News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

DoleWhipDrea

Well-Known Member
I would be surprised if the festival pavilion is cancelled, as its design screams of future upcharged events (there’s no way that the average guest will be welcomed to watch HarmoniUS on that top level unless they pay another $150+.) And the park has needed a solid festival event space that could get guests indoors. That said, the placement for such a thing would make more sense in World Showcase. It’s definitely not worth messing with the sight lines for Spaceship Earth. “Vanity project” sounds about right.
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
I would be surprised if the festival pavilion is cancelled, as its design screams of future upcharged events (there’s no way that the average guest will be welcomed to watch HarmoniUS on that top level unless they pay another $150+.) And the park has needed a solid festival event space that could get guests indoors. That said, the placement for such a thing would make more sense in World Showcase. It’s definitely not worth messing with the sight lines for Spaceship Earth. “Vanity project” sounds about right.
To echo exactly what Martin said, they do. The CC buildings are literally giant convention centers designed for this sort of thing. The company even designed them to be expanded (and they partially were). It's not often when I want to see a project get slashed but this is one of them. They're going to build the wonder egg table, realize "oh...we had more space with the CC building", and then deal with all of the compromises (lack of expandability?) of having a structure 40ft (guessing) in the air.

They want their shiny new thing.

They could've made CC West look modern and fresh but whatever. I'm so glad we have cOoL gUy Zach leading this project. He knows what everyone wants.
 

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
Put it this way. For the amount being spent on the central area, they could more than bring it up to modern standards aesthetically and for modern needs and have enough left over to properly fix the mess inside the two glass pyramids to the west.

Multiple birds with one stone. To coin a phrase.

But what do I know.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
Fountain of Nations has been removed. For what?
For good.

But seriously, as much as the FoN had their good points, there were a few down points:
  • Created a pinch point in crowd flow
  • No place to relax and watch the fountain show [Hey, want to stay here and watch the fountain shows? You mean just stand here for an hour... um, no.]
  • Outdated fountain mechanics (and poorly maintained)
  • Lack of accessibility with it being raised and surrounded by concrete walls, ramps, and a stage.

There's at least one new fountain in the concept art, there will be the Journey of Water walk-through slightly-interactive water-feature, the refurbed front gate fountain, and new fountains added to the new fireworks show. So, it's not like all the fountains are being made into planters.
 

tparris

Well-Known Member
Wait, so is there any clarification on if the egg is happening, or at least if it will look like it does in the model and concept art?
 

TJ Vazquez

Premium Member
In the Parks
No
Put it this way. For the amount being spent on the central area, they could more than bring it up to modern standards aesthetically and for modern needs and have enough left over to properly fix the mess inside the two glass pyramids to the west.

Multiple birds with one stone. To coin a phrase.

But what do I know.
At some point every member on this board needs to nominate/petition you to take the reigns with all projects in Epcot, there needs to be more Martin's at WDI!
 

DoleWhipDrea

Well-Known Member
IMHO, if they want to have a fresh festival center, they should renovate the World ShowPlace Pavilion instead. It’s a giant warehouse with so much potential. As a guest that enjoys the festivals, I would rather see things taking place in World Showcase surrounded by the respective countries being celebrated. Sticking this in World Celebration, blocking the icon of the park, and underutilizing prime real estate in the front of the park feel short-sighted. And the construction wouldn’t be as intrusive as it is now...

Too many recent expansions seem to ignore the original intent and layout of a park’s design.
 

SplashZander

Well-Known Member
I view the Epcot hub overhaul as a tad bit lackluster, however, I personally do not understand why it is getting as much hate as it is getting.

Can someone please educate me?
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
IMHO, if they want to have a fresh festival center, they should renovate the World ShowPlace Pavilion instead. It’s a giant warehouse with so much potential. As a guest that enjoys the festivals, I would rather see things taking place in World Showcase surrounded by the respective countries being celebrated. Sticking this in World Celebration, blocking the icon of the park, and underutilizing prime real estate in the front of the park feel short-sighted. And the construction wouldn’t be as intrusive as it is now...

Too many recent expansions seem to ignore the original intent and layout of a park’s design.
The WSP needs to go eventually IMO. The new pavilion for World Celebration is a step in that direction.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I view the Epcot hub overhaul as a tad bit lackluster, however, I personally do not understand why it is getting as much hate as it is getting.

Can someone please educate me?
One theory I have is they want to move a percentage of Festival demand out of WS and distribute guests more evenly at Epcot. This has been the trend. And possibly necessary to add more pavilions to World Showcase.
 

skimbob

Well-Known Member
It looks like Moana is not on the new map either. Do we know if it has been delayed or does it not rate a place on the map?
 

Rteetz

Well-Known Member
I didn’t grow up with Epcot and never saw the 80s version because it was before my time but honestly I’m fine with the current plan for future world. I do think there could be some tweaks to make it better but I think the Innoventions buildings needed to go or be completely redone. I’m also okay with the egg or whatever you want to call it. It’s probably not perfect but they could’ve done worse I think. Just my take.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
I view the Epcot hub overhaul as a tad bit lackluster, however, I personally do not understand why it is getting as much hate as it is getting.

Can someone please educate me?
When it was originally Communicore, it was educational and fun and cutting-edge, especially in the world of computers.

People feel an emotional connection to the wonderment it brought them.

Though, on the down side, it was woefully inadequate to handle the crowds. For those for whom PPH throughput is important, they should recognize that huge shortcoming. Also, many of the cutting edge technology became outdated tech in a few years. Think of Project Tomorrow and its sorry state and thorough lack of capacity.

Now, does one blame Disney for not spending the money to keep it continuously updated, or the original EPCOT Board of Trustees and Imagineers who forgot to consider the cost of updating and never considered its low throughput? IDK.

WDW did indeed try to update it with the transformation into Innoventions... which had all the same pitfalls as Communicore and Project Tomorrow.

Besides the nostalgia of what was there, there are many good ideas for what could be done with the current building without the expense of tearing it down and putting up a Table/Egg that might be iconic, or might be ridiculous. The money spent on that could have been spent on other things, like making the Figment attraction no longer a horrible experience. If WDW wanted a Festival Center, then the current buildings would have sufficed and funds allocated better elsewhere.

OTOH... If one were a Disney bigwig... a huge and iconic renovation of Epcot may be what's needed to revitalize the park for future generations and the IP-infused attractions of tomorrow...

... which people hate.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
It looks like Moana is not on the new map either. Do we know if it has been delayed or does it not rate a place on the map?
They probably labeled WoL as PLAY! simply to get guests to stop asking what that building was and if anything is going to be done with it and when. There's no such current problem with the dirt mound that is currently Journey of Water.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I view the Epcot hub overhaul as a tad bit lackluster, however, I personally do not understand why it is getting as much hate as it is getting.

Can someone please educate me?
EPCOT Center was organized around ideas that shaped its built form, something that is most definitely lacking in the transition from Future World to neighborhoods. Even beyond personal attachments to the ideas and past attractions of Future World, the new World Celebrate is a weaker design.

Themed entertainment is storytelling through built space, and built space is more than just any assortment of buildings. How buildings are arranged and composed shape space and create part of the user experience. It is why standing in front of a church in a piazza (space making objects) is different than standing out in a church parking lot (objects in space). Theme parks are generally built on the definition of space but Future World instead utilizes objects in space, the theme pavilions, as a major organizing principle. The CommuniCore provided a spatially defined center to the theme pavilions, not only grouped East and West but radiating out from the Core. A figure ground map (where the buildings are black and everything else is white) still conveys the unity of Future World as one concept, something distinct from World Showcase that has its own organizational design language. The new neighborhoods have no such built, spatial boundaries. There is no center, no organizing principle, they are a collection of random buildings with no relation to each other or any common scheme. It is suburban sprawl, without definition or meaning that are at the heart of a themed experience.

Going beyond issues of design, the utility of the new festival center seems suspect. By its very nature, a festival center suggests a place of prominence in the seasonal events that have largely come to define contemporary Epcot. Such a space naturally calls for some degree of flexibility, something the presented design complicates. The building is elevated but for no stated purpose. Art shows nothing more than a big empty space at the ground level, so the main area where people are moving and experience the park is devoid of actual activity. The presented design features a few legs and a massive rectangular service core holding up a building with a slim base. The most likely way such a slim profile would be achieved is through the use of a post-tensioned concrete slab, a concrete slab filled with cables that are pulled tight. This type of slab is not very flexible. Anything new in the future that would require anchoring to the floor will be limited in where it can be placed as the anchors must be very careful to avoid those cables. While one would not expect Disney to go about moving walls between festivals, just looking forward years ahead it seems likely that some such changes would be desired at some point. And while that it is not a huge issue, it is still a limitation. Even if another system is used and it is a non-issue, anything brought in to support the festivals throughout the year will be limited to the size of the service elevator. Aside from its height, there is really nothing going into the festival center that is so specialized that it could not have been more easily incorporated into the existing building.

Huge sums, an oversized portion of the Evolving Epcot budget, are being spent on a building that is less useful and less spatially related to its surroundings than the one it is replacing instead of going to other areas of the park.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I still think that EPCOT should be re-designed, not to showcase an actual technological future (because technology develops much too quickly now; new inventions become dated very quickly), but various IMAGINED versions of the future. You could have sleek Jetsons-style architecture and attractions along with gearhead Steampunk attractions (the Atlantis film certainly had a steampunk flavor to it). And I'd love an attraction based on Treasure Planet. Yes, it was a box-office flop, but IMO it's the most underrated film Disney has ever produced (and was definitely set in an imaginary sci-fi future). It's beautifully designed and animated, and has clever touches and appealing characters throughout (my favorite is Long John Silver; re-imagining him as a cyborg was a stroke of brilliance IMO).
 

HauntedMansionFLA

Well-Known Member
To echo exactly what Martin said, they do. The CC buildings are literally giant convention centers designed for this sort of thing. The company even designed them to be expanded (and they partially were). It's not often when I want to see a project get slashed but this is one of them. They're going to build the wonder egg table, realize "oh...we had more space with the CC building", and then deal with all of the compromises (lack of expandability?) of having a structure 40ft (guessing) in the air.

They want their shiny new thing.

They could've made CC West look modern and fresh but whatever. I'm so glad we have cOoL gUy Zach leading this project. He knows what everyone wants.
Zach?
 
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