Bus Fire- Magic Kingdom

[onelilspark]

I was pointed here from a member of another site. I was there and saw the burned bus, we rode the monorail around again as we had some time to kill (before heading to the airport) and I took a picture, but by then they had moved another bus in front of the burned bus, so you couldn't see it from the monorail anymore. That was around 2-ish.

Let's see if I can post pictures since I'm new...

 

[goofntink]

Okay to get this thread back on topic. Yes,we had bus #4798 have a mechanical failure at the Magic Kingdom in load zone 17 (Pop century),which caused a small fire. Driver had called in to the coordinators that the battery light and stop engine light were on and shut the bus down in the load zone. No guests were on board and there were no guests in the load zone.We were in the process of calling "Diesel" which is our mobile bus maintenance truck to come out to check the bus,when the driver called back reporting bus was now "Signal 25" on fire. As a precaution because the bus was partially under the canopy Reedy Creek was immediately called and the fire was reported. We were able to use the fire extinguisher on the bus and one in the load zone to put the fire out before Reedy Creek fire trucks arrived.The fire we determined was caused by a bad battery in the battery compartment as that is where the fire originated from.. After the fire around 5:30 pm,all of our RTS busses in the fleet were sent to FIW and inspected and then returned to service. Bus #4798 has been written of and is no longer in service.

As to the post saying our service is in shambles. Really? If it is in such a bad state than explain why we have put almost 100 brand new busses in service in the past 5 months? Or why we have an order out for over a hundred more? We have gone from 291 busses in the fleet on January 1st of this year to currently almost 400. And this still includes us taking a large number of our older RTS fleet out of service. Which by the way are not because they are worn out,we are wanting to have a complete modern fleet of busses. And just so you know the RTS aren't being scrapped,we actually have buyers such as CTA and NYTA that are purchasing the busses for their fleets.and our entire massive inventory of parts for them. We are larger than pretty much most of the municipal bus services around the country,and we on average on a daily basis have 10-12 busses out of the fleet down for service. And the reason is for routine maintenance ( i.e oil change,tire replacement,transmission service). And a majority of those busses are returned to service before 5pm same day.

And to correct Monorail Red,sorry you are mis informed our entire fleet including the RTS busses all run on Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel, not biodiesel made from the the oil from all across property. We don't have anything including the ferry boats that run on biodiesel. Wanted to add all the new ones also have a seperate tank for/and use DEF

 

[MaryJaneP]

Wanted to add all the new ones also have a seperate tank for/and use DEF

I am not familiar with the DEF abbreviation. What does that stand for?

I wanted to add that I feel infinitely more safe on Disney transport than I feel on any other mass transit system on Earth.

I appreciate GoofnTink's stats and Monorail Red's input. Detractors beginning to sound fanboish.

EDIT: DEF stands for Diesel Exhaust Fluid, a technology to minimize NOx emissions from diesel combustion engines.

 

[Master Yoda]

I am not familiar with the DEF abbreviation. What does that stand for?

I wanted to add that I feel infinitely more safe on Disney transport than I feel on any other mass transit system on Earth.

I appreciate GoofnTink's stats and Monorail Red's input. Detractors beginning to sound fanboish.

EDIT: DEF stands for Diesel Exhaust Fluid, a technology to minimize NOx emissions from diesel combustion engines.

In this context I would assume that he is referring to diesel exhaust fluid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQHvi2Lgnac

 

[NormC]

Okay to get this thread back on topic. Yes,we had bus #4798 have a mechanical failure at the Magic Kingdom in load zone 17 (Pop century),which caused a small fire. Driver had called in to the coordinators that the battery light and stop engine light were on and shut the bus down in the load zone. No guests were on board and there were no guests in the load zone.We were in the process of calling "Diesel" which is our mobile bus maintenance truck to come out to check the bus,when the driver called back reporting bus was now "Signal 25" on fire. As a precaution because the bus was partially under the canopy Reedy Creek was immediately called and the fire was reported. We were able to use the fire extinguisher on the bus and one in the load zone to put the fire out before Reedy Creek fire trucks arrived.The fire we determined was caused by a bad battery in the battery compartment as that is where the fire originated from.. After the fire around 5:30 pm,all of our RTS busses in the fleet were sent to FIW and inspected and then returned to service. Bus #4798 has been written of and is no longer in service.

As to the post saying our service is in shambles. Really? If it is in such a bad state than explain why we have put almost 100 brand new busses in service in the past 5 months? Or why we have an order out for over a hundred more? We have gone from 291 busses in the fleet on January 1st of this year to currently almost 400. And this still includes us taking a large number of our older RTS fleet out of service. Which by the way are not because they are worn out,we are wanting to have a complete modern fleet of busses. And just so you know the RTS aren't being scrapped,we actually have buyers such as CTA and NYTA that are purchasing the busses for their fleets.and our entire massive inventory of parts for them. We are larger than pretty much most of the municipal bus services around the country,and we on average on a daily basis have 10-12 busses out of the fleet down for service. And the reason is for routine maintenance ( i.e oil change,tire replacement,transmission service). And a majority of those busses are returned to service before 5pm same day.

And to correct Monorail Red,sorry you are mis informed our entire fleet including the RTS busses all run on Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel, not biodiesel made from the the oil from all across property. We don't have anything including the ferry boats that run on biodiesel. Wanted to add all the new ones also have a seperate tank for/and use DEF

Thank you for your factual post in this thread.

 

[Polydweller]

I wanted to add that I feel infinitely more safe on Disney transport than I feel on any other mass transit system on Earth.

I appreciate GoofnTink's stats and Monorail Red's input.

Absolutely agree and a lot of thanks to Goofntink and Monorail Red. It's great to get the real story which just shows that Disney does have good procedures, systems, and especially people in place. Definitely it's not a shambles.

It's too bad that so many on the various boards are so quick to react negatively about everything when they don't have the full story.

 

[Foolish Mortal]

I feel safer on Disney transit than any other form of "public" transit out there.

Couldn't agree more !!

Okay to get this thread back on topic. Yes,we had bus #4798 have a mechanical failure at the Magic Kingdom in load zone 17 (Pop century),which caused a small fire. Driver had called in to the coordinators that the battery light and stop engine light were on and shut the bus down in the load zone. No guests were on board and there were no guests in the load zone.We were in the process of calling "Diesel" which is our mobile bus maintenance truck to come out to check the bus,when the driver called back reporting bus was now "Signal 25" on fire. As a precaution because the bus was partially under the canopy Reedy Creek was immediately called and the fire was reported. We were able to use the fire extinguisher on the bus and one in the load zone to put the fire out before Reedy Creek fire trucks arrived.The fire we determined was caused by a bad battery in the battery compartment as that is where the fire originated from.. After the fire around 5:30 pm,all of our RTS busses in the fleet were sent to FIW and inspected and then returned to service. Bus #4798 has been written of and is no longer in service.

As to the post saying our service is in shambles. Really? If it is in such a bad state than explain why we have put almost 100 brand new busses in service in the past 5 months? Or why we have an order out for over a hundred more? We have gone from 291 busses in the fleet on January 1st of this year to currently almost 400. And this still includes us taking a large number of our older RTS fleet out of service. Which by the way are not because they are worn out,we are wanting to have a complete modern fleet of busses. And just so you know the RTS aren't being scrapped,we actually have buyers such as CTA and NYTA that are purchasing the busses for their fleets.and our entire massive inventory of parts for them. We are larger than pretty much most of the municipal bus services around the country,and we on average on a daily basis have 10-12 busses out of the fleet down for service. And the reason is for routine maintenance ( i.e oil change,tire replacement,transmission service). And a majority of those busses are returned to service before 5pm same day.

And to correct Monorail Red,sorry you are mis informed our entire fleet including the RTS busses all run on Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel, not biodiesel made from the the oil from all across property. We don't have anything including the ferry boats that run on biodiesel. Wanted to add all the new ones also have a seperate tank for/and use DEF

Great info. Excellent read.

 

[niteobsrvr]

I have to disagree with Goofntnk on one point. While busses do rotate in and out of service on a daily basis, the number of busses not in service on any given day is typically much more than 12. In the industry, it is not uncommon to have as much as 5 to 10 percent of a fleet out on a given day. It is necessary in order to complete both major and minor repairs.

 

[JustInTime]

Been here for 4 days and bus systems have been great. Hardly had to wait for the next one to come. It's been better that past years.

 

[Monorail_Red]

And to correct Monorail Red,sorry you are mis informed our entire fleet including the RTS busses all run on Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel, not biodiesel made from the the oil from all across property. We don't have anything including the ferry boats that run on biodiesel. Wanted to add all the new ones also have a seperate tank for/and use DEF

My apologies, now I'm gonna go find the person who told me all about how WDW uses biodiesel :fork:

I am not familiar with the DEF abbreviation. What does that stand for?

EDIT: DEF stands for Diesel Exhaust Fluid, a technology to minimize NOx emissions from diesel combustion engines.

DEF is a really cool technology, I don't know the proper terminology...but in the nutshell when the exhaust temp gets to a certain point, the DEF kicks in to burn off those pollutants produces at said temperature.

Monorail_Red

 

[puntagordabob]

Ok first off I am NO fan of riding busses at WDW or anywhere else for that matter! ....Better than walking of course! But still Not a Fan!

That being Said.... incidents happen eveywhere..... IMHO WDW does a super job with their busses....

 

[goofntink]

I have to disagree with Goofntnk on one point. While busses do rotate in and out of service on a daily basis, the number of busses not in service on any given day is typically much more than 12. In the industry, it is not uncommon to have as much as 5 to 10 percent of a fleet out on a given day. It is necessary in order to complete both major and minor repairs.

Sorry to say but it's true. Each "Hub" (MK,EC,DHS,AK,DTD)is allocated 67 busses each day = 335 busses. Then you have the cast shuttles. MK BUS Cast=1,MK Westclock to Tunnel = 4,MK Pluto=2,MK Parade=2,EC Cast West-East=3,AK Cast=2. Then you have the WWOS busses=4 (2 WWOS-ASR,2 WWOS-POP/CBR. Then you have several resort internal guest shuttles and Blizzard Beach busses( ASR & CS-BB)=6. Than we normally have 8-10 @ FIW that are on the "Ready Line" in case we have one breakdown and going to VMS and 1-2 at each hub during the day. Total busses currently in the fleet = 391. You do the math!!

We on a regular basis have visits from Mass Transit companies from around the country and worldwide who come to WDW to see how we run our transportation operations. Several have even modeled their operations based off of our system.

 

[lbrad]

I think disney busses are AWESOME ... ususally

 

[Tom]

Sorry to say but it's true. Each "Hub" (MK,EC,DHS,AK,DTD)is allocated 67 busses each day = 335 busses. Then you have the cast shuttles. MK BUS Cast=1,MK Westclock to Tunnel = 4,MK Pluto=2,MK Parade=2,EC Cast West-East=3,AK Cast=2. Then you have the WWOS busses=4 (2 WWOS-ASR,2 WWOS-POP/CBR. Then you have several resort internal guest shuttles and Blizzard Beach busses( ASR & CS-BB)=6. Than we normally have 8-10 @ FIW that are on the "Ready Line" in case we have one breakdown and going to VMS and 1-2 at each hub during the day. Total busses currently in the fleet = 391. You do the math!!

We on a regular basis have visits from Mass Transit companies from around the country and worldwide who come to WDW to see how we run our transportation operations. Several have even modeled their operations based off of our system.

Thank you for the explanation. My questions are then:

1) How do they currently track the demand at each stop, especially during park exit? Everyone here has been in the situation where 3 buses have come for another resort, while 0 have come for "my" resort in the same given time frame. At park closing, I still see the "guy in the white van" where all the buses come in, giving them instructions. Why can't the MiM system or radios handle this? Can you explain this?

2) It seems to me that if WDW threw out a few "short buses" that staged throughout property, they could be dispatched immediately to a park or resort when another driver calls to indicate that a wheelchair or ECV is waiting. If those guests could have the opportunity to ride their own bus, not only would it speed up the rest of the fleet and keep more buses on schedule, but it would also save that poor family a lot of embarrassment, since they're always getting the evil eye from every other guest during the entire inefficient procedure. Plus, the disabled guests would benefit from a tiny bit of VIP treatment (their own bus) in an otherwise handicap-negative world.

2) How much is being done via the MagicInMotion system now? I still occasionally see drivers punching info into their computers, or getting on the radio. MiM should have the ability to know when a bus is done loading at a resort by tracking it's path out to the main road - and automatically change the marquee and computer screen accordingly. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. If the computers were tracking dispatch times from each and every stop, it would be able to REALLY send a new bus every 20 minutes. And by adding cameras or live spotters at each depot, the demand could be sent to the computer via a data entry device, and a bus could be added to the dispatch queue for that depot.

There's so much potential for the Disney bus system to be an extremely efficient machine, but the assets aren't being fully utilized. Here in Indy, if a sign at a bus stop says a bus will be by at 7:02, 7:13 and 7:27 - there will be a bus at those EXACT times, every time. And if there are more people waiting than will fit on the #12, driver radios in and they dispatch an intermediate bus to pick up the rest.

I long for the day when Disney's bus system rivals that of major metropolitan systems. It truly can be a magical way to travel around WDW, but we're not quite there.

 

[stuart]

Thank you for the explanation. My questions are then:

1) How do they currently track the demand at each stop, especially during park exit? Everyone here has been in the situation where 3 buses have come for another resort, while 0 have come for "my" resort in the same given time frame. At park closing, I still see the "guy in the white van" where all the buses come in, giving them instructions. Why can't the MiM system or radios handle this? Can you explain this?

2) It seems to me that if WDW threw out a few "short buses" that staged throughout property, they could be dispatched immediately to a park or resort when another driver calls to indicate that a wheelchair or ECV is waiting. If those guests could have the opportunity to ride their own bus, not only would it speed up the rest of the fleet and keep more buses on schedule, but it would also save that poor family a lot of embarrassment, since they're always getting the evil eye from every other guest during the entire inefficient procedure. Plus, the disabled guests would benefit from a tiny bit of VIP treatment (their own bus) in an otherwise handicap-negative world.

2) How much is being done via the MagicInMotion system now? I still occasionally see drivers punching info into their computers, or getting on the radio. MiM should have the ability to know when a bus is done loading at a resort by tracking it's path out to the main road - and automatically change the marquee and computer screen accordingly. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. If the computers were tracking dispatch times from each and every stop, it would be able to REALLY send a new bus every 20 minutes. And by adding cameras or live spotters at each depot, the demand could be sent to the computer via a data entry device, and a bus could be added to the dispatch queue for that depot.

At park closing you'll see dispatchers around the stops helping dispatch buses and keep an eye on crowds and then radio into the white van the length of queue, number of wheelchairs etc. You'll see as well that a resort further away from the park may get a few buses to clear a load and then your resort which is nearer will get a few. Another factor i always think, though it may not be true, is the type of bus in the queue outside the park makes a difference, as some of the larger resorts will get the nova/gillig buses as they should have a higher capacity due to the wider aisle in the middle.

The priority-pickup for wheelchair guests isnt that great an idea. If that was the case then you would have a number of buses and drivers who are going to be largely redundant most of the day. If a bus is at a resort and there is a guest waiting in a wheelchair, then normally the next bus to the park is on its way to the resort already. By the time it gets there, it would be the same probably as one of these mini-buses. You talk about evil looks - can you imagine the looks they would get if they got a private shuttle? The quoted times and system is designed with additional set-down time for wheelchairs anyway.

 

[Victor Kelly]

every bus we were on last year was a handicapped capable bus that actually had the right side lower to pick up handicapped guests. Disney is getting way better handling those people that need the better access.

 

[niteobsrvr]

Sorry to say but it's true. Each "Hub" (MK,EC,DHS,AK,DTD)is allocated 67 busses each day = 335 busses. Then you have the cast shuttles. MK BUS Cast=1,MK Westclock to Tunnel = 4,MK Pluto=2,MK Parade=2,EC Cast West-East=3,AK Cast=2. Then you have the WWOS busses=4 (2 WWOS-ASR,2 WWOS-POP/CBR. Then you have several resort internal guest shuttles and Blizzard Beach busses( ASR & CS-BB)=6. Than we normally have 8-10 @ FIW that are on the "Ready Line" in case we have one breakdown and going to VMS and 1-2 at each hub during the day. Total busses currently in the fleet = 391. You do the math!!

We on a regular basis have visits from Mass Transit companies from around the country and worldwide who come to WDW to see how we run our transportation operations. Several have even modeled their operations based off of our system.

So each park, regardless of total esitmated attendance for the day, is allocated the same number of busses? I think you should spend a little bit of time talking with a GSM or better yet, just go stright to the VP of Transportation to ask them if this is the case.

 

[unkadug]

So each park, regardless of total esitmated attendance for the day, is allocated the same number of busses? I think you should spend a little bit of time talking with a GSM or better yet, just go stright to the VP of Transportation to ask them if this is the case.

so just because Epcot isn't getting as many people on Tuesday as the MK, you are going to pull the bus from POP to Epcot? That makes no sense either!

(just a hypothetical situation....I'm NOT putting words in your mouth...just expanding on your points)

 

[Communicore]

I now have a newfound appreciation for the much-maligned motor coach. It's cool when pulling into the MK bus stop that they play a fanfare which hypes up the crowd. Anyway this weekend I was at SSR and had to endure their myriad of bus stops and the motor coach was jerky and it was as if the driver steps on the gas, then rapidly applies on the brakes. I thought it was just when inside SSR, when we were out on the main road it was doing it as well! I was standing and it did that whole motion all the way to MK and for the most part the crowd seemed ticked, and when it was time to disembark the driver thanked everyone for their patience, but I heard sarcastic "yea, right's" from a few people....and one even slapped the side of the motor coach in frustration. I'm like "Calm down, it got you to where you needed to be!" but I guess as we know there's no pleasing everyone.

 

[niteobsrvr]

so just because Epcot isn't getting as many people on Tuesday as the MK, you are going to pull the bus from POP to Epcot? That makes no sense either!

(just a hypothetical situation....I'm NOT putting words in your mouth...just expanding on your points)

Actually yes, given the flexible dispatching system, it is quite possible to do that and no one would even be aware of the difference.