Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
I've not heard of it. And I've heard a lot
Too bad. It sounds like a cool idea.
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News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?
- Thread starter djkidkaz
- Start date
Too bad. It sounds like a cool idea.
Aries1975
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your insight. But I am probably not the only one who finds this response disconcerting.
EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, I've come to expect much less, too, when it comes to Epcot. This leadership team clearly doesn't get the park.
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
FWIW, we just got back from a trip (08/31-09/05). The parks were definitely busy over the weekend. We did Epcot Sunday, and crowds were higher. 60-70 for Test Track, 75-90 for FEA, 45-60 minutes for Soarin and LwtL most of the day, 20-30 for M:S and Grand Fiesta Tour. Food lines were also very long, as to be expected for opening weekend for F&WF. And, the lines were similar at the other Parks based on MDE. However, crowds were down by Tuesday. Signature attractions at Epcot at 40-60 minutes. Food lines also down to a few people. It does seem to be a successful start time for Disney based on past experience.
Hatbox Ghostbuster
Well-Known Member
I'd go a step farther and say that leadership in general doesn't understand their own company. They treat Walt like he was just an employee, or worse, some sort of IP.
All they see is money, cheap overlays, and a need to further dilute the Disney brand. They want you to hear "Disney" and think Star Lord and Chewbacca as much as you would think Pinocchio and Snow White.
Epcot82Guy
Well-Known Member
I agree 100% (and on everyone's appreciation of Martin!)
The biggest frustration for me is seeing something like Pandora - and knowing they know how to create something spectacular and immersive without making it trite. I have never seen Avatar, but Pandora was stunning and made sense. It admittedly pushed Animal Kingdom in a different direction, but I totally got it.
And, I was there with my BF, who had never been to WDW at all - only Disneyland as a child. He liked Epcot, but he said it felt forgotten. The bones and ideas were awesome, very enjoyable. But, it felt unfinished and dated. And, as a huge Frozen fan, he was very unimpressed with FEA. His exact words were that it felt cheap without much detail - and seem to fit World Showcase. We then started talking about clones that would easily fit - like Grizzly River Run in Canada as a loggers camp, a thematically appropriate version of Rat for France and Mr. Toad for UK, etc.
I really want to have hope, but the different camps at WDW management make it tough to hold out hope for Epcot - for the exact reason you've stated.
aladdin2007
Well-Known Member
this!!! walt? walt who? they dont even know who he is anymore, sadly. And they want the public to forget so they can do what they want like chuffing star wars overload down our throats. Ive been watching the american experience special about walt they have been reshowing on pbs, incredible, especially the beginnings and footage of Disneyland. It reminded me of what disney world use to be like too, in its hey day and how beautiful it use to be before it was ran by bankers and mall execs instead of creatives.
Hatbox Ghostbuster
Well-Known Member
Caught the special myself. It's really disheartening to see just how far the apple has fallen from the tree...
Haymarket2008
Well-Known Member
Are those proposals three options/proposals for the same overall project, or are they individual?
Think of them as masterplans.
Haymarket2008
Well-Known Member
Ahh yes, gotcha. So is it safe to assume the concept art that was released at D23 is one of the three?
seabreezept813
Well-Known Member
Truly..went into a Disney outlet the other day and wasn't so much shocked by all the Star Wars merchandise or even the cast member light saber battling the kids, but was irked that the TV was showing Star Wars. It's just not what Disney is about to me..
Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
You know, at this point they might as well just get rid of "Future World" and make the whole park World Showcase. I've seen no evidence that they have any idea what to do with Future World and they seem to have at least a slight plan regarding WS - attractions that are based on IPs that are loosely connected to the represented nation. It's not a GOOD consistent theme, but at least it's a consistent theme. And the only thing of value that would really be lost by leveling FW would be Spaceship Earth (a huge loss, but it's coming sometime.)
I hate the idea, but the idea I like - returning to the original spirit of FW - will never happen. Might as well put FW out of the misery of the half-death it's lingered in for decades. At this point, the remnants of the past - the shell of WoM and Imagination, LwtL - are just painful.
I hate the idea, but the idea I like - returning to the original spirit of FW - will never happen. Might as well put FW out of the misery of the half-death it's lingered in for decades. At this point, the remnants of the past - the shell of WoM and Imagination, LwtL - are just painful.
RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
It really is rough, isn't it? I want to see something new done, but the ideas being bandied about feel dispiriting, as if the cost involved in finally having something done at EPCOT feels too steep. When I saw discussions about the new direction vs. where the park has been for the past twenty or so years vs. what the park once was/could be again/still has the skeleton of while posting a bit after D23, I found myself thinking about it as if I was the fan of a pro sports team that was under threat to relocate. I thought of it like the story of the Montreal Expos: a baseball club that had some success in the 80s and sadly had its potential World Series caliber team derailed by the '94 strike, fell on hard times and low attendance figures in the years that followed, and eventually was bought up by Major League Baseball and sold to new owners who moved the team to Washington D.C. to create the Washington Nationals.
I ended up thinking about EPCOT Center the way an Expos fan probably viewed their club once the rough times began: ownership was awful, there wasn't a clear direction, even small successes couldn't add up to something long term and greater, etc. In such a situation, why not throw in the towel? Sure, the team will relocate, but they'll finally have decent ownership and be a much better overall team once they get things fixed up.
But the fact is...you're a fan. Yes, what's there now is a shell of what once was, but if the team relocates...that's it. It's gone. Now it isn't your team anymore. So you hope they don't move, because even if things don't improve for awhile there's still at least the chance that things could get righted: maybe a new investor comes along, or a better general manager who gets a bit of freedom, or a couple of young players ignite a spark that brings the team back from the brink, something could still go right and if the team stays around you'll be there to see the return to glory.
Just so with EPCOT: it's dealt with the poor management and lack of vision, it's a shell of its former glory, but so long as the bones of the original EPCOT Center remain it feels like there's still a chance that under the right leadership it could reclaim that greatness. Changes are much needed, but if the skeleton of EPCOT Center is gone, it'll have that "the team up and moved to DC" feel no matter what comes in the future.
Just stinks when it feels like your main options are "continue to watch a beloved park rot" or "watch that beloved park get gutted" (well, "gutted" being subjective, but I'm talking from a vintage EPCOT fan's view, of course).
DisneyFan18
Well-Known Member
@marni1971, is the plan for WoL becoming Knowhere from GOTG still top contender? or has there been any new/better proposal for the usage of said pavilion that is being considered?
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Casper Gutman
Well-Known Member
This is very, very well said. Applause.
FW is such a problem because it was tied to a very specific ideology that dominated American culture for several decades in the middle of the 20th century and was already dying out by the time EPCOT opened. It positioned science of a particular sort as an unmitigated good - not the abstract science practiced by professors in universities or government boffins, but the proprietary corporate science practiced at major conglomerates like GE and embodied in the consumer goods they produced - those "Nestle scientists" that often get a laugh today. It was a belief that America should lead the world, corporations should lead America, and consumption was a key element of happiness. It motivated all of the 20th century American Worlds Fairs from which FW took its inspiration, and it fell apart in the 60s and 70s. It was key to the way Walt Disney viewed the world.
Now, whether you or I buys that ideology isn't the point. Most of us like the park it created. But that way of thinking doesn't animate the zeitgeist the way it once did and Disney execs aren't going to suddenly reverse course and return EPCOT to the state it was in when it was a product of that view. But Disney execs also don't want to pick a new ideology either. And while every work of art (and theme parks are works of art) embodies certain ideological positions, something like FW embodies them more nakedly and with more immediacy than something like, say, Tommorrowland. To make a coherent version of FW you need a definition of "progress" and how best to achieve it and a view on the present world situation and which elements to celebrate. You also need to choose which science to present and which to omit. And that's all very controversial - there's no way the current exec team or any in the conceivable future will want to touch that. Better to stick in comic book properties.
GotG into the WoL was a proposal. One of many. Not the top one.
The future of this building is still undecided.
DisneyFan18
Well-Known Member
Thanks, I guess I got a little confused there. Is there anything you can share about the top proposal?
(So this isn't a WDW50 project, right?)
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It's an aspiration.