Cast Member Standards

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
This topic is always a little loaded, because while it is definitely very noticeable and getting worse by the year, there's also always going to be a subset of entitled types that react like: "That CM didn't reply to my question while grinning ear to ear and call me a Mouseketeer (while being in hour 9 of their 12 hour shift of getting yelled at over and over trying to explain Lightning Lane)... where has the quality gone??"

As someone who was a CM from the mid-00's to mid '10's and is still actively part of the Orlando theme park worker community, I absolutely have noticed the level of enthusiasm from CMs decline significantly since my time there. But I still feel that the average, the level of service from Disney CMs is still better than most places, especially considering all that they have to deal with.

There are a LOT of factors here, and while maybe I'm not touching on anything that hasn't already been said in the thread, this is my perception based on my experience.

1. Staffing. WDW is just too big and the Orlando job market has spread exponentially over the last two decades, and is about to explode even more. It has reached a point where WDW literally can NOT function without the College Program and International Program. What was once a mutually beneficial supplement to the company is now the bread and butter of their frontline workforce. In the past, College Program participants made up a much smaller percentage of overall frontline staffing at WDW. Today, it's gotta be something like 30-50%. If you are at a park at closing time, chances are about 80% of the frontline workers you see are College Program participants.

So they now shuffle in and out more CMs than ever before every few months. This means that the quality of who they accept into the program is lower, the training they get is more expedited, and that at any given time a significant portion of the workforce is new (and honestly there's so much to know about WDW that anyone working there for under a year might as well be "new").

2. WDW has one of the most toxic work environments possible and has built up a corporate culture that rewards intense, cutthroat backstabbing and favoritism and not hard work/passion/enthusiasm. This lowers work ethic all around. Why go "above and beyond" when you watch, over and over again, the apathetic CMs who are merely good at "playing the game" get promoted instead? The full time and part time CMs end up burnt out, and this attitude also carries over to the CP's.

3. Disney has made a visit to WDW so ridiculously expensive AND convoluted. The guests are frustrated. The cast, even if they want to "make magic", have a harder time doing it now when the guests are so frustrated and confused and need constant instruction.

4. The attitude of the general public, basic empathy, and level of entitlement has absolutely plummeted ever since Covid. We've all seen it. Disney leadership IS at least aware of this and has backed off on punishing CM's over frivolous guest complaints because of how awful people have become. Combine this with #3 and, yeah, you get a work environment that's very hard to stay positive in. Note: This is NOT me making a "get off my lawn!" rant! Everyone I know who has worked in the parks since pre-Covid has noticed this decline.

5. Gen Z, which makes up most of the WDW frontline workforce now, in particular has grown up watching their elders get continually crushed by corporate greed and BS and has largely decided they are putting up with none of that. As an elder millennial, I agree with the sentiment, however, I feel that it lends to many of them believing that being asked to try at all at their job = "abuse!"

6. Older generations of Americans became accustomed to associating overly fake-friendly service with loads of corporate speak as "good service", while the younger generations are increasingly viewing that as off-putting, cringey, and at times, condescending. So what one person deems as "apathetic", another might prefer that style of response from an employee.
There is no such thing as "too big." WDW has always been big, but was managed far better than today.

I agree with some of your points, but in general, people need to try more at their jobs. Service work also needs tremendous management. It's not exactly the same thing, but Disney needs to learn from the Ritz-Carlton. I mean, Disney is starting to charge prices that increasingly require premium service to justify.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as "too big." WDW has always been big, but was managed far better than today.

I agree with some of your points, but in general, people need to try more at their jobs. Service work also needs tremendous management. It's not exactly the same thing, but Disney needs to learn from the Ritz-Carlton. I mean, Disney is starting to charge prices that increasingly require premium service to justify.
Four Seasons WDW near Port Orleans is the pinnacle of opulence , guest service which makes the Poly, Grand, Contemporary look small scale. Even when Chapek wined dined and met with the company shareholders was at the Four Seasons where they stayed while at WDW.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
3. Disney has made a visit to WDW so ridiculously expensive AND convoluted. The guests are frustrated. The cast, even if they want to "make magic", have a harder time doing it now when the guests are so frustrated and confused and need constant instruction.
My guess is this is probably the #1 factor, guests are more frustrated than ever due to the various line and mobile order programs, and since they’re paying more than ever they have higher expectations.

Disney has priced itself as a luxury vacation, that comes with luxury vacation expectations. That’s a hard ask for a bunch of theme park employees, even Disney caliber CMs.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
Starting wage with no experience for parks and resorts $20 per hour and up. Seems like more money with not the same stress and responsibility as a plelebotomist at a hospital , 911 operator and TSA staff at MCO that starts at $18 per hour.

Well, this highlights a few things IMO:

1. How desperate Disney is for staffing and getting them to stay if they’re willing to pay this much AND accept lower standards.

2. Those other jobs should pay more! $20 is just barely a living wage for a place like Orlando.

Also I know it’s easy to assume the wdw jobs are not very demanding because of what you see on vacation. And now every job at wdw is the same level of demanding despite having the same base rate. But I promise that many of these jobs are actually very demanding. Some about as demanding as an “unskilled” position can get.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
There is no such thing as "too big." WDW has always been big, but was managed far better than today.
I don’t think I agree with this (except of course about being managed better). They wouldn’t need the absolutely massive college program if Central Florida had enough people willing to work these jobs. It doesn’t. With Epic coming I honestly think all the parks are gonna be struggling for adequate staffing.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
With Epic coming I honestly think all the parks are gonna be struggling for adequate staffing.
They already are.

And even though I believe Universal has a greater need due to the new part, I think Disney is going to be hit harder because a lot of cast members, in both hourly and salaried roles, are jumping ship to Universal to get “opening team” on their resumes, and potentially an opportunity for career growth that evaded them at Disney.

Quite a few of the “new job” notifications I’ve seen on my LinkedIn network are of former Disney and Sea World hourly leaders/trainers/backstage professionals going to salaried leadership roles at Universal opening Epic (or backfilling UOR leaders that went to Epic) - all because their current employer wouldn’t give them a chance.

I’d personally expect more seasonal closures of attractions, stores, restaurants until the situation rectifies itself.
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
Well, this highlights a few things IMO:

1. How desperate Disney is for staffing and getting them to stay if they’re willing to pay this much AND accept lower standards.

2. Those other jobs should pay more! $20 is just barely a living wage for a place like Orlando.

Also I know it’s easy to assume the wdw jobs are not very demanding because of what you see on vacation. And now every job at wdw is the same level of demanding despite having the same base rate. But I promise that many of these jobs are actually very demanding. Some about as demanding as an “unskilled” position can get.
Disney did " tweak" their standards in relaxing their grooming policies ( ie males can have longer beards, hair down to shoulders , male female can have more jewelry , male female to openly sport tattoos etc to attract more to apply for jobs . There was a time where males could not even work if there were not clean shaven.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
There was a time where males could not even work if there were not clear shaven.

I remember those days. Even male character performers, whose faces would never be seen, had to be clean shaven.

When I worked there, it would be bad enough for me because my facial hair can grow so quickly, that I would need to shave twice a day during a long shift
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
One salient point I haven't seen mentioned is that Florida has extremely strict laws regarding immigrant labor. While I don't think this would impact Disney directly, when other businesses that employ undocumented workers no longer have that option, it spreads the available pool of employees in the state even thinner.

Regarding whether Gen Z workers are any different than previous generations - I think every generation is initially bemoaned when they enter the workforce. I suspect part of it is that people forget what it's like to be that young. Human brains don't finish developing until around age 25, and everyone tends to have some blinds spots where they're clueless when they first start working. Everyone talked about how fragile Millennials were, and they ended up being the ones at the core of "Hustle Culture". I think that Gen Z will find their way, but what will not be easily resolved is the sheer number of workers needed. I think when all is said and done with growth in Orlando (Epic, new cruise ships, ever expanding restaurants and resorts, etc.), those numbers will be absolutely staggering.

Regarding rude guest behavior - it does make me sad to hear about a spike in that. I still say that while it's probably a small percentage of guests, I think it stems from this weird online world we live in where instead of feeling like a community, we start to feel like groups of people on these individual 'teams'. I feel like I've seen this a bit with parenting. My parents told me that when they were growing up, anyone in the community could correct them or give them a stern talking to, and that was considered totally normal. While I would probably find that incredibly annoying as a mom, I do note that this is obviously a more community oriented approach. People have a vested interest in your kids and act as an extended set of caregivers towards them. Now, people keep their mouths shut until occasionally someone explodes about some grievance or other. "It's one of those Gentle Parents!" or "It's one of those Draconian Authoritarian Parents!" or "That child is eating a non organic strawberry!" or whatever the case may be, lol. And then it's this dynamic of "Them Against The Idiots!", vs. "we have a mutual, shared responsibility for children in this community".
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
I don’t think I agree with this (except of course about being managed better). They wouldn’t need the absolutely massive college program if Central Florida had enough people willing to work these jobs. It doesn’t. With Epic coming I honestly think all the parks are gonna be struggling for adequate staffing.
That's all management. There is no such thing as struggling for staffing. They'll have to pay more if they need more people or innovate (like the college program) ways of getting more help. If the staffing is poor, again, management issue.

There is no arbitrary point a company becomes "too big" to properly staff. Good companies manage it. There are certainly companies with more staff than Disney.
 

StarWarsGirl

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
So that dissatisfaction is coming out in the Cast Members we're discussing? Got it. Life isn't fair and there is no getting around work for the vast majority of people to make something of themselves. You're in the best place to do that, so go do it. Complaining and thinking politicians are going to change it won't be your ticket to prosperity.

CMs that aren't putting in the work are going to get exactly what they put into it. Many, many CMs are great. The ones that have slipped are a result of poor management, poor hiring, and I believe, some culture shift to an entitled, victim mindset. Having a poor attitude at work is counterproductive to success. If you think you're too good to be a CM, you should do something else. Otherwise, they should be doing the best job they can and some are not doing that. It's noticeable.
I did not make my above comment with regards to politics, but rather with regards to the state of work in general and how employers treat their employees. But my original point was that the negative generational comments. They were made when I was 18-22 and on this board, and they were hurtful (not to mention untrue). They are likely hurtful to anyone young who may be reading this board. Not to mention, if I recall correctly, we were also referred to as lazy and entitled.

You'd get defensive if I said boomers were cranky and out-of-touch with reality. It's the same thing when you make negative generalizations about the younger generations.
 

StarWarsGirl

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Regarding whether Gen Z workers are any different than previous generations - I think every generation is initially bemoaned when they enter the workforce. I suspect part of it is that people forget what it's like to be that young. Human brains don't finish developing until around age 25, and everyone tends to have some blinds spots where they're clueless when they first start working. Everyone talked about how fragile Millennials were, and they ended up being the ones at the core of "Hustle Culture". I think that Gen Z will find their way, but what will not be easily resolved is the sheer number of workers needed. I think when all is said and done with growth in Orlando (Epic, new cruise ships, ever expanding restaurants and resorts, etc.), those numbers will be absolutely staggering
Thank you for this.

Gen Z is also at a disadvantage because they lost some of their formative years to COVID isolation. If anything, we should be giving these young people even more grace when it comes to finding their way.
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
Maybe it’s about understanding the why.

Almost all of my direct reports are GenZ or younger millennials. They’ve been dealt a crap card, but they’re also the best employees I have.

They’re extremely creative, extremely intelligent, and after they understand why something has to be done, extremely driven.
It takes me five an extra minutes of explanation and I get better work out of them than anybody else. And usually with less handholding than their Gen X or boomer peers.
So fire the the boomers and Gen X. Doesn't change the fact that entitlement is becoming a bigger issue. Just look at the growth of the various welfare. By the way, all groups struggle with entitlement and like any group, some will be fantastic. Originally, my point was that the people in the 30 and younger group think they are in worse shape than their parents and need more help.

The fact you're declaring them having a crap hand is proof to why they think they do too. Maybe they do, but that's life. You shouldn't be entitled to anything you didn't earn in the circumstances. There are many examples of crap hands, far worse than people at your office or the people wanting their loans paid.

Some of my direct reports are fantastic 30 and younger MBAs. If you're arguing because you've seen some good 30 and younger people the entitlement issue isn't a thing, I can't convince you. It sounds like you agree it's a thing and that they have every reason to be upset and do a bad job at Disney, however.
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
Thank you for this.

Gen Z is also at a disadvantage because they lost some of their formative years to COVID isolation. If anything, we should be giving these young people even more grace when it comes to finding their way.
Lots of people didn't isolate for very long...like all of Texas and Florida and many other states. Disney was re-opened in July 2020, so only closed about 4 months.

I think this excuse is more than played out.

Disney currently has horrific management and you're seeing it play out in CM quality. That's just a fact. I've seen it. Not all, but way more than before.
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
I did not make my above comment with regards to politics, but rather with regards to the state of work in general and how employers treat their employees. But my original point was that the negative generational comments. They were made when I was 18-22 and on this board, and they were hurtful (not to mention untrue). They are likely hurtful to anyone young who may be reading this board. Not to mention, if I recall correctly, we were also referred to as lazy and entitled.

You'd get defensive if I said boomers were cranky and out-of-touch with reality. It's the same thing when you make negative generalizations about the younger generations.
I actually don't care because neither of us know each other. Plus, I'm not a boomer.

What's true generally doesn't really apply to individuals. I can be critical generally without insulting you personally, which isn't my intent. It's my belief the newer generation has some entitlement concerns and it reflects in the poor jobs they are doing in the service industry (where many work at younger ages). I have a tons of personal experience seeing the slip in Disney CM performance and generally in every day life. Doesn't mean I'm right, but it's what I see.
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
I remember those days. Even male character performers, whose faces would never be seen, had to be clean shaven.

When I worked there, it would be bad enough for me because my facial hair can grow so quickly, that I would need to shave twice a day during a long shift
Like a boss. We miss you there.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
So fire the the boomers and Gen X.
Why? They haven’t done anything to warrant termination.

Additionally, they all do excellent work and their experience has no substitute.

I’m fortunate my predecessor hired a good team (and I’ve attempted to keep that going with my hires), but I also recognize the different traits among the various generations - and most importantly, the WHY behind that. Which is how I learned to turn their traits into a benefit.

Also, keeping in line with one of this thread’s main points, I am beyond certain that I would not be allowed to backfill anyone from my team if they were to leave or be terminated.
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
Why? They haven’t done anything to warrant termination.

Additionally, they all do excellent work and their experience has no substitute.

I’m fortunate my predecessor hired a good team (and I’ve attempted to keep that going with my hires), but I also recognize the different traits among the various generations - and most importantly, the WHY behind that. Which is how I learned to turn their traits into a benefit.

Also, keeping in line with one of this thread’s main points, I am beyond certain that I would not be allowed to backfill anyone from my team if they were to leave or be terminated.
Oh, sounded like they were terrible in comparison.
 

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