News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[SplashJacket]

I used to think that, but IMO, that kind of idea died once said companies could make their own content and distribute it easily on the internet. It's easier for them to "show off" that way rather than an exhibit at Disney.

I do think it's a missed opportunity to make a STEM-focused pavilion based on the Imagineers' work, however. Joshie showing animatronics off by SXSW - something like that would've worked to keep Epcot close to its theme and made it "more Disney."

All in all - and this has been mentioned before by others - a ton of money has been spent on Epcot, and it's probably no better with its overall theming issues, and I'd argue it's worse than before.

Unless you believe the theme of the park is "The Walt Disney Company's Treasure Trove of Intellectual Property", which it appears to be for all parks now. Which is a shame to me because I think it hurts the variety the parks once had.

They did allocate a substantial portion of the wish’s kid’s club to an imagineering area, so probably more plausible than we think

 

[comics101]

If they had the overall Marvel rights, a Stark Expo would have been the perfect use of those rights at EPCOT (and really the only good use I can think of). It would have the IP nexus necessary get approval.

I'm still glad they don't have most of the Marvel rights, though.

Idk man, they have the rights in CA and they literally built a warehouse district with a couple of photo op backgrounds at DCA

Why invest in a Stark Expo when you can slap a giant letter "A" on the ground, build a couple of red and blue boxes and call it a day?

 

[retr0gate]

"Inspired by Moana" is really feeling like an understatement, give what we're seeing now that it's getting closer to completion.

They've shown a lot more Moana "whimsy" with no mention of the formerly promised water cycle edutainment stuff.

Makes me wonder if they're just hiding that part, if plans have changed, or if they first presented it that way so curmudgeons like us would feel like some part of the old idea of Epcot was still being held onto with this addition/replacement.

Where? "Inspired by" feels fitting here seeing as the only explicit Moana theming we've seen is the logo, a couple of rock carvings and the Te Fiti sculpture - which largely blends into its surroundings and should come as a surprise to no one seeing as we've already known about it for months now. Hell, they even announced a Moana meet and greet yesterday and it's going in an entirely different park so I doubt the character herself will even be meeting here.

There's also been numerous mentions of the edutainment aspect, with the walkthrough itself supposedly showcasing the water cycle, and just because they aren't giving a scene by scene breakdown of the experience doesn't mean it isn't there. Obviously they're going to play more into the IP as their main marketing but the theming in the attraction itself from what we've seen seems fairly subtle. I can't imagine the edutainment part is something we're going to be able to see just from looking at aerial shots of the space.

 

[MrPromey]

Where? "Inspired by" feels fitting here seeing as the only explicit Moana theming we've seen is the logo, a couple of rock carvings and the Te Fiti sculpture - which largely blends into its surroundings and should come as a surprise to no one seeing as we've already known about it for months now. Hell, they even announced a Moana meet and greet yesterday and it's going in an entirely different park so I doubt the character herself will even be meeting here.

There's also been numerous mentions of the edutainment aspect, with the walkthrough itself supposedly showcasing the water cycle, and just because they aren't giving a scene by scene breakdown of the experience doesn't mean it isn't there. Obviously they're going to play more into the IP as their main marketing but the theming in the attraction itself from what we've seen seems fairly subtle. I can't imagine the edutainment part is something we're going to be able to see just from looking at aerial shots of the space.

So yeah, besides the rock carvings, the logo and the 16 foot fictional character featured in the middle - almost nothing Moana at all about it so far.

Yes, yes, yes - I'm fully aware of the "numerous mentions" - I thought that was obvious by my post where I mention them mentioning it. We heard about this in the vaguest of terms early on and they've said not a peep about that in what? a year? two years? and they've had plenty of opportunity to mention it with the updates they have given, including the imagineering hype videos where they say we will learn how water can be our friend and have personality.

Maybe that's the edutainment? Learning that water is in fact alive and sentient?

I'm not disputing something educational might still be in there. I'm saying they seem to have completely pivoted in their messaging in that regard since the initial announcements and it's looking a lot more like a Moana water walk-through with fancy water tricks designed solely to entertain and a lot less like a Moana inspired educational experience.

I mean, the updates are all referenced here on this site to look at if you want to point out where I'm wrong about this.

If you feel differently and can point to some sources, I'm open to having my mind changed.

You just telling me I'm wrong isn't going to sway me, I'm afraid.

Otherwise, I'm happy to agree to disagree.

 

[MrPromey]

THIS... it would be so easy to do. Kind of a mini ongoing version of what happens at the annual Consumer Electronics Show. Surely Disney could convince a dozen companies to set up booths and pay Disney handsomely for the privilege of being there (perhaps in the unused health pavilion) and rotate exhibits annually.

FTFY

... and that's why it ain't gonna' happen. Their marketing dollars can go a lot farther other ways these days and nobody wants to show off their latest tech in an environment that only gets updated every 20-30 years with a current move more towards offerings that are on an intellectual* level of state fare than world's fair.

I think initially, there was a certain prestige to being featured in EPCOT Center for many companies that wanted to be known as the top of their industries. I think the shine of that has faded, considerably, which is why most of the pavilions no-longer have sponsors of any sort... and also seems to be why they started being poorly maintained, value-updated, or just closed or replaced with IP.

*to be clear, I'm talking about the move from edutainment to mindless entertainment - I'm not saying Epcot has the quality of a state fair - want to explicitly state that before someone comes along and misinterprets that. It was just a slick way of using the word fair in two starkly contrasting ways that are appropriate for the change in direction this park has been seeing.

 

[retr0gate]

So yeah, besides the rock carvings, the logo and the 16 foot fictional character featured in the middle - almost nothing Moana at all about it so far.

Yes, yes, yes - I'm fully aware of the "numerous mentions" - I thought that was obvious by my post where I mention them mentioning it. We heard about this in the vaguest of terms early on and they've said not a peep about that in what? a year? two years? and they've had plenty of opportunity to mention it with the updates they have given, including the imagineering hype videos where they say we will learn how water can be our friend and have personality.

Maybe that's the edutainment? Learning that water is in fact alive and sentient?

I'm not disputing something educational might still be in there. I'm saying they seem to have completely pivoted in their messaging in that regard since the initial announcements and it's looking a lot more like a Moana water walk-through with fancy water tricks designed solely to entertain and a lot less like a Moana inspired educational experience.

I mean, the updates are all referenced here on this site to look at if you want to point out where I'm wrong about this.

If you feel differently and can point to some sources, I'm open to having my mind changed.

You just telling me I'm wrong isn't going to sway me, I'm afraid.

Otherwise, I'm happy to agree to disagree.

Agree to disagree I suppose. I can't dispute the corporate BS they've been feeding us in their numerous blog posts, but I'm not sure how what we're seeing right now is indicative of any kind of change or pivot in theme. If anything, this is the one part of the "overhaul" that seems almost unchanged since its original announcement. The attraction certainly sets out to entertain from what we can make out so far, so I guess that diminishes the experience somehow?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you're making assumptions because of the fact you can't physically see some sort of education aspect while the area is inaccessible to guests. You know, the part that's usually limited to signage and narration in every other EPCOT pavilion. Even if it does end up being some jargon about water being our friend or "alive," how do you suppose they teach such a concept to children? I won't ignore the fact that there's better ways they could've executed this, but what we're seeing now is no more outlandish than sentient vegetables singing about the benefits of good nutrition or using dinosaurs to preach to us about fossil fuels.

If the attraction does end up being garbage, I'll be the first in line to say so. I'm not, however, going to immediately dismiss the possibility of this attraction bringing some semblance of edutainment back into the park just because IP = bad. That's just my opinion, and I don't blame others for not being as optimistic given the parks recent track record with these things.

 

[MrPromey]

Agree to disagree I suppose. I can't dispute the corporate BS they've been feeding us in their numerous blog posts, but I'm not sure how what we're seeing right now is indicative of any kind of change or pivot in theme. If anything, this is the one part of the "overhaul" that seems almost unchanged since its original announcement. The attraction certainly sets out to entertain from what we can make out so far, so I guess that diminishes the experience somehow?

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you're making assumptions because of the fact you can't physically see some sort of education aspect while the area is inaccessible to guests. You know, the part that's usually limited to signage and narration in every other EPCOT pavilion. Even if it does end up being some jargon about water being our friend or "alive," how do you suppose they teach such a concept to children? I won't ignore the fact that there's better ways they could've executed this, but what we're seeing now is no more outlandish than sentient vegetables singing about the benefits of good nutrition or using dinosaurs to preach to us about fossil fuels.

If the attraction does end up being garbage, I'll be the first in line to say so. I'm not, however, going to immediately dismiss the possibility of this attraction bringing some semblance of edutainment back into the park just because IP = bad. That's just my opinion, and I don't blame others for not being as optimistic given the parks recent track record with these things.

I'm not sure what you're refuting from what I said, as a reminder, this was my original statement you replied to.

Highlighted a few parts in bold, there.

"Inspired by Moana" is really feeling like an understatement, given what we're seeing now that it's getting closer to completion.

They've shown a lot more Moana "whimsy" with no mention of the formerly promised water cycle edutainment stuff.

Makes me wonder if they're just hiding that part, if plans have changed, or if they first presented it that way so curmudgeons like us would feel like some part of the old idea of Epcot was still being held onto with this addition/replacement."

Feels like you're at least in part in agreement with what I said and are debating something else.

 

[retr0gate]

I'm not sure what you're refuting from what I said, as a reminder, this was my original statement you replied to.

Highlighted a few parts in bold, there.

"Inspired by Moana" is really feeling like an understatement, given what we're seeing now that it's getting closer to completion.

They've shown a lot more Moana "whimsy" with no mention of the formerly promised water cycle edutainment stuff.

Makes me wonder if they're just hiding that part, if plans have changed, or if they first presented it that way so curmudgeons like us would feel like some part of the old idea of Epcot was still being held onto with this addition/replacement."

Feels like you're at least in part in agreement with what I said and are debating something else.

I assure you I can (and did) read your original post. Because you want me to be more specific:

"They've shown a lot more Moana "whimsy" with no mention of the formerly promised water cycle edutainment stuff."
Again, what we've seen is no different from what they've shared from the very start. Sure, there's been "no mention" of the edutainment aspect… since January, apparently. At least according to a Disney Parks Blog showcasing the blasphemous Te Fiti statue no less:

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2023/01/welcoming-te-fiti-to-epcot/

"Along with Moana as a steward of water conservation, Te Fiti is a symbol of how we should protect and nurture water wherever we find it. This is an important theme in Journey of Water, where guests will learn more about how water travels from our skies to the ocean, and back again. This story will unfold along a lush trail inspired by the environments and art style of the beloved Walt Disney Animation Studios film."

Take it with a grain of salt because we know Disney likes to fluff up their posts, but it's there and I'm not sure how much more clearer they can be regarding that aspect unless they spoiled the entire experience. I don't see how any of the "whimsy" negates what's already been established from the very beginning.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The latest Disney PR video this week for Epcot and the 100th has the talking head mentioning the water cycle from rain to rivers to oceans and so on.

The previous WDI update video also mentioned the water cycle.

They released art a few months ago showing the water cycle.

Disney hasn't left out promoting the water cycle. It's the folks covering the attraction that keep putting the Te Fiti statue in their thumbnails that keep leaving out the reporting on the water cycle.

 

[retr0gate]

The latest Disney PR video this week for Epcot and the 100th has the talking head mentioning the water cycle from rain to rivers to oceans and so on.

The previous WDI update video also mentioned the water cycle.

They released art a few months ago showing the water cycle.

Disney hasn't left out promoting the water cycle. It's the folks covering the attraction that keep putting the Te Fiti statue in their thumbnails that keep leaving out the reporting on the water cycle.

Can't believe I forgot about this lol

 

[MrPromey]

I assure you I can (and did) read your original post. Because you want me to be more specific:

"They've shown a lot more Moana "whimsy" with no mention of the formerly promised water cycle edutainment stuff."
Again, what we've seen is no different from what they've shared from the very start. Sure, there's been "no mention" of the edutainment aspect… since January, apparently. At least according to a Disney Parks Blog showcasing the blasphemous Te Fiti statue no less:

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2023/01/welcoming-te-fiti-to-epcot/

"Along with Moana as a steward of water conservation, Te Fiti is a symbol of how we should protect and nurture water wherever we find it. This is an important theme in Journey of Water, where guests will learn more about how water travels from our skies to the ocean, and back again. This story will unfold along a lush trail inspired by the environments and art style of the beloved Walt Disney Animation Studios film."

Take it with a grain of salt because we know Disney likes to fluff up their posts, but it's there and I'm not sure how much more clearer they can be regarding that aspect unless they spoiled the entire experience. I don't see how any of the "whimsy" negates what's already been established from the very beginning.

Thank you - this is the kind of referencing I was talking about.

 

[Fear]

They've shown a lot more Moana "whimsy" with no mention of the formerly promised water cycle edutainment stuff.

They also aren't running the water effects yet. Hard to promote it when it's not demonstrable at this point. Meanwhile, the sculpture work is something they can photograph and show off right now.

 

[MrPromey]

They also aren't running the water effects yet. Hard to promote it when it's not demonstrable at this point. Meanwhile, the sculpture work is something they can photograph and show off right now.

Hasn't stopped them from talking about and hinting at said effects.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Can't believe I forgot about this lol

View attachment 704260

The graphic is missing Maui lassoing the sun.

 

[Goofnut1980]

I am not seeing this in the last bunch of pages, but I thought that the new area would be the place they would feature the food for the festivals and remove kiosks from around World Showcase? Or am I missing something?

 

[Fear]

I am not seeing this in the last bunch of pages, but I thought that the new area would be the place they would feature the food for the festivals and remove kiosks from around World Showcase? Or am I missing something?

The idea would be things like demonstration kitchens and presentations. They're not going to move the kiosks from around WS, and besides consolidating all of them in one small place would be a nightmare. Spreading them out around the park is optimal.

 

[Fear]

Excellent view of the construction site, as well as how JoW situates itself within the monorail loop:

 

[DCBaker]

 

[vikescaper]

It would be nice if they added some water features other than Moana. I am excited for the west bypass to close, though.

 

[MisterPenguin]