Buying resale

[Lensman]

How did we get to a knock-down-drag-out brawl again?

I think my general con on "buy where you want to stay", is it implies money is no object....which is irresponsible IMO. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars here for vacation.

Yes, if you have a plethora of disposable income, buy wherever you want.
But, I suspect a reasonable number of DVC members don't have the money to spend; as evident by the availability of financing and the absurd rates charged.

I'd rather amend the statement to "buy what's affordable and where you would enjoy staying".

I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of the advice of "buy where you want to stay" . I will expand on this later.

It's not irresponsible if you hate SSR and refuse to buy there because you never want to be stuck there. Then again this is a vacation so nothing about spending money is 'responsible' at all. Seriously it's a luxury, so if you are only into this for being as exactly cheap as possible, then you're looking at the wrong thing.

That is literally the point of DVC...pre-paid cheaper vacations. That's the main attraction, that's the main draw.
If you don't believe so, then it would be wiser to NOT buy into DVC, invest the money in the market and use the gains to pay retail prices which can still be used at DVC resorts.

I think you're misinterpreting @helenabear's statement that buying DVC is a luxury purchase and that people who are looking to be as cheap as possible should not be purchasing DVC. I will expand on this later.

By your logic, instead of buying that luxury Lexus for $35K, might as well buy the luxury Lamborghini for $200K. Both are luxury items, thus money is no object? Makes absolutely no sense....zero sense.

This is either an example of reductio ad absurdum or a straw man argument. I can't decide which.

At any rate, your example is meaningless in the context of evaluating @helenabear's argument that buying DVC is a luxury purchase, and so you should think about buying where you want to stay.

We are talking within the confines of DVC membership, which is a luxury item. A Kia vs BMW comparison isn't valid because a Kia isn't a luxury car. Why are you changing the parameters of the discussion?!

You conveniently ignored my previous statement, "If you don't believe so, then it would be wiser to NOT buy into DVC, invest the money in the market and use the gains to pay retail prices which can still be used at DVC resorts."
I mean, clearly you didn't do that because you are realizing the savings of a DVC membership, which......again.......is the main attraction to DVC membership.

Aha! This is great! So you do agree with @helenabear that DVC is a luxury item, despite your seeming protests to the contrary. I think the rest of us were confused by your previous argumentativeness into thinking that you didn't think DVC was a luxury.

At any rate, here's my expanded thinking that I kept promising from earlier in this post:
DVC is a luxury purchase, but it is a luxury purchase marketed as being a smart way of pre-purchasing vacation stays. I'd say it's similar to the way fractional jet purchases are marketed as a way of saving money over the alternatives (which I guess are to outright buy a private jet or to charter a private jet). So in this comparison, people buy fractional jet ownership to save money, but their purchase is a luxury purchase even though saving money is part of the reason you're purchasing private jet travel through fractional ownership.

Anyway, as such, the logical process starts from the end-goal of what you want, which is vacation lodging at WDW. So the first question you should ask yourself is, "Do I have a preference for where I would like to stay?" This goes along with "How many days per year do I want to stay?" and "How many people are in my travel family". And the reason that you ask this upfront is that if your purpose is to replace your current resort stays at monorail resorts vs replace your current resort stays for Food & Wine at Crescent Lake resorts, you will be driven towards purchasing at one or other of those DVC resorts rather than OKW, SSR, or CCV, because in order to get the vacation reservations that you want most of the time, you will need to book using the 11-month home resort window advantage. And that is why the saying "buy where you want to stay".

Obviously, there are other competing concerns like, "buy resale to get better pricing" and "buy where annual dues are the lowest" and "you can get great deals on SSR points". But the "buy where you want to stay" advice is the most common because it is one of the bigger sources of regret as it's not obvious why you need to follow it until you've owned for a while and figured out how hard it is to book GFV at the 7 month window. People give that advice out of a desire to keep people from repeating their mistake. And @HansGruber, that's why I feel bad for the people you are disrespecting for their generosity in wanting others to learn from their mistakes.

Thank you again @helenabear for your generosity. And thanks to everyone who has generously tried to help the OP in this thread.

 

[correcaminos]

Seriously?! You quoted me in Post #9!! And my question wasn't even directed at you!
I've been quoting off of THAT thread. Go back and follow the chain. I haven't once responded to your original statement.

We are talking within the confines of DVC membership, which is a luxury item. A Kia vs BMW comparison isn't valid because a Kia isn't a luxury car. Why are you changing the parameters of the discussion?!

You conveniently ignored my previous statement, "If you don't believe so, then it would be wiser to NOT buy into DVC, invest the money in the market and use the gains to pay retail prices which can still be used at DVC resorts."
I mean, clearly you didn't do that because you are realizing the savings of a DVC membership, which......again.......is the main attraction to DVC membership.

Yes I quoted you, but originally said that size must be taken into consideration as well for how fast a resort books. It's not point blank that cheaper point locations book faster. For example, OKW is cheaper than SSR and it books up first of the two. That was actually in line with what you were saying. No need to go back, so try to dial back the tone with me. I'm about to lose patience with you again for your manners here.

Pick whatever cars you want for luxury items. My point is the same. No trip is a need. Neither is a car really which is why I used those brands. Pick even within the brands BMW 3 vs M3 if you so choose to. The M3 is more fun than the 3. Neither are really necessary.

I didn't conveniently leave out anything. There isn't just a black and white with buying DVC and investing. You can do somewhere in between like, oh rent an offsite house and spend money on other things. Really not all just one or another - life is gray not black & white.

I bought because I wanted to be a part of DVC. It financially made sense for me vs spending the same amount on other Disney stays. I wouldn't however taken the money and invested it though. I likely would've bought some other luxury item with it. So nope, wouldn't have done what you are suggesting because there is a lot of in-between in life

I will ask you yet again (you keep not answering) why are you here?

 

[TheGuyThatMakesSwords]

Sigh.... In before the lock . Really, as this does not affect us? Everyone should buy whatever they like... It's your money, and your choice.

I have to agree with the concept of "buy where you want to stay". DVC owners for 6 years now? We've hit breakeven - and that 11 month home resort booking window has been a Godsend.

Just OUR experience.... All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

 

[Networth]

Sigh.... In before the lock . Really, as this does not affect us? Everyone should buy whatever they like... It's your money, and your choice.

I have to agree with the concept of "buy where you want to stay". DVC owners for 6 years now? We've hit breakeven - and that 11 month home resort booking window has been a Godsend.

Just OUR experience.... All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

Couldn’t agree more. Buy where you want to stay. It’s your money and your vacation time. Why do people always try to tell others what to do where their money and time. Just relax.

We loved the GF so we spent the “extra” money to buy points to make that our home. Otherwise good luck getting a studio or even a one bedroom for much of December at the Grand.

Good luck OP.

 

[correcaminos]

Couldn’t agree more. Buy where you want to stay. It’s your money and your vacation time. Why do people always try to tell others what to do where their money and time. Just relax.

We loved the GF so we spent the “extra” money to buy points to make that our home. Otherwise good luck getting a studio or even a one bedroom for much of December at the Grand.

Good luck OP.

We spent more for PVB for the same reason. Though for us it's the desire to have 2 connecting studios. I booked it once without enough points and boy was that stressful. I think if you love it, do it!

Sigh.... In before the lock . Really, as this does not affect us? Everyone should buy whatever they like... It's your money, and your choice.

I have to agree with the concept of "buy where you want to stay". DVC owners for 6 years now? We've hit breakeven - and that 11 month home resort booking window has been a Godsend.

Just OUR experience.... All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

Well said

And yeah I 'argued' with this guy, but I'm kind of tired of someone saying what others shouldn't do and make it feel like fact. If it's simply a money thing, then buy cheap cheap and only cheap. Otherwise do as you wish

 

[Networth]

We spent more for PVB for the same reason. Though for us it's the desire to have 2 connecting studios. I booked it once without enough points and boy was that stressful. I think if you love it, do it!

Here here!

Great resort by the way. We toured PVB before we ended up buying VGF (we did a resale last year). The studios were amazing at the Poly. The GF always has our heart though What are your thoughts on the Bungalows? I feel like it would be fun for one trip but those point costs .

I keep looking at the Cascade Cabins also at CCV speaking of expansive, they look amazing.

 

[HansGruber]

How did we get to a knock-down-drag-out brawl again?

I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of the advice of "buy where you want to stay" . I will expand on this later.




I think you're misinterpreting @helenabear's statement that buying DVC is a luxury purchase and that people who are looking to be as cheap as possible should not be purchasing DVC. I will expand on this later.


This is either an example of reductio ad absurdum or a straw man argument. I can't decide which.

At any rate, your example is meaningless in the context of evaluating @helenabear's argument that buying DVC is a luxury purchase, and so you should think about buying where you want to stay.


Aha! This is great! So you do agree with @helenabear that DVC is a luxury item, despite your seeming protests to the contrary. I think the rest of us were confused by your previous argumentativeness into thinking that you didn't think DVC was a luxury.

At any rate, here's my expanded thinking that I kept promising from earlier in this post:
DVC is a luxury purchase, but it is a luxury purchase marketed as being a smart way of pre-purchasing vacation stays. I'd say it's similar to the way fractional jet purchases are marketed as a way of saving money over the alternatives (which I guess are to outright buy a private jet or to charter a private jet). So in this comparison, people buy fractional jet ownership to save money, but their purchase is a luxury purchase even though saving money is part of the reason you're purchasing private jet travel through fractional ownership.

Anyway, as such, the logical process starts from the end-goal of what you want, which is vacation lodging at WDW. So the first question you should ask yourself is, "Do I have a preference for where I would like to stay?" This goes along with "How many days per year do I want to stay?" and "How many people are in my travel family". And the reason that you ask this upfront is that if your purpose is to replace your current resort stays at monorail resorts vs replace your current resort stays for Food & Wine at Crescent Lake resorts, you will be driven towards purchasing at one or other of those DVC resorts rather than OKW, SSR, or CCV, because in order to get the vacation reservations that you want most of the time, you will need to book using the 11-month home resort window advantage. And that is why the saying "buy where you want to stay".

Obviously, there are other competing concerns like, "buy resale to get better pricing" and "buy where annual dues are the lowest" and "you can get great deals on SSR points". But the "buy where you want to stay" advice is the most common because it is one of the bigger sources of regret as it's not obvious why you need to follow it until you've owned for a while and figured out how hard it is to book GFV at the 7 month window. People give that advice out of a desire to keep people from repeating their mistake. And @HansGruber, that's why I feel bad for the people you are disrespecting for their generosity in wanting others to learn from their mistakes.

Thank you again @helenabear for your generosity. And thanks to everyone who has generously tried to help the OP in this thread.

You read way too much into these discussions. I can't possibly dissect all the inaccuracies put forth by you.

I never once indicated DVC wasn't a luxury item. I can't even fathom how you came too such a poor interpretation or conclusion.

 

[HansGruber]

It financially made sense for me vs spending the same amount on other Disney stays.

Bingo. The very purpose of DVC. I'm not sure why you refute this.

 

[correcaminos]

Here here!

Great resort by the way. We toured PVB before we ended up buying VGF (we did a resale last year). The studios were amazing at the Poly. The GF always has our heart though What are your thoughts on the Bungalows? I feel like it would be fun for one trip but those point costs .

I keep looking at the Cascade Cabins also at CCV speaking of expansive, they look amazing.

Our third trip we ever took, we finally stayed at a regular resort and it was the Polynesian. We honeymooned there too, so I can relate to a resort having your heart!

I absolutely loved the bungalows and would do it again in a heartbeat if we didn't have a family who wanted to go more often lol. I really felt they were worth every single point we paid. We toured the cabins in June and got a similar feel as we did with the bungalows. We'll likely plan for a trip there sometime in the future. While I prefer the bungalows, the points of the cabins are easier to swallow for more owners.

Bingo. The very purpose of DVC. I'm not sure why you refute this.

Still a luxury item, and I didn't need it. By financially made sense I meant two things. 1) I wasn't going to throw money away by buying as long as I kept using DVC and 2) I had the spare cash not invested laying around. So no financing required. IMO if one had to finance it makes little financial sense to buy (in my opinion, others are free to feel as they wish - no judments here) .

I also wanted deluxe only stays instead of much much much cheaper offsite stays. Those finacially are wiser to do and a better deal if you invest and pay cash rates than DVC likely (too lazy to check those numbers so don't quote me on that as is a guess) if you want a deluxe stay though, you're not exactly being cost effective. Neither is us staying in a 2 bedroom for 3 of us only... sometimes 4. Over 4 I go for a GV or mutiple rooms, so I'm no poster child for being the most responsible in terms of being cost effective with DVC. I'm actually quite irresponsible in that way LOL

BTW I bought where I wanted to stay. Not just where was cheapest. So even if you think I proved some point or am refuting or whatever, I love my home resorts and wanted to buy in where I want to stay most and specifically for some harder to book room types.

And finally excuse typos. My tablet is bad and while I've caught many I know I've missed some.

 

[Lensman]

Neither is us staying in a 2 bedroom for 3 of us only... sometimes 4. Over 4 I go for a GV or mutiple rooms, so I'm no poster child for being the most responsible in terms of being cost effective with DVC. I'm actually quite irresponsible in that way LOL

You're not alone. We stay in the 1-bedroom as a couple and the 2-bedroom if there are 3 [or] more more of us.

haven't booked a GV or bungalo yet, though.

Edited: more -> or

 

[correcaminos]

You're not alone. We stay in the 1-bedroom as a couple and the 2-bedroom if there are 3 more more of us.

haven't booked a GV or bungalo yet, though.

We've done the bungalows, but only 4 stayed. It would feel tight for me to do much more than that (5 max if 2 shared the queen in the 2nd bedroom). We've mostly done 2 bedrooms and 1 extra studio because when we traveled, we had someone who could not handle stairs. It was easier to bom 2 rooms than 1 GV at resorts she wanted to stay at. My son has yet to stay at a GV, so I need to work than in for him somehow.

But our desire for space is why I have as many PVB points. We stay only with the 2 connecting studios for the 3 of us when we do. I prefer it to 1 bedrooms because no one is stuck on the sleeper sofa. Also why I won't do a 2 bedroom lock off for 4.

Definitely not a great example on how to use DVC wisely. But hey we love it!

 

[correcaminos]

When I bought, I purchased thinking I'd do studio stays since that's the room type I was used to staying in. I planned my points amount at the resort I loved the most and added some in thinking I might want to stay at different locations. Keep in mind I purchased in 2004 so we had OKW, BCV, BRV, BWV & barely opened SSR. There weren't as many point level choices.

Then we stayed in a 1 bedroom and loved it, but shortly after taking our first trip with a newborn, we knew a studio would never happen again. We did fine in a 1 bedroom and then for a big anniversary trip we did a 2 bedroom with only 4 of us in the room (we had a studio for others though) and yeah, we were spoiled rotten. We don't even like regular 1 bedrooms now.

So pro or con, we aren't use to regular hotel stays. We need condos/apartments/houses or at minimum 2 connecting rooms for 3 or 4 of us if we are elsewhere. We just aren't used to normal hotel rooms otherwise and don't like it. It has caused us to go for larger room types than before. While I might save over the AP discounts and such they offer for DVC rooms through the CRO, I spend more now so to speak on the larger rooms.

The other con is the pressure to buy more points to pay for the stays. We've done a few add-ons and now added more than before. I could use about double of what we originally had for what we like to do now. So my advice is to not ever purchase just the right amount of points - at minimum round up or add one extra night or or the like to be safe.



As I said above it did make me realize a very real and very important thought to buying. A lot of us don't just buy once and only once. So maybe keep that in mind when purchasing. Also go in with your eyes wide open to rising maintenance fees and such. DVC isn't cheap at buy in and it doesn't remain cheap either as you pay the fees.

 

[correcaminos]

@Lensman is exactly right. Because DVC is nothing more than a luxury item (as are all vacations) being 100% the most economical isn't as relevant as it could be. If someone came in asking "how do I save the most money" DVC would not necessarily be an answer. In fact it would only be if someone says they want upscale stays or larger room types and they want to go every year or two at minimum. It's really not something I suggest to those who prefer values, or off site stays. In fact when a friend who said they go several times a year says they want value stays, I let the idea of DVC go (though we did talk about it some as a possibility later).

I've found that DVC makes me less frugal in terms of room stays too (which is what I was saying above) but it also allows me to be more so with food since it's easier to keep food in rooms with a fridge, toaster & microwave.

I peaked at a post just to see, and I will just say I wasn't putting words in anyone's mouth. It was a difference of opinions with what each of us was meaning, not trying to twist things. If it was taken that way I apologize. I try to respect others on internet forums, but we're all human and read things wrong. I wasn't responding to that before because literally I did not see the post until now, so sorry for a delay.

 

[Phonedave]

This argumentative poster made me realize something that could be a pro or a con. When I bought, I purchased thinking I'd do studio stays since that's the room type I was used to staying in. I planned my points amount at the resort I loved the most and added some in thinking I might want to stay at different locations. Keep in mind I purchased in 2004 so we had OKW, BCV, BRV, BWV & barely opened SSR. There weren't as many point level choices.

Then we stayed in a 1 bedroom and loved it, but shortly after taking our first trip with a newborn, we knew a studio would never happen again. We did fine in a 1 bedroom and then for a big anniversary trip we did a 2 bedroom with only 4 of us in the room (we had a studio for others though) and yeah, we were spoiled rotten. We don't even like regular 1 bedrooms now.

So pro or con, we aren't use to regular hotel stays. We need condos/apartments/houses or at minimum 2 connecting rooms for 3 or 4 of us if we are elsewhere. We just aren't used to normal hotel rooms otherwise and don't like it. It has caused us to go for larger room types than before. While I might save over the AP discounts and such they offer for DVC rooms through the CRO, I spend more now so to speak on the larger rooms.

The other con is the pressure to buy more points to pay for the stays. We've done a few add-ons and now added more than before. I could use about double of what we originally had for what we like to do now. So my advice is to not ever purchase just the right amount of points - at minimum round up or add one extra night or or the like to be safe.

That right there is the biggest con of DVC. It spoils you. Before I bought DVC, staying at Pop Century was fine for me.

Now I am far from a snob - I live in a modest house, I drive a reasonable car, I do my own grocery shopping at a "normal" grocery store, and I get most of my everyday clothes at midrange stores such as Khols or Macys. However, I am not going to stay in Pop Century again. If I have to book a DVC studio (either because of availability or points) I am disappointed. If it is just my wife and myself, a 1BR. If we have any of the kids with us - 2BR. When I stay in hotels in other places, I end up comparing them to a 1BR DVC and am usually disappointed.

 

[correcaminos]

That right there is the biggest con of DVC. It spoils you. Before I bought DVC, staying at Pop Century was fine for me.

Now I am far from a snob - I live in a modest house, I drive a reasonable car, I do my own grocery shopping at a "normal" grocery store, and I get most of my everyday clothes at midrange stores such as Khols or Macys. However, I am not going to stay in Pop Century again. If I have to book a DVC studio (either because of availability or points) I am disappointed. If it is just my wife and myself, a 1BR. If we have any of the kids with us - 2BR. When I stay in hotels in other places, I end up comparing them to a 1BR DVC and am usually disappointed.

I'm kind of like you. Though we have a modest home, but I do drive a Mini and like to shop at Nordstrom now and then. But nothing over the top. I'd say even my 10yo is a bit spoiled by where we stay now and made a comment about not staying at the Values. I did have to tell him not all vacation as we do though. The size and amenities really does spoil one in a way though.

That's more generic buying DVC vs the original resale vs direct though. I'm definitely a run your numbers type of person to see if something is in your favor, or if it is not, how off is it and is that extra worth it to you? I think that's most everything in life though. We run numbers and see how we feel once they are run and go from there.

 

[TheGuyThatMakesSwords]

That right there is the biggest con of DVC. It spoils you. Before I bought DVC, staying at Pop Century was fine for me.

Now I am far from a snob - I live in a modest house, I drive a reasonable car, I do my own grocery shopping at a "normal" grocery store, and I get most of my everyday clothes at midrange stores such as Khols or Macys. However, I am not going to stay in Pop Century again. If I have to book a DVC studio (either because of availability or points) I am disappointed. If it is just my wife and myself, a 1BR. If we have any of the kids with us - 2BR. When I stay in hotels in other places, I end up comparing them to a 1BR DVC and am usually disappointed.

Wait.... you can afford Khols or Macys? Best our little town has any more is WALMART & Amazon .
We own at BRV.... and for us (a couple of 65 year olds with no children anymore), a Studio is just great . We LOVE our DVC. Now, if only airfare from MI would go down .

 

[Phonedave]

I'm kind of like you. Though we have a modest home, but I do drive a Mini and like to shop at Nordstrom now and then. But nothing over the top. I'd say even my 10yo is a bit spoiled by where we stay now and made a comment about not staying at the Values. I did have to tell him not all vacation as we do though. The size and amenities really does spoil one in a way though.

That's more generic buying DVC vs the original resale vs direct though. I'm definitely a run your numbers type of person to see if something is in your favor, or if it is not, how off is it and is that extra worth it to you? I think that's most everything in life though. We run numbers and see how we feel once they are run and go from there.

I guess the term "reasonable" car depends on the person. I consider a Mini reasonable - I drive a Ford Focus Titanium and my wife has a Ford Explorer XLT and I consider them reasonable as well. Maybe its because around here you see a LOT of expensive cars. I have seen Maseratis at Home Depot, Target, and Restaurant Depot (of all places, who uses their Maserati to pick up 50 lbs of beef)

It really does boil down to what you said, I run numbers and then we look at what you get for those numbers, and then make a decision.

 

[Phonedave]

Wait.... you can afford Khols or Macys? Best our little town has any more is WALMART & Amazon .
We own at BRV.... and for us (a couple of 65 year olds with no children anymore), a Studio is just great . We LOVE our DVC. Now, if only airfare from MI would go down .

I wish airfare from NJ would go down as well. It just keeps going up and up.

 

[wdisney9000]

But I suspect only hard-core/ picky members NEED to stay at certain resorts. Most DVC members will enjoy any resort they visit.

We recently purchased DVC (resale) at BWV. We chose BWV for several reasons that will make our vacations much more enjoyable for the way we tour WDW. We enjoy the proximity the resort offers to Epcot (for the festivals) and HS and also all the dining and drinking options that the parks and the Boardwalk offers, not to mention the offerings at YC/BC across Crescent Lake.

We considered purchasing a contract at OKW because it was much cheaper, but as @helenabear pointed out, the 7 month window to book other resorts is getting more difficult each month. Having the 11 month window of BWV has already been valuable for several trips we have booked. We booked a trip at BWV for F&G next Spring at the 11 month window and we had our choice of room type (standard view, Pool or BW view). I checked again around the 7 month window and there was extremely limited availability at BWV, but SSR was the only resort with a lot of rooms still available. If we had purchased the OKW contract to get more points, we would have been "stuck" at SSR for the F&G trip. Being at BWV will be extremely easy to get to Epcot and enjoy the festival which in turn will make out trip more enjoyable and relaxing. We chose convenience and peace of mind over "cheapest contract with the most points". Over the course of the next 20 years, the extra money we spent on the BWV contract is minimal.

 

[wdisney9000]

You are complaining about a 20 minute bus trip making your vacation less enjoyable and less relaxing

When did I complain? I purchased at BWV for the exact reasons I mentioned. We spend more time in Epcot than the other parks. We enjoy having the variety of dining and drinking options that the Boardwalk and YC/BC offer. If staying at BWV prevents us from having to take a bus (to and from) to enjoy those amenities and also allows us easy access to return to our room, then it just makes sense. You call it "complaining"???

OKW is a great resort. I never said anything negative about it. We simply enjoy BWV more. I am sure there are just as many people who enjoy OKW over BWV. Are they "complaining" if they express that opinion? Or should DVC be more of a socialism program and everything be exactly the same for everybody?