Cash-Strapped Disney

[WDW Pro]

I don't know Chapek personally and don't at all like what I've heard about him, but his seems like eminently the better plan. It just jives well with a philosophy of "Do one thing well" or "small victories" instead of "biting off more than you can chew." Ok, enough cliches. But Iger's scale of wanting to open everything up at once boggles the mind. It seems more prudent to demonstrate safety and quality in small chunks that are in match-step with demand, and then use what is learned and known to be achievable and scale those up to other properties.

Going this route also means if things had to close back up again (like signs are pointing to now), you didn't blow all your cash opening too much too soon.



If this is true, the company is poorly managed at its very core. It wouldn't be just an occurence of Chapek or from COVID, this type of chaotic, disorganized, environment where factions go "rogue" and thus are allowed to affect the company's money and public image is a reflection of the norm during much of Iger's tenure. Stuff like this doesn't just happen overnight.

It's an issue that has been growing over the past four years or so.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

But that description also described School House Rock, the thing that taught so many children for decades.

It can be done in a way that doesn't denigrate the original message or anything.

Oh, now that's a redo I could get behind!

Would love to see some SR in WDW!

Interesting anecdote: do you know who came up with school house rock?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am in that age range, but I understand I’m the odd man out. I’ve always cared more about Walt’s legacy than anything else. It’s what I grew up with. I started with Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh and Fun and Fancy Free. After that, I wanted to see all of the black and white Mickey cartoons. From there, I was hooked.

I always feel like I’m talking to a brick wall with people my age. They’ll tell me that Walt was racist, or that he hated Jewish people fully knowing how big of a Disney fan I am and how much research I’ve done. Meanwhile, they’re the ones to make racist comments and jokes. Ironic isn’t it?

You didn’t need to say that...

It was obvious when you said you didn’t care about Star Wars

 

[Brer Oswald]

You didn’t need to say that...

It was obvious when you said you didn’t care about Star Wars

Honestly, I just never grew up with any of the films. Which is odd considering my dad saw them in theatres and really enjoyed them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Honestly, I just never grew up with any of the films. Which is odd considering my dad saw them in theatres and really enjoyed them.

A big problem with Star Wars...maybe the big problem...has been the hard “generational gap” on the power it’s held over Gen X versus everyone else.

The force has always been strong with “us”

(I like you, kid...by the way. That is “rare”)

 

[Robbiem]

A big problem with Star Wars...maybe the big problem...has been the hard “generational gap” on the power it’s held over Gen X versus everyone else.

The force has always been strong with “us”

(I like you, kid...by the way. That is “rare”)

I agree with this. My first memory of the movies was being taken to see the original star wars when I was three years old. I grew up on the original trilogy and enjoyed the prequels as a young adult. Now as a middle aged man I’ve been watching the animated movies on Disney plus. Growing up I never reali how important star wars in teaching me about morals and goodness and I dtill find new wisdom and lessons as well as being entertained by it.

 

[Robbiem]

Can’t we care about all aspects of the company equally? I’m a millennial (barely I’m on the older end) but the Disney renaissance was my childhood (I remember seeing TLM, BatB, Aladdin and Lion King in theatres) so of course I have a love for that era, but I love and watch all eras, other then the “dark” and “lost” eras I will not argue with anyone over which era was “best.”

That said, older fans need to realize that there are now as many good films the company has released without Walt as those with him.

Growing up, other then an odd show/parade there was never attractions on the movies of my childhood; I think that’s why I love Philharmagic so much, it was the first piece of “permanent” additions to the park that acknowledged the films of my childhood (I’m not counting Magic Carpets.)

It’s not that we don’t like the old films, it’s that it would be nice to see more representation in the US parks for some of the newer stuff. The golden/silver age is still over represented compared to renaissance/revival eras, although the company has done better and I wish they would do this with additions rather then replacements.

I agree. I think one of the saddest mistakesof Magic kingdom was to replicate so many California rides in Fantasyland. If each park had had its own set of dark Rides we could have celebrated all eras of animation. Its one reason why i really want to see the beauty and the beast ride in Tokyo Its a bona fide classic which was deserved a ride for nearly 30 years!

 

[DoleWhipDrea]

Older millennial here. I grew up at a really great time to learn about classic Disney films and shorts. VHS tapes were the new hot commodity and my parents were both tied to the film industry, so perhaps that had a hand in how I was raised, but I know several people that have had similar experiences, though they don’t post on forums like this.

I’d watch a lot of Disney Channel, and if a classic happened to air either my mother or I would record it at home if the title hadn’t been released. I watched Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, Robin Hood, The Prince and the Pauper, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin religiously. I was lucky enough to have parents that would get most Disney titles that were released for me to watch at home. I remember when Sleeping Beauty finally came out of the vault - when my mother handed me the tape as a gift, it was like she was handing me a prized heirloom.

But this is important to remember - those tapes weren’t cheap back then. Not every family could afford to keep every Disney title at home, and if you didn’t grab it fast enough, the title would go back into the Disney Vault. (Yesterworld on YT did an excellent episode about this, if anyone is curious.)

To me they were all Disney. Sure, I could tell that some of the older titles weren’t brand new, but that didn’t matter to me. They were all “Disney.” Sometimes I would tape a few hours of what was playing on the Disney Channel to enjoy the older shorts, which was how I discovered Fun and Fancy Free. Sometimes I would secretly stay up late when the channel would switch over to the “vault” specials and watch episodes of The Wonderful World of Disney. I lived to catch any of the specials that focused on Disneyland. I’ve had dreams of swimming in a black and white Jungle Cruise, and I was lucky enough to record the special for Pirates of the Caribbean, one of the most influential pieces of media of my life.

With all of that said, how many decades did it take for The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast to get their own rides? I personally never wanted those properties to replace any of the attractions that already existed, but for properties that were apparently so special, Disney couldn’t be bothered to put real money behind them in the parks, which suffered a long period of stagnation by not getting anything new (of substance.)

I’ve seen a lot of gatekeeping in this community, primarily on message boards, which has driven away a lot of younger fans. It’s not that they don’t care about the older things (and more know about them than you may think), but they’re often attacked for celebrating new things and ideas and are driven away from having meaningful conversations to celebrate the old and the new.

Now we have Disney+ and more of the classic media is available to stream, with their film refreshed and vibrant. My niece is now seeing shorts and films that haven’t really had a chance to shine in decades. There’s a new generation that will have a completely different outlook - and exposure - on Disney, and some of these classic treasures are going to be just as celebrated as the new stuff.

 

[DoleWhipDrea]

I agree. I think one of the saddest mistakesof Magic kingdom was to replicate so many California rides in Fantasyland. If each park had had its own set of dark Rides we could have celebrated all eras of animation. Its one reason why i really want to see the beauty and the beast ride in Tokyo Its a bona fide classic which was deserved a ride for nearly 30 years!

They were trying to save money on building MK, which is why things ended up the way they did. It’s a real shame that they didn’t build at least one new dark ride.

Your comment gave me a little “spark of inspiration!” Imagine if Hollywood Studios had different parts of the Animation area telling a story of the different eras the studio has gone through in animation with a few attractions taking you through them? That would be really fantastic...

 

[Nubs70]

They'll bounce back, they always do. The company's been through far worse in its history and has always bounced back strong. It'll take some time, and we're in for some serious cuts to service and cancellations but in the long term it balances out.

There's a good reason Disney is known as one of the best stocks in the world to invest in, and one many of us keep for a long, long time.

This is the worst point the company has been in history.

 

[Jon81uk]

For the record...I’m a millennial and my favorite Disney movies are: Jungle Book, Sword in the Stone, Robin Hood. They were all on VHS by the time I was born. You have to take onto account that the movies these kids love are the movies their parents expose them too.

Pretty certain we had a VHS of Robin Hood taped from the TV, was one of my favourite Disney movies for years.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree with this. My first memory of the movies was being taken to see the original star wars when I was three years old. I grew up on the original trilogy and enjoyed the prequels as a young adult. Now as a middle aged man I’ve been watching the animated movies on Disney plus. Growing up I never reali how important star wars in teaching me about morals and goodness and I dtill find new wisdom and lessons as well as being entertained by it.

Can’t agree more.

The sad reality is that those original movies - including Jedi before people get revisionist and stoopid - were actually much more than the sum of their parts to the audience. Whether they realize it or not.

The problem for Lucas and then disney is that the more they try to “adapt” the pathos...the farther they drift from it. And the money that created that is tied to Gen X. And we’re not dead yet or close.

The Disney “trilogy” has a large box office number...but yet still couldn’t have gone worse. In a weird way. Only Star Wars can do that.

This is the worst point the company has been in history.

I can’t stress how right this point is.

Disney has NEVER had a situation this bad that will impact their business like this. This tears at the very fabric of the consumer model Disney has lead the world in developing for 100 years.

The only...and I mean only...comparison is when they had to basically shutdown during ww2...that’s the only one close and it isn’t that close.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They were trying to save money on building MK, which is why things ended up the way they did. It’s a real shame that they didn’t build at least one new dark ride.

Your comment gave me a little “spark of inspiration!” Imagine if Hollywood Studios had different parts of the Animation area telling a story of the different eras the studio has gone through in animation with a few attractions taking you through them? That would be really fantastic...

They missed a huge chance in their “overhaul” of studios...including missed opportunities you described here.

I said that on DiS and then here and was largely dismissed. Walk through that now landlocked, smallish park and realize it has no room to grow...by choice...when Disney had all the money in the world. Bad leadership. Lack of foresight.

 

[Lilofan]

They missed a huge chance in their “overhaul” of studios...including missed opportunities you described here.

I said that on DiS and then here and was largely dismissed. Walk through that now landlocked, smallish park and realize it has no room to grow...by choice...when Disney had all the money in the world. Bad leadership. Lack of foresight.

The DHS Fantasmic area onstage and backstage is completely underutilized. Only having shows at night and if there is weather related issurs, the shows are cancelled. During the day absolutely nothing goes on there. Make Fantasmic disappear and develop the acres of land for something for day and night use.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The DHS Fantasmic area onstage and backstage is completely underutilized. Only having shows at night and if there is weather related issurs, the shows are cancelled. During the day absolutely nothing goes on there. Make Fantasmic disappear and develop the acres of land for something for day and night use.

Thats their only option. Though I agree. By redesigning the entryway, putting in the ski lift to the $400 pop century rooms, and underbuilding toy story land combine with overbuilding set pieces in SWL...they made their intentions known that its pretty much “it”

 

[DoleWhipDrea]

They missed a huge chance in their “overhaul” of studios...including missed opportunities you described here.

I said that on DiS and then here and was largely dismissed. Walk through that now landlocked, smallish park now and realize it has no room to grow...by choice...when Disney had all the money in the world. Bad leadership. Lack of foresight.

As someone who grew up as a Disneylander who didn’t experience WDW until the last few years, the layout of the 4 parks with the “blessing of size” yet lack of attractions, vs Disneyland’s tight space yet maximization of attractions, makes me shake my head. You would think that DLR and WDW have completely different designers! So much underutilized space and potential all over WDW’s property. DHS is the worst offender, though I partially blame that on the fact that it was purposefully built as a half-day park from the beginning (crummy guest experience model to get people to extend their vacations.)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As someone who grew up as a Disneylander who didn’t experience WDW until the last few years, the layout of the 4 parks with the “blessing of size” yet lack of attractions, vs Disneyland’s tight space yet maximization of attractions, makes me shake my head. You would think that DLR and WDW have completely different designers! So much underutilized space and potential all over WDW’s property. DHS is the worst offender, though I partially blame that on the fact that it was purposefully built as a half-day park from the beginning (crummy guest experience model to get people to extend their vacations.)

Well mgm was done “on the cheap” as a “feeder park”. That’s the history of it. TWDC was in a very different place when they pushed for its construction in 1986...is was a gamble to push for complex expansion at that time. Eisner was right as it turns out.

But since? That feeder model stopped making sense 20 years ago...

All the issues - both for Disney and the customers - would have been mitigated had they not done another half committed expansion project in 2015.

They can’t grow overall attendance without more park space longterm...and the parks will be heavily skewed toward magic kingdom forever at this rate. The only park that tried to fix this problem under Iger has been DAK. The other two haven’t been very well designed in this building “boom”

 

[Jon81uk]

They missed a huge chance in their “overhaul” of studios...including missed opportunities you described here.

I said that on DiS and then here and was largely dismissed. Walk through that now landlocked, smallish park and realize it has no room to grow...by choice...when Disney had all the money in the world. Bad leadership. Lack of foresight.

Thats their only option. Though I agree. By redesigning the entryway, putting in the ski lift to the $400 pop century rooms, and underbuilding toy story land combine with overbuilding set pieces in SWL...they made their intentions known that its pretty much “it”

I haven't vsited yet but from what I've seen there is a lot of strange design choices for Star Wars land on both coasts as well as DHS sepcifically. There are huge walkways, but only one smallish cantina that is overbooked, so plenty of room outside, but not enough capacity for the actual experiences. Should have built 2/3 cantina rooms.
When the initial hype dies off, what's the use of the large outdoor walkways? Also they should have built differently for both coasts to give DHS the option of expanding easier, right now Muppets would probably need to go to expand at all.
Toy Story land should have factored in an expansion pad and the new restaurant being built landlocks it even further as that would need to go/change to expand out that direction.

 

[WEDway Inc & Company LLC]

what's the use of the large outdoor walkways?

Immersion

 

[Lilofan]

If the trend is "working from home", can some Disney staff still do this and the offices they do occupy be rented out to third party. Seems like rental $$ to WDW is easy money.