Carousel of "Progress"

[Woody13]

Why CoP Will Be Closing Soon!

Actually, I like the thought of having COP placed on the National Registry of Historic Places. Not only would it provide a small amount of money in grants, I can definately see being on the registry being something to brag about. My question is, since the show has changed rather significantly throughout the years would it have to revert to its original form to be on the registry. And once on the registry, could it be updated at all? By the way, go General!

Your comments about CoP and the National Register of Historic Places are significant! Generally, properties eligible for listing in the National Register are at least 50 years old. Properties less than 50 years of age must be exceptionally important to be considered eligible for listing. You can be sure that the Walt Disney Company is aware that CoP will become eligible for inclusion into the National Register during 2014. Wouldn't it be ironic if Cop in "Tomorrowland" ended up being officially listed as an historic landmark? Also realize that once a building is officially designated on the National Register, then that building is "protected" from change or modifications. For this reason alone, Disney would never allow CoP to be nominated to the National Register. You can be sure that they will either close it and dismantle it or donate it to the Smithsonian before the year 2014. They sure don't want a National Register site within their parks!

 

[Captain Hank]

Ok, I wasn't entirely sure of the process or implications. I did miss the irony of Tomorrowland having an historic landmark. Wait a second...won't Sleeping Beauty's Castle in DL be 50 years old next year? Oh well, topic for another thread.

 

[mmartin2x]

Disney's track record is actually not that bad: whether you actually enjoy, for example, the "Goofy Show" doesn't reflect the opinions of millions of non-Disney-fanatics (especially those with children). As far as for providing quality entertainment, they are arguably not doing the right thing (I haven't personally seen the show), but, again, the majority is the majority for a reason. Using the fact that this is a Disney-related forum as an excuse for your blatant self-promotion would be like if I chose right now to talk about Space Mountain's queue soundtrack. Just because something is related does not it is relevant.

 

[General Grizz]

Using the fact that this is a Disney-related forum as an excuse for your blatant self-promotion would be like if I chose right now to talk about Space Mountain's queue soundtrack. Just because something is related does not it is relevant.

Look, my reasoning for fearing closure of CoP was directly related to Disney's track record. Although you don't see the connection, and I don't mind that, I don't feel it is polite for you to have gone about this in the way you did.

So, speaking of Space Mountain, who misses "We've Come So Far?" :animwink:

 

[Woody13]

CoP was created for GE to SELL electricity!

<CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER> </CENTER><CENTER>Her own mother lived the latter years of her life in the horrible suspicion that electricity was dripping invisibly all over the house.<NOBR> - James Thurber</NOBR> </CENTER>

 

[longfamily]

I just wish they would update the final scene...maybe they could live on a space station or moon based bio dome

 

[hardcard]

I just wish they would update the final scene...maybe they could live on a space station or moon based bio dome

That ending used to exist.... At least it did before they destroyed Horizons.

 

[marni1971]

That ending used to exist.... At least it did before they destroyed Horizons.

SO well said!!

"Don`t you think he looks like his Dad? And his Grandad? And his Cousin..."

 

[PaisleyMF]

I think the most important thing about CoP is that's a real Walt Disney "show". Correct my if I'm wrong but. Isn't the Original at WDW? That what is that make it so special. That is why we and WD Co has to preserve CoP. Upgrade the AA and clean up to Disney standards but Keep it "Real", keep it Walt's Baby.

 

[pax_65]

What Is Progress?

I've commented on this before with regard to other attractions. I think there are people on the extreme on both sides of these types of issues. On one extreme are the people who want to change just to keep the parks fresh, new and exciting. On the other extreme are people who want to preserve the Disneyworld of their youth. These people are ok with building new parks or adding new attractions, just don't remove ANYTHING!

I think we need to find middle ground - progress while preserving the vision that makes WDW so special.

GOOD CHANGE: I've often said that given the choice between Mr. Toad and Pooh, I'd take Pooh. The ride itself is a technological improvement, it is true to the vision of Fantasyland, and it is a true family attraction.

BAD CHANGE: I'd be in favor of updating Carousel of Progress, but closing it for a meet & greet or something would be a horrible mistake. CoP perfectly demonstrates Walt's vision for Tomorrowland. If Disney wants to increase attendance, they should update the attraction and promote it more! As it is now, you don't know if it's closed or open on any given day and it is badly in need of a rehab.

OPEN FOR DEBATE: Horizons --> Mission Space and World of Motion --> Test Track. I love all 4 of these attractions. Given the choice I'd take the new attractions, although I concede the older attractions (especially Horizons) contributed more of a "vision". But the newer attractions provide more "thrills", which is also important for WDW (especially with Islands of Adventure right down the street).

But CoP is a no-brainer. If they close that, they are sending the message that Walt's vision of "progress" is no longer important to the future of the parks.

 

[StevenT]

Using the fact that this is a Disney-related forum as an excuse for your blatant self-promotion would be like if I chose right now to talk about Space Mountain's queue soundtrack.

Wether you get Grizz's points or not I doubt you actually beleive he is blatantly promoting himself and his views or "changing the subject to reflect your personal agenda." Even if you do beleive that I don't think that those are appropriate was of phrasing that statement, and they are quite rude.

That being said, let my try to explain Grizz's point a little clearer. Turning CoP into a gift shop or meet and greet or even just sitting empty would not be "Progress." why? although they may be expanding and changing, the new gift shop does not live up to, and is not as quality or entertaining as what was there previously. This according to Grizz (and according to me) is not progress.

Grizz was using examples elsewhere in the park where Disney has done this. Closing 20,000 leauges for a character meet and greet was not progress. However changing that same meet and greet into a new e-ticket could very well be progress.

Progress isn't so much a matter of change, but a matter of improvment.

The American Heritage Dictionary defines "Progress" as:
1. Movement, as toward a goal; advance.
2. Development or growth: students who show progress.
3. Steady improvement, as of a society or civilization

Just as the Diamond Horseshoe review becoming Goofy's Jamboree a meet and greet was NOT an improvement, the CoP becoming anything less than itself would not be an improvement and thus not be progress.

 

[bgraham34]

Yead dude, you got it.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

What Grizz means is that we are trying to save the Carousel of Progress so that the progress maintained in the Carousel of Progress will continue to progress so the progress of current Disney Managament does not destroy the progress set forth by the Carousel of Progress! :wave:

 

[rogerrabbitfan9]

Has anyone ever considered contacting the National Register of Historic Places about the CoP? I know there have been attempts to protect the TWA terminal at JFK airport, which is also a mid-twentieth century building. A building can be nominated by anyone, not just the owner, but the owners do have to agree before the designation can go through. My thought is that Disney might be amenable to this designation, though, because there are financial benefits that come with being designated a historic place (grants for repairs, tax breaks, etc.) Wouldn't this make everyone happy - the CoP stays open for everyone who enjoys it, Disney can't put Buzz Lightyear in the final scene, and they get money to help maintain the attraction. Just a thought.

Ooh! How do I do that .

 

[PaisleyMF]

Disney once said about Disneyland (and can be applied to WDW):

"It's something that will never be finished. Something that I can keep developing...and adding to."

"Disneyland will never be completed. It will continue to grow as long as there is imagination left in the world."

And I can't agree more

 

[prisoner]

Your comments about CoP and the National Register of Historic Places are significant!

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure the comments are as significant as you may think. And it may be important to understand why.

For starters, check out the National Park Service's page about
The National Register for Historic Places, in particular the links on the left side. They address many of the issues we're discussing here.

Generally, properties eligible for listing in the National Register are at least 50 years old. Properties less than 50 years of age must be exceptionally important to be considered eligible for listing.

What would we write in the application to explain why this is "exceptionally important" to a dispassionate evaluator? We would mention its presence at the Worlds Fair, and the great distinction of the creator, but is that "exceptional"? I honestly doubt it.

Also realize that once a building is officially designated on the National Register, then that building is "protected" from change or modifications.

There are two things to recognize here.

The first is that the Register offers no protection whatsoever. None. Zero. Zilch. Until the Federal Government pays for something (or issues a license or permit), they have no control over what you can do with your property on the list. The only thing a property owner must do is send changes to be reviewed by a board - and they do not have to listen to the advice of the board.

Some states and localities use the list as a reference for certain protections, and I don't know what Florida law is, but you can bet that the Reedy Creek Improvement District has no such law.

Second, it is important to realize just what the list does "protect". It protectes buildings (and other things, but buildings are relevant to what we're talking about). It won't protect the show. It won't protect the ride mechanisim. If it could protect anything, it would protect the building. As such, this building has even less historic relevance - the original building was destroyed when the Worlds Fair was dismantled, and its "new home" in California has been re-used several times since.

I think we should get off this idea of trying to "protect" it and focus on how to keep it a vital part of the WDW experience. Such efforts should focus on the mutual benefits for both the guest and the company.

 

[PaisleyMF]

I think we should get off this idea of trying to "protect" it and focus on how to keep it a vital part of the WDW experience. Such efforts should focus on the mutual benefits for both the guest and the company.

One idea that Disney can use and create a newer experience for this area, and a excuse to have a "Shop" there is take the Imagineer dream and build or retrofit an area to show the process of creating a ride, with the stand point of CoP, a walk thru. Even they can use one of the old AA to a "meet and greet people and take and sell pictures of. After people walk inside this experience, then they get to ride one of the "ultimate" shows, but before some little history and then the ride. Upgrade the last scene, take it to its original glory, is up to them. But that way people will have some of the "Disney Animation" taste but in a whole new experience. and a magical one. But this is my humble opinion. I Could be Wrong...

 

[se8472]

How would anyone feel if it wasn't turn into a gift shop...but into a e-ticket?

Something that would bring butts into it.

 

[Woody13]

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure the comments are as significant as you may think. And it may be important to understand why.

For starters, check out the National Park Service's page about
The National Register for Historic Places, in particular the links on the left side. They address many of the issues we're discussing here.

I have a lot of first hand experience with The National Register. Let me assure you that a private owner (such as Disney) would have to agree to such a designation. Disney will never allow such a thing to happen. Case closed.