Cab, Limo Drivers Stage Protest At OIA (MCO)

[lewisc]

The industry attorneys have seen the contracts. It's not a question of bias. Either the information is factually correct or it's not. I told you where I got my information. Where did you get your information about Mears being paid by the bus and by the passenger? I asked you if you just made it up. I guess the answer is yes.

Again both the industry lawyers who quoted the agreement and the initial Disney press release announcing DME said guests are required to have an advance reservation. Disney is now agreeing to follow that policy. You're missing the point that an advance reservation is required. Should it be required? Disney can certainly negotiate differently if they're willing to pay whatever fee is necessary to provide that service. Saying anyone with a resort reservation should be allowed to ride DME, even without an advance reservation doesn't mean that's the rule.

I have no idea how many people show up without making ground transportation arrangements in advance. Many travelers know they can just grab a cab at the airport. We sometimes make the mistake of thinking that everyone does the advance planning that we do.

I do agree. I'd be surprised if enforcing the rules has a dramatic impact on their business but I was surprised to find an Orlando resident paying to ride DME to the AKL. There are reports on other internet board of people seeing DME greeters steering people to Mears to purchase vouchers.

First off... Although Greg has been a sponsor of these boards a short time, I find him to be fairly trustworth. But you have to remember where he's getting his information - the livery group association. I would not consider them very unbiased on this issue.



The airport is allowing Disney to have greeters inside the airport. If the livery group (or you) don't like that, then they should take it up with the airport. As far as solicitation is concerned, you still can't get the point that anyone that goes to the counter MUST have a resort reservation and they should be allowed to ride DME. Anything else should not be allowed and you are the only person that I've heard say that it happens. It's not been in any papers, news reports or press releases from the livery group that I've seen. If you seen it, please share the link.

Finally, we're talking about a miniscule amount of people that show up at the airport WITH a resort reservation AND WITHOUT pre-arranged reservations. It's ludicrous to get uptight about those few guests. If those are the few that cause some businesses to go out of business, then they were in BAD shape already.

 

[wannab@dis]

The industry attorneys have seen the contracts. It's not a question of bias. Either the information is factually correct or it's not. I told you where I got my information. Where did you get your information about Mears being paid by the bus and by the passenger? I asked you if you just made it up. I guess the answer is yes.

I think you must have me mixed up with someone else. As far as I know, I haven't mentioned costs for DME that Disney agreed to pay. However, I have seen other posts that Greg (yes the one you have also quoted) who said it was $25/person. I don't know if it's paid by person or by bus load or whatever... but in any case, I haven't MADE UP anything.

Again both the industry lawyers who quoted the agreement and the initial Disney press release announcing DME said guests are required to have an advance reservation. Disney is now agreeing to follow that policy. You're missing the point that an advance reservation is required. Should it be required? Disney can certainly negotiate differently if they're willing to pay whatever fee is necessary to provide that service. Saying anyone with a resort reservation should be allowed to ride DME, even without an advance reservation doesn't mean that's the rule.

Once again, this was not the case when DME started and is NOT the case right now. You have been corrected several times by me and others and also by a Disney CM who quoted the information from their systems. I'm not sure how many times it has to be stated for you to understand that until November 1, you can show up WITHOUT a reservation and ride a DME bus and this WAS allowed by the agreement with MCO. You just have to pick up your luggage. After Nov 1, you do have to have a reservation for DME. I've made the observation several times that it's ludicrous to require the reservation since only resort guests can use the service. Whether Disney gives in to placate the livery group is beside the point.

I have no idea how many people show up without making ground transportation arrangements in advance. Many travelers know they can just grab a cab at the airport. We sometimes make the mistake of thinking that everyone does the advance planning that we do.

I do agree. I'd be surprised if enforcing the rules has a dramatic impact on their business but I was surprised to find an Orlando resident paying to ride DME to the AKL. There are reports on other internet board of people seeing DME greeters steering people to Mears to purchase vouchers.

If someone asks a greeter how to utilize DME and they fit the requirements, then the greeters SHOULD steer them to the counters. That, my friend, is NOT solicitation.

 

[lewisc]

Sorry

I was quoting different posters, it was Thrawn who said Mears is paid per bus. Sorry for my mix up but

I CONTINUE TO CORRECT YOU AND OTHERS. According to the industry lawyer, who quoted the agreement, Disney was never allowed to transport guests without an advance reservation. Disney's initial press release said guests must have an advance reservation to be transported. The question is if Disney is changing their policy to comply with an airport request or if they're changing to start following rules they've been violating I know Disney claims they were allowed to transport guests without a reservation but that doesn't mean they were allowed to do so. We can agree to disagree. Disney backed down. That really tells me all I need to know. As far as I'm concerned Disney was either breaking the agreement or was told to stop bending the rules. There was no reason for Disney to back down if they didn't have to.

The airport really dropped the ball with this program. Ground transportation companies pay a fee to the airport. All reports indicate the number of DME passengers is significantly larger than numbers Disney projected to MCO officials when the deal was negotiated. The airport is losing revenue as a result of the agreement they gave Disney. My guess, really speculation, is Disney would be charged a higher fee if the airport knew how many guests were being diverted. Enforcing a rule requiring an advance reservation may be a way to reduce the lost revenue.

I have no problem if Disney negotiates a change to the contract to allow for "walk ups" but they're really not entitle to do what they want. People without advance reservations can rent a car or take a taxi. The airport might want fees commensurate with what those companies pay.

Sending a person to the Mears desk to purchase a voucher is solicitation.

I think you must have me mixed up with someone else. As far as I know, I haven't mentioned costs for DME that Disney agreed to pay. However, I have seen other posts that Greg (yes the one you have also quoted) who said it was $25/person. I don't know if it's paid by person or by bus load or whatever... but in any case, I haven't MADE UP anything.


Once again, this was not the case when DME started and is NOT the case right now. You have been corrected several times by me and others and also by a Disney CM who quoted the information from their systems. I'm not sure how many times it has to be stated for you to understand that until November 1, you can show up WITHOUT a reservation and ride a DME bus and this WAS allowed by the agreement with MCO. You just have to pick up your luggage. After Nov 1, you do have to have a reservation for DME. I've made the observation several times that it's ludicrous to require the reservation since only resort guests can use the service. Whether Disney gives in to placate the livery group is beside the point.



If someone asks a greeter how to utilize DME and they fit the requirements, then the greeters SHOULD steer them to the counters. That, my friend, is NOT solicitation.

 

[wannab@dis]

I was quoting different posters, it was Thrawn who said Mears is paid per bus. Sorry for my mix up but

I CONTINUE TO CORRECT YOU AND OTHERS. According to the industry lawyer, who quoted the agreement, Disney was never allowed to transport guests without an advance reservation. Disney's initial press release said guests must have an advance reservation to be transported. The question is if Disney is changing their policy to comply with an airport request or if they're changing to start following rules they've been violating I know Disney claims they were allowed to transport guests without a reservation but that doesn't mean they were allowed to do so. We can agree to disagree. Disney backed down. That really tells me all I need to know. As far as I'm concerned Disney was either breaking the agreement or was told to stop bending the rules. There was no reason for Disney to back down if they didn't have to.

What makes you so sure that you are correct? The literature about the DME service was available for 4 months prior to it starting and noone complained then and I'm sure it was reviewed by everyone concerned including the livery groups and the airport.

The airport really dropped the ball with this program. Ground transportation companies pay a fee to the airport. All reports indicate the number of DME passengers is significantly larger than numbers Disney projected to MCO officials when the deal was negotiated. The airport is losing revenue as a result of the agreement they gave Disney. My guess, really speculation, is Disney would be charged a higher fee if the airport knew how many guests were being diverted. Enforcing a rule requiring an advance reservation may be a way to reduce the lost revenue.

I have no problem if Disney negotiates a change to the contract to allow for "walk ups" but they're really not entitle to do what they want. People without advance reservations can rent a car or take a taxi. The airport might want fees commensurate with what those companies pay.

It seems to me that your beef should be with the airport who attempts to make money off the businesses that want to do business with their customers. No? Then Disney should charge every cab company and towncar service a fee to enter their property. That would turn some heads, don't you think?

Sending a person to the Mears desk to purchase a voucher is solicitation.

You really need to check out the dictionary a little more... If a guest asks about the DME service, the CM giving an answer IS NOT solicitation...

so·lic·it ([FONT=verdana,sans-serif] P [/FONT]) Pronunciation Key (s

-l

s

t)
v. so·lic·it·ed, so·lic·it·ing, so·lic·its
v. tr.

1. To seek to obtain by persuasion, entreaty, or formal application: <cite>a candidate who solicited votes among the factory workers.</cite>
2. To petition persistently; importune: <cite>solicited the neighbors for donations.</cite>
3. To entice or incite to evil or illegal action.
4. To approach or accost (a person) with an offer of sexual services.

v. intr.

1. To make solicitation or petition for something desired.
2. To approach or accost someone with an offer of sexual services in return for payment.

 

[lewisc]

The initial press release said an advance reservation would be required. All the early materials said advance reservations were required. Disney tells you if you want to use DME make sure you give them your flight information. It was only after the program started that it became evident that Disney was transporting guests without advance reservations. Why am so sure? The livery lawyers said Disney was violating the agreement and Disney backed down without a fight.

Actually Disney charges a fee to limo companies that transport guests to a MK resort. Airports make money by charging fees to people who use their facilities. Parking, rent, franchise fees etc.

Only specific taxi companies are allowed to line up to solicit business at a Disney resort. I don't think Disney gets a fee but I'm not sure.

I'd consider it solicitation when a DME greeter sends a guest to Mears to purchase a voucher.

What makes you so sure that you are correct? The literature about the DME service was available for 4 months prior to it starting and noone complained then and I'm sure it was reviewed by everyone concerned including the livery groups and the airport.



It seems to me that your beef should be with the airport who attempts to make money off the businesses that want to do business with their customers. No? Then Disney should charge every cab company and towncar service a fee to enter their property. That would turn some heads, don't you think?



You really need to check out the dictionary a little more... If a guest asks about the DME service, the CM giving an answer IS NOT solicitation...

 

[wannab@dis]

The initial press release said an advance reservation would be required. All the early materials said advance reservations were required.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showpost.php?p=1281708&postcount=101

This was allowed in the original agreement with MCO and was advertised as such.

Per Disney's original FAQ's as released to Travel Agents, Disney Cast Members, and the press on 12/31/04:

10. Can I book Disney's Magical Express upon arrival at the airport?
We are encouraging you to book your reservation pre-arrival so that you fully benefit from the service and a seamless luggage delivery to your resort room. If you arrive at the airport without a reservation, every effort will be made to accommodate you. In this instance, you must claim your luggage.

No, I'm sorry... but as shown in the post above.... the information available on 12/31/2004, you could show up and utilize DME without a reservation. :wave:

 

[lewisc]

The original press release said an advance reservation is required.
http://www.wdwmagic.com/magicalexpress.htm go down to the 12/28 press release where a 10 day advance reservation is required.

I clearly referred to the original Disney press release in all my posts.

Go to the Disney website. Go to book a vacation. When you pick a resort it says includes Disney's Magical Express Click on the link and it tells you to make your reservation 10 days in advance.

The livery association lawyer who read the agreement said an advance reservation is required.

The internet sites that describe DME all said an advance reservation is required.
http://www.mouseplanet.com/lani/tp050201lt.htm
is an example.


The fact that JPVonDrake says a reservation wasn't originally required doesn't mean much to me. AFAIK he isn't in a position to have read the contract between Disney and MCO. He is the one who posted the color coded DME bus routes which turned out to be only partially correct. The fact that an internal FAQ may have said that Disney is going to try to accommodate walk ups doesn't change the fact that all the official material said otherwise.

The fact is the industry complained to MCO. They said the agreement requires an advance reservation. MCO told Disney to stop transporting guests without a prior reservation. Disney agreed to comply with the request. I don't think Disney would have agreed to change if the language permitted it.

We haven't read the agreement but I draw a conclusion from the above facts. You're entitled to have a different interpretation but mine is based on the official Disney statements, the information Disney gives a guest when they book online and the statement of a livery association attorney who read the agreement.

 

[james15]

Personally i think you have alot of smaller companys crying foul .BEing in the business myself i will point out somethings that have shocked me about the taxi business in orlando.1] Accounts with motels it is cheaper for the smaller to midsize motel chains to contract transportation for there clients than pay a driver,buy a van,insure a van and maintain a van.Not to mention the inconvience of bringing a driver in for missed flights or late flights.2]Having plenty of vechiles available at peak times.pleasure island or city walk at 2am i myself have had a few drinks so i did not drive my own vechile and sure dont want hang around hoping to catch a resort bus. But i always have a problem finding a cab when at pi or city walk.3]Be a player in the community we have a program from thanksgiving to new years day one for the road.A free ride home or back to your motel for those who have had to much to drink. Got a great bunch of business that help us out with that.Thats just a few i know those have nothing directly to do with the issues at the airport.If these other areas where being taken care of the lose of the disney guest whould not be near has hard to swallow.Theres ton of untapped potential for taxi and livery companys in orlando.There going to have to take the first step and realize those days of sitting at the airport living off the disneys guest are over.Theres nothing happing at mco thats not happing to other taxi and livery companys across the country.

 

[SpenceMan01]

 

[james15]

Let me clarify Mears is a first class company and there are a few others.But ones got believe part of disney starting Dme is the horror storys of the gypsy cabbies running out of mco.Gypsy in the taxi business is one who picks up at a places he does not have permits to do so or has unregulated rates.There usually the ones running up to you has you leave the terminal you go to disney i take you.I do believe disney is looking out for there guest.

 

[wannab@dis]

The fact that JPVonDrake says a reservation wasn't originally required doesn't mean much to me. AFAIK he isn't in a position to have read the contract between Disney and MCO. He is the one who posted the color coded DME bus routes which turned out to be only partially correct. The fact that an internal FAQ may have said that Disney is going to try to accommodate walk ups doesn't change the fact that all the official material said otherwise.

The fact is the industry complained to MCO. They said the agreement requires an advance reservation. MCO told Disney to stop transporting guests without a prior reservation. Disney agreed to comply with the request. I don't think Disney would have agreed to change if the language permitted it.

We haven't read the agreement but I draw a conclusion from the above facts. You're entitled to have a different interpretation but mine is based on the official Disney statements, the information Disney gives a guest when they book online and the statement of a livery association attorney who read the agreement.

Tell you what... you keep trying to tell yourself whatever you want and that's fine. I was active here when DME started and many people used the service (with Disney's blessing and I assume the airports) without a reservation. In fact, one of biggest things that came up was the baggage tags didn't arrive in time and yet they could still use the service. Guests arriving on quick trips used the service when they booked just a few days before. You'll find posts here where Disney said they could show up and use DME even without the reservations. It was standard practice and makes perfect sense to anyone with a speck of common sense.

But all of that doesn't matter. It's changing at the end of the month so the deadbeats can make a few bucks off the Disney guests without having to work for it. I'm looking forward to seeing the news next month. I'm sure they will start complaining about some other part of DME and want concessions. First was the 3rd floor greeters and now is the requirement of reservations. What we are seeing here is a crack, albeit small, in capitalism. It is protectionism at work and it's a sad thing to see. This type of socialistic behavior that some want has been proven a failure many times over.

I'm not going to continue this nonsense. You can believe what you want and try to enjoy your narrow view of the world. If it makes you happy, then who am I to question it?

Have a magical day! :wave:

 

[Mystic]

I really don't believe that DME will become a paid service once the Celebration is over. This service was initiated by WDW to attract guests to their hotels and away from the myriad of other hotels that have been springing up all over Orlando.

I for one stayed at a Disney Resort during my last trip on July/05 , having stayed off property for my last three trips, because of DME. So I really don't think Disney will risk losing the resort business (which I think is hugely profitable for them and easily compensates their investment in DME) by charging for DME.:wave:

If you read the official guide for 2006 they mention the fact that DME could become a paid service before the end of 2006.

I'll be sticking to my towncar!

 

[lewisc]

It's not protectionism when competing business operate on a level playing field. Protectionism is giving Disney exclusive access to level three. Protectionism is allowing DME to be the only transportation that's not required to be on both the "A" and "B" side of the terminal. Protectionism is giving DME more favorable fees.

TALK ABOUT NONSENSE.

Believe what you want. All the official Disney material that was released to the public said advance reservations were required. I gave you the links, you gave me a post from a board member. The lawyer for the livery group said Disney was violating the agreement by transporting walk ups. They saw the agreement we didn't. The airport told Disney to stop transporting walk ups and Disney is complying. You can believe that Disney decided to back down for absolutely no reason. A more logical explanation is Disney decided not to challenge the airports interpretation of the contract. This link describes the letter from the airports attorney to Disney.
http://www.magicalmountain.net/WDWNewsDetail.asp?page=1&NewsID=1003
Sounds like Disney thought if they didn't offically say walk ups would be accomodated they could getaway with it.


Of course I know Disney was transporting walk ups. The question is if they were violating their contract. There is a difference between accommodating the occasional guest who made their hotel reservation a few days before their trip and using the greeters to actually drum up business, some for DME and some paying customers for Mears.

Internet savvy Disney guests know to take DME, use codes to get a good rental car rate or pre-book a towncar. That doesn't change the fact that some travelers just grab a cab when they get to their destination.

DME is good for the guest. I've used it and will use it again. It's a good concept. It's a shame more airlines don't participate with the resort check in part of DME. No matter what other transportation entities will be hurt. They can't compete with a company that's engaging in "dumping", offering a product below cost.

Disney is going to have a big decision to make for 2007. DME works great. A lot of guests use it which means buses can be dispatched frequently and they don't have to make many stops. Start charging what the service costs, at least $25-$35, and families may decide to go back to renting a car or taking a towncar with a grocery stop. Enough guests stop using DME and the service will go back to being the same as the prior Mears service.

The fact that the service is good for the guest doesn't change the fact that the livery association is entitled to be treated fairly.

What we are seeing here is a crack, albeit small, in capitalism. It is protectionism at work and it's a sad thing to see. This type of socialistic behavior that some want has been proven a failure many times over.

I'm not going to continue this nonsense. You can believe what you want and try to enjoy your narrow view of the world. If it makes you happy, then who am I to question it?

Have a magical day! :wave:

 

[SpenceMan01]

Wow. I can't tell who's on what side anymore. :veryconfu

 

[socalkdg]

So lets see. I fly into Orlando, no prearranged transportation. I can:

1 - Get free shuttle to a hotel
2 - Get free shuttle to car rental agency that is offsite from the airport
3 - Take a cab
4 - Take a limo
5 - Rent a car from the airport

But I can't take free Disney transportation to a hotel, even if its where I'm staying?

Your right, its not a level playing field. Disney is at a disadvantage.

 

[Thrawn]

Can't believe this thread is still going on.

 

[MickeyTigg]

Can't believe this thread is still going on.

You da man Thrawn...my thoughts exactly.

 

[lewisc]

Wow. I can't tell who's on what side anymore. :veryconfu

The lawyers for Disney, the livery association, the airport and the courts will figure out what Disney is allowed to do. Disney is certainly allowed to offer DME but is required to follow rules.

My posts are directed to the handful of posters that are ignoring and/or making up facts. I have no patience for the few posters who seem to think the airport and livery owners are socialists, un-American and anti-competitive because they want Disney to live up to the terms of the their contract and not be given an unfair competitive advantage.

socalkdg--Without an advance reservation you can't take a limo service such as quicksilver. You can take a taxi.

DME requires an advance reservation. According to Disney's initial press release, the lawyer for the airport and the lawyer for the livery association an advance reservation is required. At some time after the initial press release Disney interperted the rules so they could accomodate walkups but never included this new "interpertation" in any of the offical materials provided to the public.

Disney is free to negotiate a contract with the airport to allow DME to transport walkups. My guess is the airport would require DME to be on both sides of the terminal and might require a higher fee.

 

[wannab@dis]

The lawyers for Disney, the livery association, the airport and the courts will figure out what Disney is allowed to do. Disney is certainly allowed to offer DME but is required to follow rules.

My posts are directed to the handful of posters that are ignoring and/or making up facts. I have no patience for the few posters who seem to think the airport and livery owners are socialists, un-American and anti-competitive because they want Disney to live up to the terms of the their contract and not be given an unfair competitive advantage.

I said I was done, but you just don't quit.

I don't know who you are pointing at as making up facts, but so far YOU are the only person who states things as if there is no question that YOU are the only one here who is correct. Everyone else has stated it as 'we don't know exactly what's in the contract'. Go get a copy and post it for us to see. Until then, don't pretend that you have all the facts.

It was common knowledge for 10 months that you could show up at the airport, get your bags and board a DME bus IF you had resort reservations. Disney suggested that you get a reservation so that the luggage tags would allow your luggage to be pulled and transfered directly. If that was outside the contract, so be it. However, it was common knowledge for anyone following DME yet nobody complained about it until recently.

The livery groups will find something else to complain about. They don't want to compete with Disney, they want to feed off their customers.

 

[Thrawn]

The livery groups will find something else to complain about. They don't want to compete with Disney, they want to feed off their customers.

This is exactly it. First they started with the "They are on the third floor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111one!! Oh noes!!!!"

They got that concession, so they've moved on to the "they can transport people without DME luggage tags" (which is what it basically amounts to, since you get DME with your resort reservation). They are going to keep going until they are shot down repeatedly.

You know, what Disney should do is have two seperate DME reservations. One group should be anyone who reserves a room. Therefore, you have a reservation for the service, should you choose to use it. The second reservation group should be for the people that actually request it, these are the people that would get the luggage tags and the people that Disney would know are coming so they have an idea on how many busses to bring. The people in the first group, since they have reservations, would also be able to take DME once they got to the airport.