Many times on this forum, I have read a quote, supposedly from Walt himself, ordering that his parks never close the Carousel of Progress. Can anyone actually come up with a source for that? Additionally, everyone protesting its supposed closing (is there a reputable source regarding THAT either?) is going against the whole message of the show. "Progress" is impossible if Disney World never creates anything new. Let it go, good people; let it go.
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Carousel of "Progress"
- Thread starter mmartin2x
- Start date
General Grizz
New Member
Disney wants to make Walt's classic into a gift shop? Fine!mmartin2x said:
Disney wants to throw on Pixar characters and make it irrelevant? Fine!
Disney wants to make it a meet and greet? Fine!
(We'll just give due response.)
You see, Martin, our protest has nothing to do with stoping Progress. It has to do with preserving progress before we get downgraded.
Would keeping the Diamond Horseshoe Revue "progressful?" Not necessarily, but it sure as heck beats a Goofy Show AND a Meet and Greet. But because both of these are changes, we should "embrace them like Walt would have it?"
But none of these cases are of PROGRESS. Rather, these are all changes without fundamental increase in value and quality. Disney has considered changing the CoP/skyway area into a giant "emporium" with a "small attraction" - is this progress to you? Would Walt approve? (Especially when there is real estate over at Fantasyland?)
I am looking for the exact quotation from Walt Disney, but it has been verified from the Walt Disney Archives. Even if Walt didn't have this wish, The Sherman Brothers, Disney Legends, and even Leonard Maltin have shown how Carousel of Progress is THE "Walt Disney attraction." It holds an essential vision - a vision that has been chinked away at from both Epcot and the Magic Kingdom - and unless a replacement that holds this vision replaces that attraction, there should be no change.
Carousel of Progress came out during the pinnacle of Walt's career, and it's the closest, most direct thing we have. This isn't to say Carousel of Progress shouldn't change technologically or show-wise; I most certainly think it should. Soon!
But think about it. Hundreds of US Disney theme park attractions, and just ONE has his name on it and expresses his vision.
That's progress for you.
Mickeyrulz
New Member
Grizz--
Amen to that.
Amen to that.
Mickeyrulz
New Member
Plus Disneyland's Carousel of Progress has LONG been gone, so this is the last one. Disneyland's, I know, was moved to WDW in 1973 or 74.
darthdarrel
New Member
General Grizz said:
COP was open last week and I went on it as I always do, I do think they need to update it, specially the present time is so 90`s LOL!
Paul(pirateslife4me) sang the whole song at the top of his lungs it was so funny. One question though Grizz, You state that there is only one attraction left with Walts name on it, but I beg to differ. It`s a small world was Walts baby aswell.
:wave:
Trainee031589
New Member
General Grizz said:
What he said . LoL Nicely put Grizz
Coasterbp
Member
As much as I would like to agree with you, I can't. I hate tearing down old attractions to make new ones, but it's been done before, and it's gonna "get done" again. It happened when Walt was alive, and it's been happening since he passed. Does that make it right? Maybe, maybe not. Depends I guess on what is getting torn down and what's replacing it. But one fact still remains...it's going to keep happening, and there is no denying it. Enjoy the attractions while they are there, and if they were to dissapear, move on. Just like everything is this world, it's not going to be here forever.
Unfortunately, the business side of a company like Disney will ALWAYS win out, because it has to. It's called self preservation. Do the numbers that CoP pull in weigh in enough to have the labor and maintenance needed to run it? You and I don't know that, but unfortunately, that's a major factor to an attractions life span.
There will ALWAYS be Disney "Classic" attractions to enjoy. Pirates, small world, Haunted Mansion...etc...does CoP rank up there? I'm not sure. That's an opinion of course.
And I don't think that just because it's one of the last attractions with Walts' name attached should give it any armor at all. We have 47 square miles of land, parks and attractions all bearing Walts' name. "WALT DISNEY WORLD". We all know who he is, and that it was started by his incredible dream.
I'm not trying to start an arguement. Just throwing out my opinion.
Unfortunately, the business side of a company like Disney will ALWAYS win out, because it has to. It's called self preservation. Do the numbers that CoP pull in weigh in enough to have the labor and maintenance needed to run it? You and I don't know that, but unfortunately, that's a major factor to an attractions life span.
There will ALWAYS be Disney "Classic" attractions to enjoy. Pirates, small world, Haunted Mansion...etc...does CoP rank up there? I'm not sure. That's an opinion of course.
And I don't think that just because it's one of the last attractions with Walts' name attached should give it any armor at all. We have 47 square miles of land, parks and attractions all bearing Walts' name. "WALT DISNEY WORLD". We all know who he is, and that it was started by his incredible dream.
I'm not trying to start an arguement. Just throwing out my opinion.
trdisneyfan
New Member
I just think they need to update the CoP so there isn't such a large gap between the last 2 scenes. Just space out the eras a little better. And make sure none of the props in the last scene is bolted down too tight, so they can update it at will.
General Grizz
New Member
Coasterbp said:
This is where I beg to differ. Unless guests go to One Man's Dream (or see the Carousel of Progress preshow), I don't think the majority of Walt Disney World truly understand Walt Disney and his vision. Especially the children.
Carousel of Progress is a classic for several reasons...
- It's the longest running, most visited stage show in the history of American theatre.
- The Sherman Brothers's "Great, Big, Beautiful Tomorrow" is one of the most recognizable and most Disneyesque songs in Disney history.
- It was the only attraction Walt Disney told his Imagineers to keep and one of the only attractions in the entire Walt Disney World that reflects his vision. It even has his name on it!
- It is a nostalgic - yet can be a modern - classic, a product of the pinnacle era of "It's a Small World," "Enchanted Tiki Room," and "Pirates of the Caribbean"
- It has a gigantic fanbase, a well-loved family attraction by senior fans and children who see it for the first time
ASHWALES
New Member
OK amen to the save th COP speech i understand the concept of progress however removing of the COP is not progress, you people who say you have to acCept changes so replace it nonono! would you feel then same if they replaced cinders castle? i dont think you would but rides like "carosel of progress" and "its a small world" are as an important part of the park as cinders castle. they are the part of the park that make you relise the imagination and thoughts that walt created. For example the monorail too would you like them to take that away as well, no! we have all excepted the new MKvi trains in the past, that is progress but replacing the monorail completly would that be the same thing? No!. So by all means update COP so we can enjoy it for decades to come, and so your kids and there kids can see it. but for heavens sake IT CANNOT BE CLOSED.
Lauriebar
Well-Known Member
Coasterbp said:
Are you sure? Ten years ago who would have thought so many Classic attractions would be gone or on the verge of closing? This is what bothers me. If CoP closes...what's next? Don't count on management not closing any attraction due to it being perceived as Classic.
Nora
New Member
Has anyone ever considered contacting the National Register of Historic Places about the CoP? I know there have been attempts to protect the TWA terminal at JFK airport, which is also a mid-twentieth century building. A building can be nominated by anyone, not just the owner, but the owners do have to agree before the designation can go through. My thought is that Disney might be amenable to this designation, though, because there are financial benefits that come with being designated a historic place (grants for repairs, tax breaks, etc.) Wouldn't this make everyone happy - the CoP stays open for everyone who enjoys it, Disney can't put Buzz Lightyear in the final scene, and they get money to help maintain the attraction. Just a thought.
General Grizz said:
I implied nothing of the sort. I don't see how having Walt's name associated with the attraction indicates "progress," either. My post was exclusively about the COP, which *may or may not* be closing soon, and also about the supposed "never close my ride" quote. I guess your enthusiasm is admirable, but changing the subject to reflect your personal agenda isn't. Your idea of "progress" just may not be consistent with that of the Walt Disney Company. Believe it or not, they have more on their hands than running an amusement park: modifying the COP to be an emporium would profitable for them. While I agree that artistic integrity in WDW's attractions, as well as preserving that integrity, is important, there is also a business to be ran.
goofyfan13
Well-Known Member
mmartin2x said:
Grizz never changed the subject, he just used examples to prove his point. Thats a big differance from changing the subject. Yes Grizz is passionate about the show, just as I am and probobly hundreds of thousands of other people. Thats why the show still packs in the crowds it does. To get rid of CoP would be a huge blow to not only Walt himself, but would be a huge blow to the company and the customer. And to bring up your supposed quote comment, Grizz clearly stated a very viable source for the quote. Go back and read it again.
General Grizz
New Member
mmartin2x said:
You stated that Carousel of Progress being open forever could be a "lack of progress." To paint my view, I used other examples to show how change does not mean progress. In other words, how could Disney's track record reflect the change that happens at Carousel of Progress.
Sorry for "changing the subject," but this is a discussion forum, and everything connects at Walt Disney World.
A business IS to be ran, Martin, but you musn't forget the Walt Disney in Walt Disney World. Considering replacing the CoP with a gift shop is plain inconsiderate and breaks the Keys to the Kingdom.
(P.S. Thank you for your support, goofyfan.)
goofyfan13
Well-Known Member
General Grizz said:
Anytime Grizz, I've got your back. Oh yea, I've been wondering about how to join the D-Army.
Captain Hank
Well-Known Member
Actually, I like the thought of having COP placed on the National Registry of Historic Places. Not only would it provide a small amount of money in grants, I can definately see being on the registry being something to brag about. My question is, since the show has changed rather significantly throughout the years would it have to revert to its original form to be on the registry. And once on the registry, could it be updated at all? By the way, go General!