Calling All Teachers (and Parents too!)

[englanddg]

But honestly it comes down to YOU are the parents not the school... If you wanted to pull her for a month consecutive or she has 22 sick days in the whole year who really cares. If you know they are doing well in school then its worth it because you know they wont have trouble keeping up their grades when the come back to school. Just my 2 sense on my kids issues with school. Let me be the parent and all you have to do is teach my child. I went to school and don't have to be taught again. Well maybe my spelling but that's why there is spell check lol...

I wish you were right, but nope. Doesn't work that way in Maryland.

It is state law that children ages 5 to 16 must attend either:

1) The local public school system
2) A nonpublic school that holds a Certificate from the State BoE
3) A church-exempt nonpublic school
4) An education ministry of a registered church organization

If you do not comply with this, the State can and will investigate, and it is considered a criminal act that the parents can be found responsible for (assisting / encouraging truancy), and even potentially go to jail, I believe...but there are certainly fines.

In addition, that investigation will spark involvement from the State Department of Family and Children's Services...something that you NEVER want to have to deal with. I would die if something like this led to the state taking custody of the kid, even for a short period while they "investigate". Even if you can point to the kid and say "look, she's happy, healthy and learning things", doesn't matter. That's not how those "investigations" work.

No trip, even if it's to go on an amazing and educational experience, is worth that.

While you can call your child in sick, absences more than a period (I think 2 days, but I can't remember) without a doctor's note will spark actions under the laws noted above. At 22 days they'd probably have the State Police waiting for us when we got off the plane from LA (I say that as a joke...but...in some ways it is not...)

In addition, if the child misses more than a certain number of days, approved or not approved (I think 10...but again, I can't recall) over the ENTIRE school year, then the State will force the child to repeat that grade.

Anyhow, no. I think I'm going to go through proper channels for this. If they say no, I'll try to appeal to the Superintendent (not that I think it would do much good if it gets that far)...but, as I noted, I'm not gonna play with fire.

 

[mickeysbrother]

I wish you were right, but nope. Doesn't work that way in Maryland.

It is state law that children ages 5 to 16 must attend either:

1) The local public school system
2) A nonpublic school that holds a Certificate from the State BoE
3) A church-exempt nonpublic school
4) An education ministry of a registered church organization

If you do not comply with this, the State can and will investigate, and it is considered a criminal act that the parents can be found responsible for (assisting / encouraging truancy), and even potentially go to jail, I believe...but there are certainly fines.

In addition, that investigation will spark involvement from the State Department of Family and Children's Services...something that you NEVER want to have to deal with. I would die if something like this led to the state taking custody of the kid, even for a short period while they "investigate". Even if you can point to the kid and say "look, she's happy, healthy and learning things", doesn't matter. That's not how those "investigations" work.

No trip, even if it's to go on an amazing and educational experience, is worth that.

While you can call your child in sick, absences more than a period (I think 2 days, but I can't remember) without a doctor's note will spark actions under the laws noted above. At 22 days they'd probably have the State Police waiting for us when we got off the plane from LA (I say that as a joke...but...in some ways it is not...)

In addition, if the child misses more than a certain number of days, approved or not approved (I think 10...but again, I can't recall) over the ENTIRE school year, then the State will force the child to repeat that grade.

Anyhow, no. I think I'm going to go through proper channels for this. If they say no, I'll try to appeal to the Superintendent (not that I think it would do much good if it gets that far)...but, as I noted, I'm not gonna play with fire.

Ummmm wow... That's hardcore. Now i don't know how the american school system works but what i get from the news some places its not that good to begin with. So missing 10 days of school or around that really isn't much to fail a child.

Oh thank god i live in Canada. I may freeze my bottom off but its worth it in come cases i guess. Even though the states is my second home. But i do understand why they must have those kinda rules. But it ruins it for a lot of the regular average folks. Judging by your posts you travel a lot and are well educated have good jobs and don't fall into the take my kid out of school to work kinda people...

The american justice system should bend on situational situations but we all know that wont happen.

 

[EOD K9]

Here is my wife's paraphrased reply.
She feels you should not be taking a kid out at all just to go on a vacation. One or two days in conjunction with a holiday is ok though.
Fourth grade is the most important grade. It gets you ready for a transition to middle school and the topics become more in depth and critical.
If she, as a teacher, would recommend anything, she would say do it at the beginning. The counties in MD are starting to teach the next grade up at the end of the year. That is also a very important time. The start of the year is when they review the previous year, so not as bad.
Do not use the cruise as the substitute for the classes as they will have no bearing on what your child is learning. In fourth grade they are getting ready for MSA, which will be reviewed while on the cruise. It also not up to the teacher to provide work, they are to teach them while in school.
Any questions just ask. My 2 cents. You have the whole summer. I realize when this itinerary is, but don't miss a month for a vacation.

 

[joanna71985]

Honestly? I don't think missing that much school is a good idea

 

[englanddg]

Here is my wife's paraphrased reply.
She feels you should not be taking a kid out at all just to go on a vacation. One or two days in conjunction with a holiday is ok though.
Fourth grade is the most important grade. It gets you ready for a transition to middle school and the topics become more in depth and critical.
If she, as a teacher, would recommend anything, she would say do it at the beginning. The counties in MD are starting to teach the next grade up at the end of the year. That is also a very important time. The start of the year is when they review the previous year, so not as bad.
Do not use the cruise as the substitute for the classes as they will have no bearing on what your child is learning. In fourth grade they are getting ready for MSA, which will be reviewed while on the cruise. It also not up to the teacher to provide work, they are to teach them while in school.
Any questions just ask. My 2 cents. You have the whole summer. I realize when this itinerary is, but don't miss a month for a vacation.

Please thank your wife for her opinion and advice. This is exactly why I started this thread!

The MSA does concern me...though she did breeze through her 3rd grade MSA...though, I believe they add the science section starting in grade 4. I'm not sure. In either case, test prep for that is an excellent observation.

Also, if the teacher is not on board, I'm not going to approach this in any way. It's no skin off my nose, as my schedule is flexible. The child's...is not.

As far as a response, I have been pondering it since your post.

My only justification is subjective. I was raised this way (lots of schools, lots of travel) and it never had a significant impact on me. Well, outside of bureaucratic rules regarding the transfer of high school credits between school systems (I took high school geometry, biology and german in the 8th grade They would bus a small group of us over to the high school down the street for the courses). This made graduating high school a challenge...(not grades, I got a 1450 on my SAT, for example). But, I digress.

The point is, the amount of travel during this period of my life had a significant impact on me, and still does as an adult. Actually seeing places, while at the time I may not have appreciated them fully, built a connection that was far stronger than attending a lecture or reading a textbook. It fueled a love for history, a firm grasp of geography, and an interest in other cultures and languages.

Experiences carry value. They are as educational as you wish to make them.

All that being said, there's a reason I haven't jumped and booked this thing already! And, the reasons (as listed by your wife) partly contributes to my hesitation.

At this point I still think I want to run it by her teacher and get her input. But, they've only known each other for a week or so now, so that's not really long enough for her to have a grasp on how well the kiddo picks up on things, and how much of an impact she feels (I have my own opinions) such an extended absence would have.

Once again, please thank your wife for her analysis. It's greatly appreciated.

 

[EOD K9]

@englanddg You're welcome. Also, while I understand your point about travel affecting you, can your child truly appreciate the experience? That's something only you would know. And while you say it's only educational as you make them, while true, doesn't necessarily translate into school grades. Good luck.

 

[englanddg]

@englanddg You're welcome. Also, while I understand your point about travel affecting you, can your child truly appreciate the experience? That's something only you would know. And while you say it's only educational as you make them, while true, doesn't necessarily translate into school grades. Good luck.

No, she won't fully. Neither did I when I was her age and going to London, Berlin (still split then), Rome....list goes on.

But, those memories and experiences impacted me, and directly made me the man I am today.

The travel now does not affect me much at all...I think you misunderstood my statement (easy to do, I didn't make it clear enough). I've lived in 3 countries and 32 states. I speak two languages fluently, and am capable in 4 more. I am well traveled and well experienced. I want the same for my child.

Why? Well, it offers what I've come to think of as the "chameleon" benefit. I am able to blend in, adapt and succeed pretty much anywhere. And, my life as an adult has proven that. I credit a lot of that to travels as a younger child which never let me get "comfortable". While I used to despise this, as I was jealous of those who grew up with childhood friends, etc...as I've gotten older I've learned to see it as an asset.

For example, the longest I've been unemployed in my life since I was 13 years old was one month, and that was when I made the transition to teaching so I could have a better schedule for our then 2 year old kid.

Part of why I take her on these trips is to expose her to new and different things, the same way my parents exposed me. It's not to "max and relax" or whatever, or to have "bragging rights" about the trip...there is an overarching goal.

Travel, in and of itself, is education, as long as you don't hole up in the hotel room and watch Spongebob all day (or, at my age, it was GI Joe and Transformers)...

Moving on, the grades are not that important to me, considering the low quality of results I see from applicants at work all the time, many of which who are barely functionally literate even with college level education, not to get into innumeracy...I don't have a very high opinion of the grading system or the evaluation of work.

I am quite aware that the bulk of my kids education, even with public assistance, is going to fall upon myself and her mother. Otherwise, I'm going to be left with an average child and average results (which, currently, are disturbing)...

While I don't have the highest respect for the public educational system. Not the individuals...the system...I want to be VERY clear about that. I firmly believe they attempt to provide the highest quality education possible, I'm just not sure given external challenges they are able to provide it.

But, again, I digress. This was merely a qualifying statement for my next point...

Those grades will have a direct impact on my child and her development as they qualify (or disqualify) her for other educational experiences such as AP courses, etc. So, not a record that should be messed with considering the Panama Canal isn't going anywhere anytime soon. <grin>

Your wife's response gave me a lot of meat to chew on. Once again, please let her know I'm grateful!

 

[Gabe1]

As a Board of Ed member our District really frowned upon it. I didn't care, every year in elementary school I pulled our kids from school. Some teachers were obnoxious and others wished us a great trip. I never asked, I just did it. Asking permission is asking for complications. I never gave them much notice, usually a couple of weeks. One year, on the first day of school my DS then 8 blew it and when it came time for him to say something about himself he announced he would be going to Disney World for 2 weeks in October. That teacher piled on work that the rest of the class didn't even get assigned and nailed him with more when he came back.

So my advice is don't ask, don't tell until you have at least find out if this teacher is friend or foe.

Also the teachers my kids had when they were pulled the last 10 days of school didn't care. They didn't assign any work. But during the school year I always made sure my kids did all their homework and did it well. I often left for Disney on a Sunday or Monday, pulled them the Friday before and we did 2-3 days of non stop homework before we left.

 

[stevehousse]

I would take @Gabe1 advice! Asking the school for permission will only complicate things. Let them know a few weeks ahead that she will be missing school and to see if you can have homework for what she will be missing.

All teachers have their lessons planned way in advance and should be more than willing to give you the work ahead of time.

I live in Illinois and you have to miss more than 65 days throughout the school year to be "held back" a grade so that 14 day comment is bunk no matter where you live!

As long as you are comfortable taking her out, do it. Yes, some teachers will frown, but its a great historical trip you are taking and would do any kid good to see what she is going to be able to see! It's a trip of a lifetime! Enjoy it!

Last comment, if she was doing poorly in school I would not let her go on vacation but as long as she gets good grades and does well in school it should be no problem for her!

Good luck!

 

[englanddg]

I would take @Gabe1 advice! Asking the school for permission will only complicate things. Let them know a few weeks ahead that she will be missing school and to see if you can have homework for what she will be missing.

All teachers have their lessons planned way in advance and should be more than willing to give you the work ahead of time.

I live in Illinois and you have to miss more than 65 days throughout the school year to be "held back" a grade so that 14 day comment is bunk no matter where you live!

As long as you are comfortable taking her out, do it. Yes, some teachers will frown, but its a great historical trip you are taking and would do any kid good to see what she is going to be able to see! It's a trip of a lifetime! Enjoy it!

Last comment, if she was doing poorly in school I would not let her go on vacation but as long as she gets good grades and does well in school it should be no problem for her!

Good luck!

I will certainly find out what the limit for MD is. I wouldn't want her to repeat a grade.

That being said, I'd rather have the support of her teachers and the principal.

I think what annoys me is the general idea that it is a "vacation"...yes, it is...but it's not. As an adult, I can't tell you what I was doing for one month during my 4th grade year, but I certainly can talk about Germany and Italy (which we did that year) at length.

I don't see it as such, as I didn't see our last trip as all about "fun" (we did the Maya tour, for example, as opposed to the "speedboat" tour)...

There is an overarching design to my intent, and were Europe not so expensive, I'd be there tomorrow.

 

[MOXOMUMD]

Here the children from first grade through senior year are only allowed to miss 10 days (even with an excuse) or the parents go to court for the truancy and the court can bring in children's services to investigate why there are so many absences. If they don't find the reasons for the absences valid (for whatever I assume that is ) the child will repeat the grade. Unfortunately our school system relies heavily on funding (even though we as parents do the pay to play or be in extracurricular activities out the wazoo, $300 to be in marching band, and that's one child) so the school system really pushes for perfect attendance and high testing results to keep the funding. Kindergarteners can miss up to 14 days.

 

[englanddg]

Here the children from first grade through senior year are only allowed to miss 10 days (even with an excuse) or the parents go to court for the truancy and the court can bring in children's services to investigate why there are so many absences. If they don't find the reasons for the absences valid (for whatever I assume that is ) the child will repeat the grade. Unfortunately our school system relies heavily on funding (even though we as parents do the pay to play or be in extracurricular activities out the wazoo, $300 to be in marching band, and that's one child) so the school system really pushes for perfect attendance and high testing results to keep the funding. Kindergarteners can miss up to 14 days.

Yes, a fire I really don't wish to play with...

 

[Phonedave]

Just to add more fuel to the fire - I will say you reap what you sow. Not you the OP, but you in general.

I see a lot of people complaining about how the districts have no right to do this, and how it is the parents kid to raise, and that they should be able to take their kid out if they want.

The reason for these strict rules is beacuse school districts have had the pants sued off of them time and time again. Everyone who pays school taxes questions them, and complains about teachers salaries. Well, to protect the district, and by extension the taxpayers, schools have become very inflexible - just in order to survive. in NJ a large portion of the teachers evaluation is now required to be based on standardized testing (state law). And by extension so is the districts share of state and federal aid. The disctrict does not care one iota if your kid has the most enriching experience on this cruise, if they are immersed in cultures, food, conversation, nautical engineering, ot anything else. The district wants them educated on what is on the standardized testing. If your child bombs the standardized test, and the school looses funding, and taxes have to go up because of lost money, the taxpayers do not want to hear 'well, we let so and so go in a cruise". Nope, instead people are going to call for heads to roll, and I can tell you the Superintendent does not want to loose his or her job - they worked way to hard to get it. In fact, many teachers have a difficult time covering the required curriculum when the child does not miss any class, let alone with they are out for 3 weeks.

sorry to say, that is how it is, especially on the East coast, and I don't foresee it getting any better. The US Education system is behind a lot of the rest of the world, and it is not going get any easier.


-dave

 

[TDF]

I honestly didn’t read this whole thread so forgive me if this is not a help or makes any sense.

I am currently in my second year of college with my major being elementary education. In my personal belief I think the only way a child truly learns is to experience things in the real world. I personally would not have a problem with you taking your child on a dream come true vacation which has significant opportunities to be a learning vacation. However as a teacher depending on the school and what needs to be taught, it could be hard. I know in New York, where I am from, teachers have to teach certain things at a certain amount of time and give homework, test, etc… based on what is taught. Plus you also have to think of the fact that if your child has to do make up class assignments/homework, how stressful will it be for them to do that.

I hope I helped! Good luck!
- Justin

 

[aw14]

I am a HS Vice Principal, and we are cruising on the dream 11/7. We advised the school, and as expected it is not an excused absence without a medical note. Just always be careful not to go too overboard with absences as there are requirements needed to advance to the next grade/class etc..

 

[popsicletrees]

I'm a teacher, and I would have to say that if your trip is flexible wait until school is out or close to it. Our state is very strict about compulsory education. I've written several notes for campus court for students who have missed too many days. Some of the notes I've written are for children who are my problem kids, others though are for well-behaved students who were just caught by the system. Not to mention our school will keep tabs on the students after that and is quick to put the parents back in campus court if attendance becomes even a slight issue the following year.

Being gone for so long and so close to testing would probably create quite a lot of stress for your child's teacher as well. Our state actually tracks a child's performance in school and creates predictions for how the child will do on the standardized tests. If the child falls below that prediction the teacher is penalized through the evaluation process. Again, I'm not sure if that is how MD operates, but a coworker of mine is worried because she has students that are predicted to get 99.9% correct on their Algebra I exam. If they don't the hammer will come down on her. Again - stress. Standardized testing, unfortunately, is a big deal to the states, school boards, principals, and teachers.

I agree that this world and travel will offer a much better education than what the state tells me that I have to teach. I'm actually a bit envious of your itinerary myself. My advice would be to check to see when the standardized testing will take place and check with the teacher to see what the plans are for the class once testing is over. Honestly, the teacher may have nothing planned after testing is over and that may be the perfect time to take your trip.

Good luck with your decision. I know it isn't an easy one.

 

[Bolna]

There is an overarching design to my intent, and were Europe not so expensive, I'd be there tomorrow.

We looked longingly at the Panama Canal cruise when we chose a cruise for our onboard booking this spring. And that's not a cheap cruise at all. Are you sure that Europe would be more expensive? Especially if you are travelling with a child there are many discounts to be had. For example in many European countries train tickets for children travelling with their parents are heavily reduced. And if you chose an itinerary outside of the extremely large cities (London, Paris, Rome) hotel costs become much more affordable. Out of the big capitals Berlin is the exception as hotels there are really not that expensive at all. And there is plenty to see in Europe that is fascinating, especially to a child besides the large capitals.

 

[englanddg]

We looked longingly at the Panama Canal cruise when we chose a cruise for our onboard booking this spring. And that's not a cheap cruise at all. Are you sure that Europe would be more expensive? Especially if you are travelling with a child there are many discounts to be had. For example in many European countries train tickets for children travelling with their parents are heavily reduced. And if you chose an itinerary outside of the extremely large cities (London, Paris, Rome) hotel costs become much more affordable. Out of the big capitals Berlin is the exception as hotels there are really not that expensive at all. And there is plenty to see in Europe that is fascinating, especially to a child besides the large capitals.

Without a doubt Europe is more expensive. The flights alone would cost around 3 grand.

The canal cruise is around 5 grand for a stateroom with veranda. Flights would come in around 1.5 k (ATL to DCA to MIA...then San Diego or SNA back to DUL or DCA then back to ATL)

 

[5thGenTexan]

Here's what I'm thinking right now...

Key West - We would do the Conch Republic Tour and Museum.

• Board your trolley or train transportation for this approximate 60-minute narrated tour through the streets of Key West. Travel back through time as your guide tells stories of characters and customs behind the paradise island of historic Key West.
• There will be a stop at the Key West Shipwreck Treasure Museumand the Key West Aquarium where you may explore these fascinating museums at your leisure on self-guided tours.

We decided on that excurision on our visit to Key West this past May. While it had its moments, I am not sure it was worth the price paid nor worth the time invested. It hit a few worthy sites, but montly just pointed out houses and types of architecture along the way. I think it would be more worthwhile at Key West to rent one of the electric cars or a scooter and visit the major spots that way. Otherwise, on the Conch Train, you will "see"alot but won't get to experience alot. The aquarium and shipwreck museum were good though, but you don't need the Conch Train to see those.

 

[Bolna]

Without a doubt Europe is more expensive. The flights alone would cost around 3 grand.

The canal cruise is around 5 grand for a stateroom with veranda. Flights would come in around 1.5 k (ATL to DCA to MIA...then San Diego or SNA back to DUL or DCA then back to ATL)

That gives you 3500 for the stay in Europe. Considering that the cruise is only 15 nights, that would give you a budget for Europe of $ 233 for transport, hotel and food per day. Yes, I would say that it can be done. Might be less pampering than the cruise, but I could certainly put a trip together through Germany for one adult and one child for that price.