't change the policy, and I don't want you to. It discourages morons from double, triple, or quadruple booking because they can't be adults and make a decision ahead of time.. And it has the added bonus of freeing up space for paying customers that are sick-and-tired of beating their head against a wall when trying to get a spot at a restaurant time-and-time again.

Sigh. Still singiong that song?

Telling people to get over it is even less effective than complaining about the new policy. If enough people complain about the policy, Disney will change it.

I'm sick of trying to explain to you how easy this policy is to circumvent. If you want to go on thinking it's going to cut down on double booking in some significant way, go on thinking that. You're likely to be disappointed when you still can't get a walk-up to O'Hana.

 

[lebeau]

To clarify my main point:

The double bookers will be fine. They'll learn the new rules and avoid the penalty by barely canceling before the 24 hour mark.

It's the people who don't double book but might have to cancel anyway who are really going to be hurt by this.

So to applaud Disney for cracking down on the "morons" who double-book is really silly IMO. I can bet that it'll still continue at similar rates, while many other guests on the side will suffer anyway.

Exactly. And yet, that's not going to stop from some posters from trumpeting this as a great way to stop double bookers and insisting that anyone who played by the rules will be compensated fairly.

They are so intent on seeing things their way, they don't even feel the need to explain how they think this will cut down on double bookers or increase walk-ups. In short, some posters just aren't listening to reason.

 

[lebeau]

Oh really, now?

I just did a quick search - you have posted 65 MESSAGES IN THIS THREAD! A thread of just over 300 replies. One out of SIX posts in this thread is from you. I think this one will make 4 for me.

It's simply obnoxious, especially since I'm not counting the other thread you have been whining in.

Like I said before, you don't want to read my posts put me on "ignore". You're the only one complaining. If you don't want to discuss this issue with me, don't. You whining about my posts is far more obnoxious behavior in my opinion.

The principle of the matter is - you don't have any integrity if you did not stand up for your rights.

This from the guy telling me to stop posting? :shrug:

Oh, I know, you've said it 800 times, you were tired, it was raining, blah blah blah.

It seems 800 wasn't enough for you to get the point. Almost seems like you just want to start a fight or something...

Did you call the next day to speak to guest services? If the merchant (Disney) was unwilling to help, did you file a chargeback with your credit card company?

The point is, you are here bellyaching a year and a half later, admit you are still "angry" (your words, which if it's true is very unhealthy) and are going on and on when you could have easily handled it at the time if you had chosen to.

I've also admitted I should have followed up more. However, I shouldn't have been put in a position where a 20 minute phone call was insufficient to deal with this. That's bad customer service pure and simple.

For you to defend this and put it all on me as the customer shows a lack of understanding regarding the service industry. Or a desire to make something personal. I'm not sure which.

Should it have happened? Nope. But by not standing up for yourself, no one is at fault there was no resolution but you.

Thank you. Then we are in agreement. What was your point again? :brick:

I'm sorry I have to be so blunt, I'm not "not getting" anything, intentionally or not - I GET IT. Disney screwed up, and you took it and didn't stand up for yourself, and instead are whining in about 50 posts in this thread about it.

So you can try to turn this around on me any way you please, but you are the one who didn't stand up for yourself, you are the one that had all the power to either get Disney to fix it, or to refuse the charge. You did neither. I would not have brought this up if you hadn't felt the need to reply to nearly EVERY SINGLE posting, posting 2, 3, more times in a row over and over, anyone made about this system and repeat your little "I didn't stand up for myself and am ANGRY!" posts. I made two postings regarding your whining, you replied with three, and continued to talk about me in other replies.

So, I posted too many times? Is that what you're on about? I really don't know.

Guess the truth gets under your skin.

I'm not sure what truth that might be.

While you are accusing other people of not understanding you and your whines, you refuse to see why this is necessary. It was necessary because of system abuse.

One, why do you feel the need to characterize all my posts as whines? I do not feel that I am whining at all. I'm making what I feel are very reasonable points. Saying I'm "whining" over and over again does not contribute to the civil tone of this discussion. It's just being beligerent. Can we move on from that and just focus on the discussion of the policy changes?

I acknowledge there are abuses. That's obvious. The problem is, this policy does little to address them.

And while it may not affect "walk ups", it will certainly open up reservations for people who make them in the last 24 hours.

I have acknowledged that repeatedly. Some people will get liucky with "hail mary" essies in the 1 day window. I would expect this to benefit locals mostly as tourists will already have a ressie in place. And if it is one that involves a cc hold, they won't be able to attempt that "hail mary" upgrade because they will be locked into their own reservation.

While it may not be the "I wanna walk in and sit down at any restaurant whenever I please" folks, for many people, having to plan a day in advance is a heck of a lot better than 6+ months.

Oh, so you think there will be a lot of availability in that last 24 hours? I seriously doubt that.

I get it. To be honest, I think you are more mad at yourself for letting it happen than anything else.

You're wrong about that. I dealt with it when it happened. I'm angry about the prospect of it happening again do to this new policy.

Yeah, the first time sucked. Yeah, I think Disney screwed up. Yeah, I probably could have fought harder and got at least $10 back at some point after the fact. But I certainly am not angry with myself. And I don't dwell on this. I haven't thought about it in 18 months except when a policy change brings it up.

You are so barking up the wrong tree. But that's what happens when you make personal assumptions about someone you've never met.

You are so in your little bubble, and have basically replied to most every post in this thread that didn't agree with you - that I am sure this will fall on deaf ears, so I'll take your advice and put you on ignore. To be honest, I feel bad for you, and there is nothing worse to me than someone who has (or had) the power to change the situation and just sat back and did nothing, only to hold a grudge and come whine about it for dozens of posts a year and a half later.

:wave:

:sohappy:

If you, ya know, actually read the postings you will see no one has "defended" Disney.

It was wrong. Duh. I said so myself.

Lots of people have defended Disney. If you agreed with me, why all the personal attacks? That's odd behavior.

But...he did nothing at all to help himself resolve it. As a consumer, it's your duty to stand up for your rights - and by doing so you help yourself AND you help other consumers as well. I have zero sympathy for people who don't have the integrity to stand up for themselves, only to whine about it a year and a half later.

Clearly you have zero sympathy.

I did call a few hours before my reservation and spend roughly 20 minutes on the phone with a cast member who ended the call by saying there was nothing that could be done. I don't know how that counts as "doing nothing".

You've got a very strange hang-up where that's concerned...

If he really believed in the PRINCIPLE, as people keep saying, he sure didn't do anything about it, and you can have all the principle in the world but if you don't stand up for it, it's meaningless.

This isn't exactly civil rights. It's a fee. And I understood Disney's policy. So I wasn't going to go to the matt faighting over it. Still es me off though. Not sure what about that es you off so much. :shrug:

Someone was saying, "this isn't fair for people with small kids..." and I was simply pointing out all the other people who it could be "unfair" to, as in, an inconvenience that may be exacerbated by personal circumstances. Just because you have kids doesn't make you any more special than anyone else - although it's a prevailing thought unfortunately as the entitled generation are becoming parents themselves, and assuming the world needs to move/revolve around their kids, or that they deserve some special consideration for it, when in fact every human being on the planet is either a parent, a child, or both.

Which Disney should take into account when making policies such as this...

The point is, it's going to be a slight inconvenience.

...to you. Others feel differently.

But it also may help.

It may. But you have yet to put forth a theory as to how it will help in any major way.

It's something called a compromise. Does this perfect anything? No, but now there will be more chances in the last 24 hours to get a reservation, and the restaurants will not book as quickly as they did before because of those DISney Mom's who booked three or four meals a night for a two-week trip just because they worked the system, making everyone suffer.

Again, not likely to slow down double booking much except at the 24 hour window. Maybe get you some wiggle room at Day 179. Is it worth compromising the customer experience for that?

Regardless, I'm happy about the change

Earlier you said you thought it was wrong. You confuse me.

- I'm sorry so many are bent out of shape about it, and can't see the benefits here. Unfortunately when people make themselves the victims, logic is the first thing to go out the door.

No one has made themselves a victim. And I think the criticisms of the policy have been nothing but logical. The defenses of the policy have been sketchy sometimes.

For example, you end by saying we "can't see the benefits" but you have yet to explain how this will have much impact at all on double booking.

Feel free to reply though I really am hoping you put me on ignore!

 

[lebeau]

That's a good point. How much leway are they going to allow for tardiness. In 2008 I had an ADR for CP on new years eve. It literaly took me an hour to get to the hub from tomorrowland. We ended up being 20 minutes late. Will they give away your rezzie and charge?

Coming from a restaurant backround I know seating tables is far from an exact science. People will linger and some people want to eat and leave ASAP. But rarely will you get to a restaurant and your table is available immediately. We have to wait for a table so will Disney wait for tardy reservations?

Purely a guess on my part. I will give Disney the benefit of the doubt on this one. My guess is that more often than not if you're 20 minutes late, they will try to seat you and not charge your credit card. At an hour, I'm not so sure.

 

[lebeau]

And another point, I honestly forget the policy. Do you have to use a credit card or will they except Debit cards?

Not everyone has a credit card, so if you have bad credit you don't get an ADR?

I would assume it would have to be a credit card. No way of knowing you could be charged the fee on a debit card. Might now be a balance.

 

[COProgressFan]

Lebeau, I admire your persistence on this topic, which you feel strongly about. I feel strongly about it as well, and agree with just about all of your points.

I have tried and tried, but still don't really see how this benefits guests at all.

I think there are some who just aren't going to see things from a different perspective.

 

[AEfx]

The "average" guest doesn't book 24hrs out either... the "average" guest walks up to a restaurant when they're hungry! The "average" guest won't know about the 24hr cancelation window and the possibility of finding an ADR 24hrs. out. We're the only ones that know that and we'll be getting those ADRs (if there are any available). The only way this would benefit the "average" guest is if Disney let people cancel up until an hour or two before their ADR time... then you'd see some availability right before and a walk up might be a possibility for an "average" guest.

Reservations are a fact of life at Disney.

If you go back and look at my post, I explicitly say that yes, to the average person booking six months out is insane.

However, with restaurants that require reservations, I don't think 24 hours is completely crazy to most people in or out of Disney. Disney is never going to be a place where you can expect to walk up to a character meal - the resort is simply too popular, and those restaurants which used to be "hidden gems" are now promoted to all hell and everyone knows about them. It's never going to go back to the way it was in the 80's (or the way rose colored glasses see it as being then). Dining was no where near the "experience" then as it is now - they simply were restaurants, not the "attractions" they pretty much are now.

As I said, when that "average" guests arrives and discovers this, they used to be told they were stuck for the rest of their vacation.

Now, even if people double book (and, we do not know how Disney will police that - as many of the people who do so will likely be DISney Moms with resort ressies, and ressies tied to your Resort stay, AND a credit card - even if they flip through a bunch of credit cards we have no idea what checks and balances they may institute along with this), in order to avoid the fee, they will have to cancel, which means that likely, yes, there will be more reservations available at the 24 hour mark.

This means that those under the current policy those "average" guests who arrive and find out that they can't just walk up, have a chance to eat where they want the rest of the week. Much better than, "Well, we can get you in to (insert random resort 2nd tier dining)" or, "eat quick service".

Is it perfect? Nope, but clearly it will reduce no-shows, and give more opportunity for guests to get reservations within 24 hours. That's better than what we have now, and I'm willing to give it a try. Disney is far from perfect, and it's laughable when some people say looking at the situation from a balanced perspective is "defending" them - they aren't trying to punish anyone, they are trying to find a way to manage reservations at all these extremely popular places.

As always, though, while discussions are great here - that's why we are here - I encourage people to take their concerns to Disney as well if they don't feel this system will work for them. One can make 72 posts about it online, but that seems like an extreme waste of time if people truly have concerns because they are not taking it to the correct place. Again, it's great discussion fodder - I have made posts in this thread myself, obviously, but if I were concerned this would be detrimental to my experience, or had a poor experience in the past, letting Disney know is ALWAYS the best option, and our responsibility as consumers.

 

[UberPlannerMom]

I don't know why but all of the talk of getting the within 24 hour reservations and other people mentioning getting rid of ADRs made me think of a world where you could only get your reservation from a fastpass machine. Can you picture it? The rope drops at Hollywood and the cast members start yelling, "Follow me for the mass run to Toy Story Midway Mania. Follow Tina for 50's Prime Time. Follow John for Hollywood and Vine..." The kids are yelling at mom, "I wanna ride the Woody ride!" Mom is stressed out, "I know honey but if we don't join the throng of people heading this way we can't eat at the place where you can meet the Einsteins..." At that point mom can't tell where her line went off to and she is starting to panic. "Ahh to heck with it... you can play in the cabinets at IKEA. Let's just go home!" Hahahaha!

 

[Daddymouse]

They ought to do this with all table service places. I can't stand hearing about people booking three and four places because they cannot decide where they want to eat. Tough. Make a decision like the rest of us and free up some tables for those that want to walk up. :brick:

We agree!!:sohappy:

 

[unkadug]

Like ... ignore!

I can't believe that either of you are putting THAT much work into an issue that is such a NON-issue.

 

[menamechris]

The answer is that it's likely that all sit downs will eventually be completely pre-pay, and that'll you pay for alcohol or any 'plus' items you wish to add to the meal..


that would require a massive menu and pricing overall, but it's not impossible, and it would stop ALL of the problems.

Umm..isn't this already called the Disney Dining Plan?

 

[lebeau]

I can't believe that either of you are putting THAT much work into an issue that is such a NON-issue.

It's a conversation. Not work.

I'm amazed at a lot of the pointless conversations that go on around here. There are several long running threads in which people are discussing Marvel coming to the parks for example. And we know that's not going to happen any time soon. But people are still discussing it like its a possibility. I don't get it.

This is a real issue which will have a real impact on a lot of guests. So, yeah, I think it's worth discussing. More so than a lot of other topics here. If you're not interested in participating, why post?

 

[lebeau]

Lebeau, I admire your persistence on this topic, which you feel strongly about. I feel strongly about it as well, and agree with just about all of your points.

I have tried and tried, but still don't really see how this benefits guests at all.

I think there are some who just aren't going to see things from a different perspective.

Thanks for the back-up. And thanks to anyone and everyone who engaged in a civil conversation on the topic. Even if we disagreed.

When this policy change was announced, a lot of people just looked at things at a surface level and cheered what they saw as an attempt to stop double booking. Since double booking effects us all, they saw this as a good thing and stopped there.

Heck, my first reaction was mixed. But the more time I have spent discussing it and going over what I consider to be the likely impact, the less I like this policy change.

I think when people see that it doesn't help with double booking, they will rethink things. Especially if they personally have some unexpected bad luck.

In all honesty, I don't expect this policy change to be permanent. I think Disney will get sick of dealing with the customer complaints and having to mediate who deserves an exception to their policy and who doesn't. I think this will be more effort than its worth in the long run.

My fear is Disney will decide to take a hard line and just take everyone's money. If they decide the extra cash is worth the disgruntled customers, then they will take one more step away from the great company they can be.

Even if Disney does take this hard-line approach. I think a lot of folks are going to be disappointed when it does diddly squat to help with double booking.