Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

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Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Anyone who believes that parents should have a say in what their children should be learning should refrain from putting their kids in public schools. Homeschool them or put them in private schools. Because to come into these public schools and try to change and dictate the curriculum to suit your personal wants for your kid(s) is insane to me.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
I just think this is a change whose time has come, and there's no going back at this point. In a way it's surprising that schools haven't already gone to full transparency - with parent input - on lesson plans. This generation is very different than the ones before. Fewer and people are having fewer and fewer children, and so the shrinking number of children who are born are more highly protected and invested in than ever before. There is more and more pressure on parents to help their children succeed in the crucible of meritocracy as working class jobs disappear, so academics and what kids learn at school is more obsessed over. And the old days where schools existed within communities where everyone shared more or less the same values and probably knew all the teachers long before their kids were in school are gone. Today, ideologically diverse groups of people who are pretty much strangers to each other end up sharing a school district.

Summary - I think the logical result of this will be that parents will be demanding increased transparency and input, before they hand their child's mind off to strangers.
There is already a great deal of transparency. At some point, "transparency" becomes so intrusive, the demands on already overtaxed teachers so extreme, that public education becomes impracticable. State legislatures are demanding publicly accessible cameras in every classroom, detailed daily lesson plans online that allow parents to opt out of each individual element on an ala carte basis, and that parents be allowed to sue for anything they dislike. Some calls for transparency, such as yours, are in good faith. But many are intended to undermine public education in America. At some point, if parents want full, absolute, individual control, the choice is homeschooling.
 

Casper Gutman

Well-Known Member
Anyone who believes that parents should have a say in what their children should be learning should refrain from putting their kids in public schools. Homeschool them or put them in private schools. Because to come into these public schools and try to change and dictate the curriculum to suit your personal wants for your kid(s) is insane to me.
Parents SHOULD have a say. The problem comes, as I said, when calls for transparency are intended to make teaching impossible, or when a very loud, aggressive minority overwhelms the wishes of a more silent but much more numerous majority.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The funny part about this thread at this point is the suggestion there Florida spends this much time putting any thought into curriculum. Their schools are notoriously bad for a reason. I doubt wasting resources on this will reverse that trend at all.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Parents SHOULD have a say. The problem comes, as I said, when calls for transparency are intended to make teaching impossible, or when a very loud, aggressive minority overwhelms the wishes of a more silent but much more numerous majority.
For sure. I’m not saying that parents shouldn’t care what their kids are learning about, because they should. But it’s the entitlement that I don’t like, and yes, the loudmouth Karens and Kevins that come in and try to tell educators what to do. At that point, as a parent, do what you need to do and educate your kids yourself or maybe put them in private schools.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
How is the curriculum having to be approved on an annual basis at an open board meeting and that adopted curriculum and associated instructional materials being posted online an opaque process?
I didn’t say there was zero transparency. I said I think there will be calls for more. For those who argue that this is too much transparency - that’s a subjective opinion, so I certainly understand that the threshold for what’s reasonable will be different for different people. I just think that when you have hyper concerned parents, instituting a system where lesson plans just go up online is going to be the simplest and fairest way to dispel parent fears (I do hate to see teachers stretched even thinner with yet another work demand, but I think there are many other ways teacher workload could be reduced, and should be. That’s a separate topic though.)
 

Disney4Lyfe

Well-Known Member
Anyone who believes that parents should have a say in what their children should be learning should refrain from putting their kids in public schools. Homeschool them or put them in private schools. Because to come into these public schools and try to change and dictate the curriculum to suit your personal wants for your kid(s) is insane to me.
Guys. THIS is why this bill exists.
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
For sure. I’m not saying that parents shouldn’t care what their kids are learning about, because they should. But it’s the entitlement that I don’t like, and yes, the loudmouth Karens and Kevins that come in and try to tell educators what to do. At that point, as a parent, do what you need to do and educate your kids yourself or maybe put them in private schools.
Question - if a parent read Wrightslaw and came into an IEP ready to self advocate, would you refer to them as “loudmouth Karen and Kevins” and “entitled”?

Just curious. Interestingly, I suspect IEP processes have hastened the idea of parents having a big say in education, because parents have always been a full fledged member of the team with veto power there.
 

Disney4Lyfe

Well-Known Member
Question - if a parent read Wrightslaw and came into an IEP ready to self advocate, would you refer to them as “loudmouth Karen and Kevins” and “entitled”?

Just curious. Interestingly, I suspect IEP processes have hastened the idea of parents having a big say in education, because parents have always been a full fledged member of the team with veto power there.
What made parents get more involved in schools is the fact that their kids were locked out of them for months/years. Now they are involved, they are seeing a lot of what is happening here.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Question - if a parent read Wrightslaw and came into an IEP ready to self advocate, would you refer to them as “loudmouth Karen and Kevins” and “entitled”?

Just curious. Interestingly, I suspect IEP processes have hastened the idea of parents having a big say in education, because parents have always been a full fledged member of the team with veto power there.
That’s a completely different situation. I’m not referring to kids with IEPs. I’m referring to parents who want to dictate what their children should learn in their classes.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I didn’t say there was zero transparency. I said I think there will be calls for more. For those who argue that this is too much transparency - that’s a subjective opinion, so I certainly understand that the threshold for what’s reasonable will be different for different people. I just think that when you have hyper concerned parents, instituting a system where lesson plans just go up online is going to be the simplest and fairest way to dispel parent fears (I do hate to see teachers stretched even thinner with yet another work demand, but I think there are many other ways teacher workload could be reduced, and should be. That’s a separate topic though.)
What are you even talking about? The curriculum and instructional materials were already required to be online. This bill did not add that. It doesn’t add transparency. Parents could already participate in the approval process and see the materials.
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
Again, no one seems to want to address the below issue. It has been brought up repeatedly, and glossed over every time. If you think what this law does is good/necessary/not bad, then please address this, the words and stated intent of the author(s) of the bill. If the arguments being made in favor of this bill were the genuine motivation behind the bill, the amendments that helped make the bill specific with its language in accomplishing the goals of those stated in this thread should have been accepted, but instead were shot down as "gutting" the bill. Why would that be?

The intent according to the authors is to stop the spread of gayness. Why will nobody address those words? Why is that somehow irrelevant? Why will nobody provide some sort of rational explanation for how the stated intent was to create one thing but somehow something completely different was created?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I’d advise you to look into NJs newest state curriculum. Then tell me this again with a straight face.

So then the voters have something to squeeze their governor about. That’s how it works… and has worked for decades. That’s how accountability works.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
What made parents get more involved in schools is the fact that their kids were locked out of them for months/years. Now they are involved, they are seeing a lot of what is happening here.

No, they had mouthpieces telling them that as parents they knew better than professionals and that THEY should be the ones to decide things.

How do you make an under appreciated education system even worse? You let the lay and ignorant butt their nose into every decision haphazardly.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Parents SHOULD have a say.

Not on a per child, per classroom basis. We aren’t talking IEPs here… we are talking about individual parents trying to be the arbitrator of what education should be… nearly on a whim.

Imagine how ignorance persists if a parent prevents a child from growing by not allowing that child to be exposed to what a greater good has vetted?
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Again, no one seems to want to address the below issue. It has been brought up repeatedly, and glossed over every time. If you think what this law does is good/necessary/not bad, then please address this, the words and stated intent of the author(s) of the bill. If the arguments being made in favor of this bill were the genuine motivation behind the bill, the amendments that helped make the bill specific with its language in accomplishing the goals of those stated in this thread should have been accepted, but instead were shot down as "gutting" the bill. Why would that be?
I’d just love to be provided with another example of someone writing a bill with one intent and then somehow getting something so completely different that doesn’t do as they intended. It’s just such a bizarre scenario. Even if you do think the text seems neutral, why support someone with such open intentions who isn’t able to properly craft legislation?
 

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
What made parents get more involved in schools is the fact that their kids were locked out of them for months/years. Now they are involved, they are seeing a lot of what is happening here.
I think that’s a big factor too… I think mindsets about education are very different in this generation of parents for a number of reasons. I think parents in this cohort see themselves as members of a team that includes them, while previous generations’ conception of education was more based on hierarchies - the teacher is the boss, and families try not to tick him or her off. Pros and cons to both mindsets, no doubt.
 
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