News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

Clyde Birdbrain

Unknown Member
They cannot leave Liberty Square and Frontierland as-is now. That may already be in the works, but those areas have to be fundamentally redesigned once this change happens since they are eliminating the waterfront.

We don't know what the right side of Frontierland will look like. The concept art is too blurry. There may be waterfalls coming off the new mountain, new building facades, mines and mining equipment, etc. We could end up with more Frontierland theming than the current waterfront.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
You have zero knowledge of what any other person will think of this new area. Zero. You are basing that off your own feelings. You speak for no one but yourself.

No I'm not. It's a well-established principle of design with loads of evidence.

It has nothing to do with individual thoughts about what's being done.

That doesn't mean Disney can't redesign other existing areas to make it work (and it seems like that may be the plan with dumping Liberty Square), though.
 
Last edited:

lentesta

Premium Member
... is there a sense Moana was kept in the back pocket since that’s an easier sell even during more tight budgetary times?

100%.

A few podcasts ago I was wondering about where Moana was in all of this, and whether we'd see anything at all. And someone in the company emailed me to say "You know Moana has never left the top 5 of Disney+ streaming titles, right?"

Coming out of this D23 we've seen most, but probably not all, of the first 5 years of a 10-year plan.
 

The Chatbox Ghost

Well-Known Member
We don't know what the right side of Frontierland will look like. The concept art is too blurry. There may be waterfalls coming off the new mountain, new building facades, mines and mining equipment, etc. We could end up with more Frontierland theming than the current waterfront.
This is what I'm hoping for. I know there's no changing the plans, but at the very least, I hope Disney sees the concerns about the waterfront/theming and makes sure to not only keep some water (at the very least so the walkway on the water doesn't feel so cramped) but also make sure to have plenty of waterfalls and new themed areas.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
We don't know what the right side of Frontierland will look like. The concept art is too blurry. There may be waterfalls coming off the new mountain, new building facades, mines and mining equipment, etc. We could end up with more Frontierland theming than the current waterfront.

It's definitely possible they could do something to make Frontierland work better -- I don't see how they can make it congruous with Liberty Square, though. But it sounds like they're planning to dump Liberty Square anyways, in which case they could potentially design a new area that doesn't have the same issues.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Do you mean now,

Now:

1723563303363.png






Can you point to water here?
 
I'm fine with this, makes more sense than trying to expand past the train-tracks at this time. Fills in what was essentially dead space in the park, and I think the mountains/waterfalls/trees will be just as nice to walk by as the river. Regardless of how TBA turned out ride-wise, its exterior is pretty spectacular.
 

Quietmouse

Active Member
What would be a cool concept is if Disney started implementing boutique resorts within the confines of the lands.

For instance, if they were to somehow include a faux mountain resort with a bunch of attached wooden log cabins where guests can stay at it might help restore some of that kinetic energy that was lost
 

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
Disney used to be the best at giving people what they didn’t know they wanted (feature-length animated films, multi-plane animation, a theme park, attractions like Tower of Terror etc.). Now all they do is give the masses what they think they want.

Doing the above is hard. Doing the above consistently is even harder, but it’s what made Disney, Disney. But I guess the risk of continuing that strategy is just too risky for the shareholders.
This is honestly a key point right now: Disney has been in a very reactive stance for a long, long time now with regards to the parks, rather than a proactive one.

Upfront, let's acknowledge that this isn't the first time that's been the case! The late 80s saw the announcement of Universal Orlando, plus Eisner noticing thing like the success of the Church St. clubs in the city proper, which led to the pushes for MGM Studios and Pleasure Island. It's part of business, sometimes you lead and sometimes you react to shifts in the marketplace.

But really, since Potter at Universal it's been a huge game of trying to do what "the other guys" are doing, and the rise of streaming services and the "content for content's sake" model has only contributed further to this need to force as many properties wherever they can possibly go, without much thought to whether it's something that's really upping the theme park industry overall. This has been the reality since the "IP mandate" went in place, and it's only becoming less thoughtful about placement, theme, and the other things that once made Disney theme parks feel transcendent.

Joe Rohde, I believe, once made an Instagram post where he talked about what separates truly great themed entertainment from something that's just "fun" - "fun" is a wonderful thing, but it's also something you can have anywhere; a simple plastic toy can be fun, after all, and you can get a yo-yo or something for a few bucks. But if you want me to spend multiple thousands of dollars on a "themed experience", you need to offer more than that - if I can just have "fun" at home, then I need a deeper reason why I'd be willing to part with my hard-earned money to travel to muggy Florida and spend time in the environment you've created.

That impetus to spend the money and go to the theme parks is partly generated by the rides, yes, but the rides are more often the direct source of fun; what sets a great theme park apart is, though, is the attention to detail and the small, sometimes barely perceptible choices (sight lines, kinetics, color palettes, music, tactile choices for surfaces, layouts, costuming, construction materials, something as simple as period appropriate lighting fixtures, etc.) that transport you to a different place and a different frame of mind. Once you've got that, you can sell people on just about anything your park will offer, like original ride concepts or things that don't involve "just slap that character's face on it so it'll sell." I kind of point to something like the Guardians coaster for this: lots of fun, for sure, but not something particularly transportive.

I mean, I live in New Jersey: if all I want is just some fun involving theme park rides, I can drive a pretty short distance down to Six Flags. And that CAN be fun! Many people are coaster enthusiasts, after all! But Six Flags also isn't demanding nearly as much of my money as Disney does, which is why I hold Disney to a much, much higher standard than I do a regional coaster park.

Like, I don't know; like I said before, I'm a 39 year old man, telling me "Get excited, it's Cars!" or "Get hyped, it's Zootopia!" means basically nothing to me - I like some of these films just fine, but they're films, I can watch them any time I want if I so choose without having to spend thousands to see animatronics of the characters, or even just drawings of them on some rides. If this announcement had been "we're going to shift what 'Frontierland' means, and change it to include the natural beauty of more of the American West, recreating a slice of the Rockies here in Florida", that'd be something evocative and transporting to me...and if a given IP suited that area, well, ok, I guess that could work, but that's clearly not what's being done, here. It's more "one day we'll crack the code Universal did with Potter, just watch us, investors!", and while there are times it can be fun, increasingly it's just boring.
 
Last edited:

orky8

Well-Known Member
The crux of the issue: people weren't utilizing this desperately needed space. Either it's not as needed as people want to think, or the burdens to utilizing it were too high. Either way the result is the same.
No, the crux of the issue is current management doesn't understand that underutilized space is critically important to have. You need E ticket thrills AND relaxing hideaways for a theme park, especially the most visited one in the world, to prevent it from feeling oppressive. Even if most people never set foot on the Liberty Belle when visiting MK, almost everyone at the park, even if not consciously, appreciated the ambience it provided.
 

Wall-e

Well-Known Member
Well, why shouldn't a cut rate barely themed tower look like the concept art?
Yeah, they can deliver on that.
Think they'd ever build a Yacht/Beachclub, Boardwalk, Animal Kingdom Lodge again?
Depends again on the conceptualization of a vision. Based on the information we have someone has a vision for improving this area for decades to come. A lot of pieces need to fall into place to make this vision a reality but until I see otherwise I am going to look forward to this area being plussed in the way the concept art has dreamt up.
 

Purduevian

Well-Known Member
I guess I am not seeing how this can be anything significant attraction-wise. This doesn't look like an E-ticket at all. There just isn't space. This area is not all that I much larger than Space Mountain. Jungle Cruise, Kali, even the Hub are all notably larger. And, they need to add walkways, significant rockwork, queue and a second attraction all in that space.

Obviously there are creative ways, but I'm thinking 7dMT is about the size and scale we are talking here. I guess that RSR/CarsLand does not make to me.
1723562765822.png

quick google mapping of other thrilling rides:
Big Thunder ~86,000 Sq ft
Mine Train ~85,000 sq ft
Space ~90,000 sq ft
TT ~136,000 sqft
Guardians ~182,000 sqft
Rise ~97,000 sqft
SDD:~130,000 sqft
Dinosaur ~81,000 sqft
Everest: ~145,000 sqft
 

Quietmouse

Active Member
No, the crux of the issue is current management doesn't understand that underutilized space is critically important to have. You need E ticket thrills AND relaxing hideaways for a theme park, especially the most visited one in the world, to prevent it from feeling oppressive. Even if most people never set foot on the Liberty Belle when visiting MK, almost everyone at the park, even if not consciously, appreciated the ambience it provided.

You can easily create the same level of ambiance with this cars land expansion.

Basing off the concept art, it appears the crux is to be western nature, with mountains and trails. Aside from the main attractions - just by supplementing some nature themed walk trails and hide away spots for younger kids to play and adults to relax will by default create more utilization than Tom Sawyer island ever did.
 

DCLcruiser

Well-Known Member
No, don't do this. Splitting the thread up will lead to the same sort of echo chamber that Tiana was allowed to have when it was split into two threads. And discourage the extremely well warranted criticism.
Yea, but it's not about the ride. People are posting landfill schematics interspersed with arguments over TSI/ROA.

There was literally a post showing that the concept art uses FL from Paris and it was just passed over by a ton of pages. No one can see the actual content because of all the arguing.
 
Last edited:

peter11435

Well-Known Member
No, the crux of the issue is current management doesn't understand that underutilized space is critically important to have. You need E ticket thrills AND relaxing hideaways for a theme park, especially the most visited one in the world, to prevent it from feeling oppressive. Even if most people never set foot on the Liberty Belle when visiting MK, almost everyone at the park, even if not consciously, appreciated the ambience it provided.
Theme parks do need attractions that are smaller scale, accessible to everyone, and nearly immediately available. However they should not have attractions that regularly operate at less than 20% of their designed capacity.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Now:

View attachment 809049





Can you point to water here?

It's directly in front of you, and obviously there when you're standing there. Now go post all the other Google Maps photos from Liberty Square where the water is prominent even in their mediocre photos.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And that’s exactly my point, your fear is valid, but the truth is we don’t know how it will actually enhance or diminish the area until the final product is done.

We have associated this area with RoA because it has existed this way for a long time, so we can’t phantom in our minds it being different. And that’s valid.

Nonetheless, the truth is that Frontierland and Liberty Square will be different by the time this project, whether that absolutely ruins that area of the park, improves it or ends up something in the middle remains to be seen. It’s okay to be afraid and have reservations, but let’s not jump on the doom and gloom buggie. The negativity can be exhausting.
It’s not people just not knowing. Good theme parks aren’t just a collection of decorated buildings. The space is designed and shaped to evoke a specific experience. Everything is oriented around the river and its vista. The attraction is not being designed to take on that same central, unifying role. It has some odd points that reach out as attempts at being weenies but it’s otherwise designs to be hidden away.

I thought they had filed bankruptcy and went under after their dark ride coaster design was passed over for Mario Kart and Mad Ramp Peak at Genting Skyworlds sits rotting.

Well, if they're back, that's great as I always liked their stuff
Bankruptcy doesn’t always mean closing the business. They were close, but found a buyer.

Hypothetically, I can imagine that ... stockholders ... are asking ... publicly and privately ... why the parks attractions pipeline was allowed to go empty. Hypothetically. Because tf do I know?

So if you're an exec, that starts a ticking clock that you need to address.
And the longer, more expensive project addresses this more effectively how? The desire to make a radical change to the park isn’t new. It wasn’t just driven by circumstance or pure financials.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
I’m willing to bet that 99% of the people on these boards upset would be just fine with this design. I know I would be.

Yep. That's pretty much what I expected when the rumors of "we are losing the RoA/boat/TSI" started and I had already accepted it. I mean, it's not what I would do but I think that would be a justifiable setup to use. But removing the riverfront entirely is just a step too far in terms of the visual aspect of that area.

I kind of feel like if you are going to remove the water, you have to put up a bunch of buildings on what is currently the river edge to make it feel more like a town. Maybe something like a shooting gallery in Frontierland would be a nice fit.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom