DHS "Black box" interchangeable dark ride coming to Disney's Hollywood Studios?

[Kram Sacul]

Movie Preview: The Ride?

 

[kap91]

How often has Disney updated or dropped in new games for Toy Story Midway Mania?, which is as close to this concept as already exists?

The layout of an attraction should be part of its story. Reusing the same layout means constantly forcing different stories into the same box. Even with trackless vehicles and projects, a projection surface is required and changing the location of that surface means moving walls.

Well the nice thing about a trackless system is that it can have infinite layouts. Especially if the interior walls and sets are designed to be easily repositioned or swapped. Movie sets do it all the time. And if you're not designing for long term durability then it's a really attractive option.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well the nice thing about a trackless system is that it can have infinite layouts. Especially if the interior walls and sets are designed to be easily repositioned or swapped. Movie sets do it all the time. And if you're not designing for long term durability then it's a really attractive option.

Those infinite layouts are still bounded by something physical. Steel stud framing isn’t difficult to install and remove but it is still anchored to the floor. That means you have to remove not just the wall but also an area around it and carefully redo the finish so that it matches the high quality floor finish required of a truly trackless ride system. Gypsum board (drywall) is also not difficult to install but using it for a projection surface requires actually achieving a Level 5 finish (on a scale of 1-5). That’s a lot of intensive labor just going into temporary walls.

Moving a wall is also not something that can just be done as art direction. It will require an architect and engineers to design and approve, pushing the whole attraction through the building permitting process. The wall moves also have to be coordinated with all of the stuff in the ceiling like the HVAC system, fire sprinklers and lighting. It is possible to build walls that are not as tall and avoid some of those systems, but that means more anchors into the floor. Set pieces only add to all of that work. They have to be anchored into that nice floor. If they have any sort of movement or lighting they will need power that is coming from somewhere.

When all is said and done, how much less work is that than a permanent attraction? How is the Studio going to be convinced to keep funding all of that work for subsequent films?

 

[flynnibus]

Anyone here from the east coast remember when King's Dominion tried to be Paramount's movie-based park in the 1990s? They built or re-themed attractions based on such lasting cultural classics as Days of Thunder and an entire area based on Wayne's World. The execution was shoddy and the attractions were almost obsolete by the time they opened.

That's some serious revisionist history going on there...

The shift at KD was due to the change in ownership of the parks. Days of Thunder was fitting in its time and a solid attraction. Wayne's World consisted of a great diner, and a wooden rollercoaster.. and the placemaking was just fine. The coaster was just replaced last year with Twisted Timbers.. a modern wood/steel hybrid.

To suggest such things were chasing 'flash in the pan' is way off base. Regional Amusement parks live and die by the 'whats new this summer' campaign.

The bigger crime at KD was when ownership changed again.. the lame generic theme conversions they did on all the IP based properties.

 

[flynnibus]

Those infinite layouts are still bounded by something physical. Steel stud framing isn’t difficult to install and remove but it is still anchored to the floor. That means you have to remove not just the wall but also an area around it and carefully redo the finish so that it matches the high quality floor finish required of a truly trackless ride system. Gypsum board (drywall) is also not difficult to install but using it for a projection surface requires actually achieving a Level 5 finish (on a scale of 1-5). That’s a lot of intensive labor just going into temporary walls.

So make the walls floating walls hung from gridwork above.. rather than attached at the floor.

 

[kap91]

Those infinite layouts are still bounded by something physical. Steel stud framing isn’t difficult to install and remove but it is still anchored to the floor. That means you have to remove not just the wall but also an area around it and carefully redo the finish so that it matches the high quality floor finish required of a truly trackless ride system. Gypsum board (drywall) is also not difficult to install but using it for a projection surface requires actually achieving a Level 5 finish (on a scale of 1-5). That’s a lot of intensive labor just going into temporary walls.

Moving a wall is also not something that can just be done as art direction. It will require an architect and engineers to design and approve, pushing the whole attraction through the building permitting process. The wall moves also have to be coordinated with all of the stuff in the ceiling like the HVAC system, fire sprinklers and lighting. It is possible to build walls that are not as tall and avoid some of those systems, but that means more anchors into the floor. Set pieces only add to all of that work. They have to be anchored into that nice floor. If they have any sort of movement or lighting they will need power that is coming from somewhere.

When all is said and done, how much less work is that than a permanent attraction? How is the Studio going to be convinced to keep funding all of that work for subsequent films?

Or they develop a way to secure the set pieces without tarnishing the floor (built in anchors on a grid perhaps - yes that doesn't allow completely free design but design always is bounded by some building constraints.) Or develop a version of the trackless ride system that doesn't need a perfectly polished floor. There's already several variants of that out there. Portable sturdy screen installations are used all the time for concerts and theatre. And there shouldn't be a need to reroute HVAC or anything permanent. Think of it like a giant theatre or soundstage where all of the heavy infrastructure is purpose built to be out of the way and then the sets are modular temporary structures - theaters do this all the time, that's what a black box is - I don't see any reason something similar couldn't be worked out if these are intended to be temporary attractions lasting a few months or a year at most.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Take the Black with Aegon Targaryen and Friends CONFIRMED replacing Tower of Terror with The Wall.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So make the walls floating walls hung from gridwork above.. rather than attached at the floor.

Such systems use modular walls which would not provide a seamless surface for projections. There is also the issue of knowing all possible configurations and having them all conform to life safety requirements. Even then, you only have flat walls and no sets.

Or they develop a way to secure the set pieces without tarnishing the floor (built in anchors on a grid perhaps - yes that doesn't allow completely free design but design always is bounded by some building constraints.) Or develop a version of the trackless ride system that doesn't need a perfectly polished floor. There's already several variants of that out there. Portable sturdy screen installations are used all the time for concerts and theatre. And there shouldn't be a need to reroute HVAC or anything permanent. Think of it like a giant theatre or soundstage where all of the heavy infrastructure is purpose built to be out of the way and then the sets are modular temporary structures - theaters do this all the time, that's what a black box is - I don't see any reason something similar couldn't be worked out if these are intended to be temporary attractions lasting a few months or a year at most.

Anchors still have to go into something and cover plates would litter the floor. The perfect finish is also about the actual ride comfort.

You can’t think of it like a theater because stages are allowed to do things not allowed in other spaces, especially assembly spaces pushing a few hundred people through every hour. Also look at the quantity and size of the equipment and spaces that all support that dynamic stage space.

It really seems like this is the sort of thing that Halloween Horror Nights would have introduced if was at all practical.

 

[dothebrdwalk]

I just can't imagine this being so thrilling?! The reason some screen rides are great isn't because you're just sitting in a Trackless vehicle going from screen to screen. There's environment, some thrill/effects, etc. This seems like something you'd see in a mall. Disappointing.

 

[Casper Gutman]

An IP-driven approach to theme parks such as the one Disney has enthusiastically adopted requires a willingness to build agressively. Management has to be willing to spend freely in order to promote the latest property in the parks. They can’t go cheap on a property’s park presence or risk cheapening the franchise. It’s always a risk, because some new IPs may not click with the public.

To see how badly Disney parks are doing at following their own business model, look at Marvel. Endgame blew away every record this weekend. Pop culture has never seen anything like the MCU. And it’s presence in Disney’s worldwide parks amounts to a couple lackluster overlays of existing, unsuitable attractions. Fans excited about the global, unprecedented phenomenon that is Marvel are much, much better off going to Disney’s competitor.

The black-box idea seems like an attempt to promote property after property without having to make a real investment. It’s emblematic of a company that is afraid to commit to its own franchises. And it’s an almost comical extension of the standardization of Disney parks - all Disney parks have a vague IP-centered theme, rides are copied to park after park, and now even the interior of the ridespace is generic, little more then a warehouse. If an IP deserves a place in a Disney park, it deserves a well-thought-out, custom-designed experience.

 

[matt9112]

I hope they aren't going the Universal route with screens. I still want to be able to see real objects like animatronics and props while on a ride.

I realize it is probably a lot cheaper to do, but I don't find it as memorable an experience. And the amount of projection rides and shows at Disney would officially be getting out of hand.

its the future.....everyones mad that uni has been building screens but its an industry trend point blank. its more flexible and cost effective.

 

[Casper Gutman]

its the future.....everyones mad that uni has been building screens but its an industry trend point blank. its more flexible and cost effective.

And Uni’s big new ride this year is not screen-dependent.

 

[matt9112]

And Uni’s big new ride this year is not screen-dependent.

nor will jurrasic be. granted count me in the camo that finds both HP attractions amazing. (but i also love the IP) are they perfect sure arent but there pretty solid. i ranked FJ higher than anything disney had until FOP. screens can be done well but f&f and kong were really tasteless cheapness. shame because i love the que of both but yeah whoever thought that ride could be well a ride is....not smart.

 

[flynnibus]

Such systems use modular walls which would not provide a seamless surface for projections. There is also the issue of knowing all possible configurations and having them all conform to life safety requirements. Even then, you only have flat walls and no sets.

No. The only thing shared with modular walls is the idea that it’s hung.

Items are simply supported from above, rather than by sitting on the floor. Use curtain edges if you want and it doesn’t end touch the floor. Alternatively They can touch the floor with feet. Nothing limits your shapes or what you put in the space. Put a huge set sitting on the floor, but make it’s hard attach points be from above or the side rather than to the floor.

The more you rely on projection mapping... the less bulky these items need to be as well.

The trade off is you need a lot more overhead strength and beams. But if that’s the purpose of the building... you can justify it

 

[TJJohn12]

The “black box” term comes from the appearance of the attraction when everything is turned off. It is essentially a giant warehouse with projection and screen surfaces, a blank canvas.

I love how the site-that-must-not-be-named has no real industry understanding. A black box is a flexible theatre space, adaptable to the show being produced at that moment. It’s not referring to this specific space, but to a type of space that anyone with a modicum of entertainment industry experience would immediately understand. Imagineering is using a widely understood theatre term - as they almost always are. And ‘Blew-it Today’ is clueless.

 

[marni1971]

Dark ride may be a stretch.

black box is a flexible theatre space

Indeed. That’s the usual definition of it.

 

[Lintemuthstudios]

Dark ride may be a stretch.

Indeed. That’s the usual definition of it.

So it's a thing, but it's not what they're saying it is?

 

[flyerjab]

And Uni’s big new ride this year is not screen-dependent.

For once.

 

[bclane]

Implement this with their pendulum roller coaster and they could have a winning concept. One day your swinging with Tarzan, the next day your soaring with Aladdin. Next week we’re flying with Wall-E. Or just randomize it. I think this could be really fun as long as this is not the blueprint going forward.

 

[Bostb71]

IIRC, this sound similar to a rumor from 20 years ago when I worked at the studios. There was talk of replacing GMR with a screen based attraction - I think they referred to the technology as "Cave" and basically you were surrounded by screens in every direction. I don't know if this is part of that development or the project morphed into MMRR.