Bob Chapek's response to Florida's 'Don't Say Gay' bill

[Club Cooloholic]

Can you point to what in the actual bill you disagree with? I don't care at all what the writer said, that is irrelevant to what is in the law itself.

I would say she has a problem with the bill's vagueness. What is not said on a bill can be as important as what is in it. A well written law should be viewed with how it holds up to extreme interpretations because someone will test it, and the more vague it is the easier to abuse the law or mold it to ones end goals. You have heard what the people who wrote it think LGBT, you have heard what Desantis thinks of anyone who opposes it(groomers????).
Here is one for you, if a child draws a picture of their family and they happen to be two dad's and no mommy for art class, can the teacher hang it up with rest of the class? Or will teachers be forced to avoid that because it could upset a child of a parent who goes to the art show and now is in their right to take legal action?

 

[Lilofan]

Now K-3 is about sexual orientation not abc's, nap time and chocolate milk? Wow, we have truly progressed as a society.

Back in my day there was no school breakfast , lunch , AC in school, or vending machines. As a first grader I brought my metal GI Joe lunch box prepped by mom daily . If I was thirsty there was a water fountain at school. There was nap time when the teacher told us to put our heads down on wooden desks.

 

[ParkPeeker]

And then theres sub-paragraph 3 that deals with not putting sexual orientation and gender identity into formal curriculum until after the 3rd Grade. That's the part that seems to have everyone up in arms and sending gay postcards to Tallahassee mail room clerks to chuckle over.

So I'm unclear on what the problem is. Sexual orientation is not currently included in public school curriculum for children younger than 8 years old in Florida. So... this is much ado about a school curriculum that doesn't currently exist, but would be prevented from coming into existence in the future prior to the 4th grade

What the heck does it even mean to have sexual orientation in the formal curriculum though? Even if it’s not explicitly taught it’s impossible for kids not to be exposed to it in the classroom, because heterosexual relationships was never something hidden away from kids. Cartoons, children’s books, lessons, all of it is sprinkled with heterosexuality, whether that be through depictions of parents, romance, childhood crushes, hetero anthropomorphic animals, or whatever, heterosexual orientation is going to come up somehow before the 4th grade. There’s no way to keep sexual orientation out of the curriculum before 4th grade.

So if it can’t be done, why is it in the bill? Maybe because of this weird way that conservatives view non straight sexuality. If it’s not a straight sexual orientation it’s automatically inappropriate and inherently rated R sexual.

Imagine a children’s book that depicts gay parents or a story where the protagonist or a side character has a gay crush or relationship, according to this bill does that count as having sexual orientation in the curriculum? Imagine a children’s book that depicts straight parents or a story where the protagonist or a side character has a straight crush or relationship, according to this bill does that count as having sexual orientation in the curriculum?

let’s not kid ourselves on what this bill means in all its vagueness.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Anyone who is not understanding why it was dubbed the “don’t say gay bill” is purposefully being obtuse.

Of course we know it doesn’t explicitly say “don’t say the word gay”.

“Don’t say gay” is a simplified way of explaining what the part about sexual orientation and gender identity implies and is intended for by the bills authors.

To put it in easy terms for you, “don’t say gay” refers to the bills vagueness and how it will be used by right wing radicals to erase the LGBT community and their families from schools.

No one is grooming, and how dare anyone insinuate such a thing about those against this disgraceful bill.

 

[TP2000]

Anyone who is not understanding why it was dubbed the “don’t say gay bill” is purposefully being obtuse.

It was dubbed the "Don't Say Gay" bill by critics and their enablers in the media because it prohibits formal curriculum for Kindergarten through 3rd Grade from including the topics of sexual orientation or gender identity.

But apparently that's a topic not even included in 2nd grade classrooms, along with Watergate and Trigonometry and Nietsche, or any number of other curriculum options available per Florida state standards in higher grades. So this entire thing is simply an attempt to prevent sexual orientation from migrating down into the curriculum below the 4th grade.

Plus the vast bulk of the 7 page bill that addresses parental rights to access mental health records of their child that are being compiled and kept by teachers and school administrators.

And from 4th Grade onward, sexual orientation and gender identity may not be included in formal curriculum "in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

Which, as a gay man, seems very reasonable to me. Because I think the voters and taxpayers in Florida should determine what is appropriate for their children in their own public schools they pay for.

I would hate for Floridians or Idahoans or Vermonters to decide what is taught in our California schools. Similarly, I would imagine Floridians would hate for Californians to decide what is taught in their Florida schools.

 

[ParkPeeker]

But apparently that's a topic not even included in 2nd grade classrooms, along with Watergate and Trigonometry and Nietsche, or any number of other curriculum options available per Florida state standards in higher grades. So this entire thing is simply an attempt to prevent sexual orientation from migrating down into the curriculum below the 4th grade.

Nope, like I stated in my previous reply to you, sexual orientation and gender identity are ALREADY in the formal curriculum all the way down. (In the form of explicitly straight, and explicitly gender conforming characters/people included in all sorts of books/picture books and lessons and assignments etc)

MEANING that this only refers to prohibiting anything non straight, and non gender conforming in the curriculum.

Which, as a gay man, seems very reasonable to me.

You being gay and agreeing with this doesn’t make any less anti lgbtq+

 

[TP2000]

John Oliver just discussed Disney and the bill during his opening for Last Week Tonight. Alongside talking about Chapek's response from The Shareholders Meeting.

If you have HBO Max, the full episode can be viewed where he discussed it which is usually cut from the official Youtube Channel for the show.

Thank you for the heads up! I must admit I wasn't quite sure who James Oliver was, as I'm not an HBO subscriber.

But I found him and tonight's episode on YouTube. He seemed to fall back on the usual talking points, glossing over this was aimed at 7 year old kids and parents having access to school mental health record keeping. And he then railed and railed against Bob Chapek, lumping him in with that evil Governor in that backward state everyone who is an Official Good Person can instantly make fun of without impunity.

I did laugh at Mr. Oliver's line about Governor DeSantis being "the angriest person ever at a Strawberry Festival"! That was a very good line.

Otherwise, this seems to be a big PR ding for Bob Chapek specifically. Which I don't mind one bit, because I have long thought that Chapek was a complete idiot, a charmless and unlikable man, who was painfully clueless about his own core businesses and industry. So that was kind of fun to watch!

Thanks again for the heads up, my friend!

 

[TP2000]

Nope, like I stated in my previous reply to you, sexual orientation and gender identity are ALREADY in the formal curriculum all the way down. (In the form of explicitly straight, and explicitly gender conforming characters/people included in all sorts of books/picture books and lessons and assignments etc)

Okay, wait, we've had several posters here claim repeatedly that Sexual Orientation is not included in formal curriculum in Kindergarten through 3rd Grade in Florida.

So, which is it? Are they teaching about Sexual Orientation in 2nd grade in Tampa schools, or aren't they?

Which is why I asked earlier tonight if anyone had a document that showed what the actual curriculum is for Florida schools in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grades. I'd be fascinated to see what they're teaching kids about that sort of thing, if any, nowadays.

I think Bill Maher summed it up best this weekend, and I completely agree with him, when he said "Maybe kids that young shouldn't be thinking about sex at all? I mean, it's literally not that you're not allowed to say gay."




And I've long been an admirer of gay activist Frank Bruni, because he's rational. He seems to get it. Especially when Bill Maher made the point that in California the students are given more rights from the school districts and state than the parents are given. And Mr. Bruni admitted flatly "Yeah, that's a political winner."

This Florida bill, as written, seems to be a political winner because it defers to actual parents instead of Twitter mobs.

 

[TrojanUSC]

Okay, wait, we've had several posters here claim repeatedly that Sexual Orientation is not included in formal curriculum in Kindergarten through 3rd Grade in Florida.

So, which is it? Are they teaching about Sexual Orientation in 2nd grade in Tampa schools, or aren't they?

Which is why I asked earlier tonight if anyone had a document that showed what the actual curriculum is for Florida schools in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd grades. I'd be fascinated to see what they're teaching kids about that sort of thing, if any, nowadays.

I think Bill Maher summed it up best this weekend, and I completely agree with him, when he said "Maybe kids that young shouldn't be thinking about sex at all? I mean, it's literally not that you're not allowed to say gay."




And I've long been an admirer of gay activist Frank Bruni, because he's rational. He seems to get it. Especially when Bill Maher made the point that in California the students are given more rights from the school districts and state than the parents do. And Mr. Bruni admitted flatly "Yeah, that's a political winner."

This Florida bill, as written, seems to be a political winner because it defers to parents instead of Twitter.

The Bill Maher piece is clearly coming from a place of ignorance on his end. The law doesn't just prohibit discussions of sex, which most would have been fine with, it prohibits any discussion of sexual orientation, which can come up organically, as been repeatedly explained to you, in any number of ways.

 

[TP2000]

The Bill Maher piece is clearly coming from a place of ignorance on his end. The law doesn't just prohibit discussions of sex, which most would have been fine with, it prohibits any discussion of sexual orientation, which can come up organically, as been repeatedly explained to you, in any number of ways.

No, it doesn't. Have you read the bill? The bill prohibits the inclusion of Sexual Orientation into formal classroom instruction until after the 3rd Grade.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

It doesn't prohibit random and spontaneous discussion of Sexual Orientation in the classroom, any more than the separation of church and state prohibits the random and spontaneous discussion of Islam because the home room mother that month is wearing a headscarve, or how excited little Billy is that this weekend is Passover, or why the teacher has an ash mark on her forehead this particular Wednesday in March.

 

[TrojanUSC]

No, it doesn't. Have you read the bill? The bill prohibits the inclusion of Sexual Orientation into formal classroom instruction until after the 3rd Grade.

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

It doesn't prohibit random and spontaneous discussion of Sexual Orientation in the classroom, any more than the separation of church and state prohibits the random and spontaneous discussion of Islam because the home room mother that month is wearing a headscarve, or how excited little Billy is that this weekend is Passover, or why the teacher has an ash mark on her forehead this particular Wednesday in March.

"prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity"

These things come up organically and the teacher often must address them. There was no reason they could not have narrowed this bill to a more appropriate scope, except that the author of the bill stated he felt like too many kids were "becoming gay."

 

[TP2000]

"prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity"

You conveniently left out the rest of that sentence, found on Lines 21 to 23 on Page 1 of this Florida bill, as many of its other critics also have conveniently left out.

The complete sentence you just quoted is actually...

"...prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels or in a specified manner."

In reality, it's prohibiting that classroom discussion on Sexual Orientation from Kindergarten through Grade 3, and then from Grade 4 onward it's a classroom discussion that is not "in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards." (Lines 99 to 101, Page 4)

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

When you include the full text of the bill, as written, it becomes far more reasonable for a majority of parents. And even for some non-parents, like myself. And again, the full bill is online. We can all read it, if we choose.

As gay activist Frank Bruni just admitted on the Bill Maher program... "Yeah, that's a political winner."

 

[TP2000]

except that the author of the bill stated he felt like too many kids were "becoming gay."

I will say, as a kid that became gay all on my own without any mention of the gays by my 3rd grade teacher Miss Sorensen and with only an occasional double-take at Uncle Arthur on Bewitched, the kids that really are gay are going to be gay all on their own. Usually by Junior High. Definitely by High School.

No clearly written bill, or virtue signaling Tweet, or old as dirt legislator in Tallahassee is going to stop that from happening. It's not 1965. The kids will figure it out. They always do.

I'm cool with waiting until at least the 4th grade before trotting out Drag Queens and Paul Lynde in the center square.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Back in my day there was no school breakfast , lunch , AC in school, or vending machines. As a first grader I brought my metal GI Joe lunch box prepped by mom daily . If I was thirsty there was a water fountain at school. There was nap time when the teacher told us to put our heads down on wooden desks.

That one was sweet…I had the transformers one too.

It was so great back then. And I bet a kid in first grade…who didn’t really “understand” a lot of the things the adults and kids around him said, looks, expressions…was well occupied with a subconscious “nagging”’about something…

And we hated the Russians too!


I don’t want any kind of “curriculum” that addresses a scenario like that. I also don’t want some beatnik neighbor from the panhandle to sue the teacher if their compassion puts them in a situation where they have to juggle it?

There’s a lot of hate buried behind this…making it a delicate tight rope to walk.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You conveniently left out the rest of that sentence, found on Lines 21 to 23 on Page 1 of this Florida bill, as many of its other critics also have conveniently left out.

The complete sentence you just quoted is actually...

"...prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity in certain grade levels or in a specified manner."

In reality, it's prohibiting that classroom discussion on Sexual Orientation from Kindergarten through Grade 3, and then from Grade 4 onward it's a classroom discussion that is not "in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards." (Lines 99 to 101, Page 4)

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF

When you include the full text of the bill, as written, it becomes far more reasonable for a majority of parents. And even for some non-parents, like myself. And again, the full bill is online. We can all read it, if we choose.

As gay activist Frank Bruni just admitted on the Bill Maher program... "Yeah, that's a political winner."

Of course it is. And I heard that clip (it’s on YouTube in the overtime segment) and he also said it’s “solving a non-problem”…which is what one political party tirades that they’re against 24 hours a day. It’s frivolous and “anti-freedom”…which is exactly what the point is. A dog whistle. Context matters.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Good luck to the hundreds stranded at Orlando MCO. Due to weather issues, staff shortages , heavy travel Spring Break volume, a number of guests are stuck in the airport for several days. BTW, its mandatory to wear mask inside OIA.

…life is so hard. How will they survive in those masks?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

"prohibiting classroom discussion about sexual orientation or gender identity"

These things come up organically and the teacher often must address them. There was no reason they could not have narrowed this bill to a more appropriate scope, except that the author of the bill stated he felt like too many kids were "becoming gay."

I saw that line, too. That the bill contains that contradictory line will absolutely be weaponized...it's a purposeful strategy to ensure that the bill can be interpreted more than one way.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I saw that line, too. That the bill contains that contradictory line will absolutely be weaponized...it's a purposeful strategy to ensure that the bill can be interpreted more than one way.

Anytime vague laws are passed it leads to low level draconian vigilantism
.
- Voltaire



(Just kidding…it was me )

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Anytime vague laws are passed it leads to low level draconian vigilantism
.
- Voltaire



(Just kidding…it was me )

Then there's this...

Sen. Jeff Brandes, R-St. Petersburg, argued that his amendment would fix the most contentious portion of House Bill 1557, which would bar schools from teaching lessons on gender identity or sexual orientation in kindergarten through third grade — or in ways that are not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate in other grades. Instead of restricting schools from teaching young kids about sexual orientation and gender identity, Brandes’ amendment would have stopped schools from conducting lessons on “human sexuality or sexual activity.” “If the intent is not to marginalize anyone. Let’s make sure we aren’t,” Brandes said. “Let’s be clear and clearly define and say that conversations about human sexuality or sexual activity that fall outside of state guidelines should not occur. We can do this.”

Sen. Dennis Baxley, R-Ocala, the bill’s sponsor, argued the amendment would “gut” the bill, but he did not elaborate. It was voted down mostly along party lines. Last week, Rep. Carlos Guillermo Smith, D-Orlando, offered a similar amendment to the House bill. It was voted down in that chamber, as well. Smith, one of the few openly gay members of the Legislature, appeared at the Senate committee Monday hoping to testify on Brandes’ amendment, but he was not permitted to speak by committee chairperson Kelli Stargel, R-Lakeland.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article258886088.html

So, according to Baxley himself, merely changing the verbiage from "sexual orientation and gender identity" to "human sexuality or sexual activity" would "gut the bill".

The purpose of this bill is absolutely to marginalize the LGBTQ+ community.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Then there's this...

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article258886088.html

So, according to Baxley himself, merely changing the verbiage from "sexual orientation and gender identity" to "human sexuality or sexual activity" would "gut the bill".

The purpose of this bill is absolutely to marginalize the LGBTQ+ community.

There was never any doubt of this.

Ugh.

This is gonna go over REALLY Badly in Orlando…and guess who runs that town?

But it doesn’t stop there. The US City with the highest LGBQT population per capita in the country?

Frisco, right?
No that would be Jacksonville, Fl. And much of Florida has become an “enclave” due to its privacy and relative lack of social grief (because it was gators before 1950…so no long-standing bias) during the last 50 years.

Now it’s a culture war…and that never goes well. The backwoods/riviera driven into the sunlight by the suggestions of two low life individuals.

Disney has a problem…not gonna go away in a week, Bob.