News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

larryz

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
With the arrival of GotG, Epcot could easily be renamed Disney's Galactic Showcase without too much of a stretch.
 
JWG

JWG

Well-Known Member
Bocabear said:
that would be an enormous stretch....that is like saying that with the arrival of Anna and Elsa they could just rename EPCOT Disney's Frozenland... One attraction does't make an entire theme park....
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Well, two attractions with Mission Space. But point taken.
 
Epcot82Guy

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
That does feel like a bit of a stretch. What feels more likely is that you disband Future World. We then have World Showcase (as is), Natural World (Land and Seas), an "Outer Space Worlds" (M:S - real space, Guardians and something new for WoL). Then, Imagination and Test Track either get pulled into the spine as the more traditional Epcot innovations or anchor their own areas (Imagination World and Transportation World). Just personal opinion, but that feels more like the direction if they are trying to keep any themes at all beyond hodgepodge.
 
RoysCabin

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
Casper Gutman said:
This is very, very well said. Applause.

FW is such a problem because it was tied to a very specific ideology that dominated American culture for several decades in the middle of the 20th century and was already dying out by the time EPCOT opened. It positioned science of a particular sort as an unmitigated good - not the abstract science practiced by professors in universities or government boffins, but the proprietary corporate science practiced at major conglomerates like GE and embodied in the consumer goods they produced - those "Nestle scientists" that often get a laugh today. It was a belief that America should lead the world, corporations should lead America, and consumption was a key element of happiness. It motivated all of the 20th century American Worlds Fairs from which FW took its inspiration, and it fell apart in the 60s and 70s. It was key to the way Walt Disney viewed the world.

Now, whether you or I buys that ideology isn't the point. Most of us like the park it created. But that way of thinking doesn't animate the zeitgeist the way it once did and Disney execs aren't going to suddenly reverse course and return EPCOT to the state it was in when it was a product of that view. But Disney execs also don't want to pick a new ideology either. And while every work of art (and theme parks are works of art) embodies certain ideological positions, something like FW embodies them more nakedly and with more immediacy than something like, say, Tommorrowland. To make a coherent version of FW you need a definition of "progress" and how best to achieve it and a view on the present world situation and which elements to celebrate. You also need to choose which science to present and which to omit. And that's all very controversial - there's no way the current exec team or any in the conceivable future will want to touch that. Better to stick in comic book properties.
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Indeed; I was recently watching a long form film review on the MovieBob YouTube channel, in which he analyzed why he felt the animated Transformers movie from 1986 was good in spite of the pretty cynical creative atmosphere that gave rise to the overall franchise and many of the toy/cartoon/etc. lines of the 1980s, how it really boiled down to that a work of art can be produced through cynical means or hold a certain meaning to its creator, but once its out among the viewing public it often takes on a life of its own, giving it a new set of dimensions that might not have been intended in the original creative process that birthed it (I'm also reading Vinyl Leaves, which dives pretty deeply into the 1980s corporate mindset that drove a lot of aspects of original EPCOT Center and the issues that lie therein).

A revitalized EPCOT Center might try drawing from that: the corporate/social zeitgeist that birthed Future World certainly doesn't exist anymore, at least not nearly in the form it was in during the hey day of the US/Canada-based Worlds Fairs and the lead up to the park's creation, but millions upon millions of visitors still took something out of the EPCOT experience, perhaps something that went beyond or even completely sidestepped the old corporate mantras, sloganeering, and odes to the "inevitability" of a near future in outer space. There are tons of minds at Disney that could undoubtedly seek to harness the inspiration the park engendered and create attractions that speak less to the sponsorship aims and more to a sense of wonder about science, technology, the natural world, imagination, etc.

But, as you say, we live in a risk adverse time when it comes to creativity on the part of most large scale corporate interests (unless the risks are being taken using other people's money in what amounts to a large scale casino that passes nearly nothing to consumers). If I recall correctly, Iger himself pointed out recently that he's not concerned about the "blockbuster bubble" bursting over Hollywood for Disney, because he feels his studios have figured out how to take the "risk" out of making a big budget picture...and while I certainly think many of Disney's recent cinematic offerings have their merits, and some earnestly have tried to do new and interesting things, it's getting harder and harder not to notice the seams, not to notice the patterns in most of them that seem tailor made to guarantee better box office returns instead of trying something innovative that could blow up in their face, but could also create something truly special.

And I suppose that applies to park management, as well.
 
HauntedPirate

HauntedPirate

Park nostalgist
Premium Member
RoysCabin said:
Indeed; I was recently watching a long form film review on the MovieBob YouTube channel, in which he analyzed why he felt the animated Transformers movie from 1986 was good in spite of the pretty cynical creative atmosphere that gave rise to the overall franchise and many of the toy/cartoon/etc. lines of the 1980s, how it really boiled down to that a work of art can be produced through cynical means or hold a certain meaning to its creator, but once its out among the viewing public it often takes on a life of its own, giving it a new set of dimensions that might not have been intended in the original creative process that birthed it (I'm also reading Vinyl Leaves, which dives pretty deeply into the 1980s corporate mindset that drove a lot of aspects of original EPCOT Center and the issues that lie therein).

A revitalized EPCOT Center might try drawing from that: the corporate/social zeitgeist that birthed Future World certainly doesn't exist anymore, at least not nearly in the form it was in during the hey day of the US/Canada-based Worlds Fairs and the lead up to the park's creation, but millions upon millions of visitors still took something out of the EPCOT experience, perhaps something that went beyond or even completely sidestepped the old corporate mantras, sloganeering, and odes to the "inevitability" of a near future in outer space. There are tons of minds at Disney that could undoubtedly seek to harness the inspiration the park engendered and create attractions that speak less to the sponsorship aims and more to a sense of wonder about science, technology, the natural world, imagination, etc.

But, as you say, we live in a risk adverse time when it comes to creativity on the part of most large scale corporate interests (unless the risks are being taken using other people's money in what amounts to a large scale casino that passes nearly nothing to consumers). If I recall correctly, Iger himself pointed out recently that he's not concerned about the "blockbuster bubble" bursting over Hollywood for Disney, because he feels his studios have figured out how to take the "risk" out of making a big budget picture...and while I certainly think many of Disney's recent cinematic offerings have their merits, and some earnestly have tried to do new and interesting things, it's getting harder and harder not to notice the seams, not to notice the patterns in most of them that seem tailor made to guarantee better box office returns instead of trying something innovative that could blow up in their face, but could also create something truly special.

And I suppose that applies to park management, as well.
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I think the "de-risk" line of thought is something they have and will continue to apply to the theme parks as well. Proven movie IP > new, original ideas. Whether it ultimately benefits or is a detriment to said theme parks remains to be seen.

BTW - I loved the original animated Transformers movie, it's a classic that stands the test of time despite its flaws. :D
 
NelsonRD

NelsonRD

Well-Known Member
I genuinely ask - why is there such an attachment to the original EPCOT? I was a kid of the 80's and generally remember, and enjoyed EPCOT, but I also have clear vivid memories of how my parents viewed it as 'boring', 'repetitive', and 'didn't know what it was'. In fact, many people outside this forum had similar opinions of EPCOT. I understand the pain of how under appreciated EPCOT was, but in reality, what would be the motivation to return to the original concept?
 
Hatbox Ghostbuster

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
NelsonRD said:
I genuinely ask - why is there such an attachment to the original EPCOT? I was a kid of the 80's and generally remember, and enjoyed EPCOT, but I also have clear vivid memories of how my parents viewed it as 'boring', 'repetitive', and 'didn't know what it was'. In fact, many people outside this forum had similar opinions of EPCOT. I understand the pain of how under appreciated EPCOT was, but in reality, what would be the motivation to return to the original concept?
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Just speaking personally, I found the original Epcot inspiring. Nothing was cookie cutter. Nothing was simply a rehash of a movie with familiar characters. It invited you as the guest to impart your own stories into the attractions. When I rode Horizons, I imagined what my life would be like on Brava Centauri. When I explored the Living Seas, I imagined what it would be like to swim with dolphins or really be an undersea explorer. In Spaceship Earth, I actually thought about the future of communication. Etc. Etc. Etc. Very little was dumbed-down. Not to mention World Showcase giving me a glimpse of life in other cultures that I could one day grow up and hope to explore on my own.

Simply put, the park and its attractions stayed with you. They didn't just whip and thrill you around for 3 minutes and then usher you into the next closest queue line. It caused you (well, me at least) to slow down and really soak in all that was being offered me. The attention to detail was staggering as well as the music being a perfect compliment (I have most of the pavilion soundtracks and you BET I still listen to them on the regular).

It asked something of its audience. Not that you simply just have fun, but that you open your mind slightly to perhaps even learn something along the way.
 
Hatbox Ghostbuster

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
I don't think there is.

Personally speaking it would be a return to unique, non synergy driven attractions that had scale, drama and awe using cutting edge technology, ride systems and effects. All set in a cohesive, one of a kind environment.
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Agreed. I don't think Epcot Center folks want the return of actual, dated 80's Epcot Center, but exactly more of a "return to form" just like you described. This is a common misconception.
 
GCTales

GCTales

Well-Known Member
NelsonRD said:
I genuinely ask - why is there such an attachment to the original EPCOT? I was a kid of the 80's and generally remember, and enjoyed EPCOT, but I also have clear vivid memories of how my parents viewed it as 'boring', 'repetitive', and 'didn't know what it was'. In fact, many people outside this forum had similar opinions of EPCOT. I understand the pain of how under appreciated EPCOT was, but in reality, what would be the motivation to return to the original concept?
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For me, it is simple.

EPCOT was the only park I had been to as a kid (1986) as my father thought it was the only one worth seeing... He thought magic kingdom was for little kids and saw no value in it.

EPCOT inspired me in a way no other park did and reached into my youthful imagination and planted ideas that helped form the direction my life would take. Because of the Living Seas and Sea Base Alpha and seeing the diver in the tank and the concept of working /living under water in the ocean, I wanted and eventually learned to scuba dive. From there, when I was involved in Boy Scouts, I became involved with a group that went diving in the Florida Keys - where I learned about dive rescue (educational, not experiencing) and diving and hyperbaric medicine. In my professional life, I became involved in clinical hyperbaric medicine and equipment design, manufacture, installation and the training of people on the physics and physiology of diving and Hyperbarics.

My brother, 3 yes younger than me credits his experience that day at EPCOT with wanting to become an engineer and be involved in the future design of stuff he saw at Epcot - wither spaceship earth, horizons, or any of the other rides. He is now an electrical engineer and designs power and electrical layouts for research labs for major pharmaceutical companies.

At the time, neither of us thought about international travel or ever going outside the country (except to maybe Mexico or Canada), but my father had traveled extensively on business for his company and felt world showcase was a good and easy way for us to get the understanding that not all countries are like America and to appreciate and respect other cultures and that what makes us different can be A Good Thing- especially as America is a melting pot of many cultures.

When my niece went for the first time and saw rafiki's planet watch and the vets caring for the animals, and one of the staff (who a CM told she was interesting in being a vet) took time to come out and talk to her about what being a vet is like for her (the CM), it was the deciding factor. My niece became and remains 100% certain she wants to become a veterinarian herself.

The Land also gave us an appreciation of how special this planet is and our responsibility as its stewards to take care of it (a concept further ingrained in us in Scouting).

That is why I would rather see the edutainment version of EPCOT than another IP driven thrill ride park with no coalescing theme to hold it together. I hope that when my younger kids visit EPCOT next year, they can still be inspired...
 
Epcot82Guy

Epcot82Guy

Well-Known Member
Agreed as well. It was two main things: (a) inspiration, as others have mentioned, and (b) uniqueness. It was truly a unique, one-of-a-kind experience - and one that we could all share together (theoretically).

There also was a greater level of non-linear storytelling for me. Those same attractions at MK (original Pirates, Mansion, BTMRR, Space Mtn., CoP, TTA, etc.) were what I loved across Walt Disney World. It wasn't a synopsis of a film or a blatant storyline (like PPF, SWSA, etc.) It sort of forced you to come up with the story happening - as if you were a bystander looking in. It felt greater than me, and I really loved that aspect.

For reference, it's the feeling I still see in areas like the Asia, Africa and Pandora sections of DAK. And, they've shown they can update these attractions and keep them relevant with things like Mansion, Space Mtn. (albeit with a needed track refurb), etc.
 

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