News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[wdisney9000]

What the naysayers and complainers seem to want is both new things while also keeping the old

Its not about individual attractions and their longevity. It is about a theme park with a distinct identity, not a clone of another park. Your gross misinterpretation of "the old" is a reflection of your lack of experiencing what was once a well balanced park.

 

[Ralphlaw]

I see you don't like slow moving attractions and you didn't take the time to read the post about Horizons. You are judging something you have never seen. So your opinion is less than credible in my book.
You like thrill rides and hate dark rides I get it. I think you might have more fun at Universal.
Walt Disney wanted rides that the whole family could ride together, like Pirates and HM. Epcot Center rides went along with that idea and educated along the way.

Do you even like any ride at WDW? If so which ones?

If I may say, you jump to conclusions way too fast. I admitted I never saw Horizons, but it certainly looks like yet another slow ride. Maybe I'm wrong, but the info I had at hand, especially from the video, was that it was another slow ride.

By the way, my favorite attraction in all of Epcot is Spaceship Earth. Like the vast majority of guests, I like a mix of slow and fast. All slow is, again, like a concert with nothing but ballads. All fast would be headache-inducing. Epcot had to add some attractions that were something other than sitting back and seeing things glide by. I don't think anyone would disagree with me on that, and in fact the documentaries and writings that I've seen on the subject unequivocally say that Disney felt a huge need in the 90s to add thrillier attractions. Thus, tried and true (and apparently not popular enough) Epcot pavilions were taken away to be replaced by other things with more adrenaline and zip to them. And where are the longest wait times? The things with unique movement, like Test Track and Soarin'. And where is it likely to pick up in the future? When Mission Space provides various places to go other than Mars.

So, please refrain from categorizing a person from a single post. Your conclusions, if you knew me, are utterly off base.

 

[wdisney9000]

If I may say, you jump to conclusions way too fast. I admitted I never saw Horizons, but it certainly looks like yet another slow ride. Maybe I'm wrong, but the info I had at hand, especially from the video, was that it was another slow ride.

By the way, my favorite attraction in all of Epcot is Spaceship Earth. Like the vast majority of guests, I like a mix of slow and fast. All slow is, again, like a concert with nothing but ballads. All fast would be headache-inducing. Epcot had to add some attractions that were something other than sitting back and seeing things glide by. I don't think anyone would disagree with me on that, and in fact the documentaries and writings that I've seen on the subject unequivocally say that Disney felt a huge need in the 90s to add thrillier attractions. Thus, tried and true (and apparently not popular enough) Epcot pavilions were taken away to be replaced by other things with more adrenaline and zip to them. And where are the longest wait times? The things with unique movement, like Test Track and Soarin'. And where is it likely to pick up in the future? When Mission Space provides various places to go other than Mars.

So, please refrain from categorizing a person from a single post. Your conclusions, if you knew me, are utterly off base.

First off, stop trying top make "thrillier" happen. Its not going to happen. And The long waits at Soarin and Test Track are more due to a lack of attraction capacity. Now that Soarin has a third theater, the wait time has been significantly reduced.

And what pavilions were "taken away", to be replaced with "other things with more adrenaline and zip"?

 

[Bocabear]

First off, stop trying top make "thrillier" happen. Its not going to happen. And The long waits at Soarin and Test Track are more due to a lack of attraction capacity. Now that Soarin has a third theater, the wait time has been significantly reduced.

And what pavilions were "taken away", to be replaced with "other things with more adrenaline and zip"?

Only Horizons...sadly

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

It's like going to hear your favorite band in a concert, but every song they end up doing is a ballad. Yes, it's a different ballad each time with different music and lyrics, but they're still all the same--SLOW.

This analogy makes no sense. If you are going to see YOUR FAVORITE BAND, then you should pretty darn well be aware that they play ballad tunes. Its one thing for a fast rock band to suddenly pull an acoustic night stunt and throw you for a loop, but this is not that. I would hope you're not setting foot at your favorite band's concert for the first time only to then discover that they're going to play slow ballads for you.

 

[Ralphlaw]

This analogy makes no sense. If you are going to see YOUR FAVORITE BAND, then you should pretty darn well be aware that they play ballad tunes. Its one thing for a fast rock band to suddenly pull an acoustic night stunt and throw you for a loop, but this is not that. I would hope you're not setting foot at your favorite band's concert for the first time only to then discover that they're going to play slow ballads for you.

True, but if I went to hear my favorite band, and they played nothing but their ballads even though they also have bunch of faster songs, I'd be sadly disappointed. I saw Three Dog Night a few years back at the World Showcase stage, and they didn't just stick to 'Never Been to Spain', 'Easy to be Hard' and 'Pieces of April'. They played those great ballads, but they also played 'Joy to the World', 'Black and White', and 'Celebrate' too. If they hadn't, a whole bunch of perplexed people would have been leaving. "What, can't Three Dog Night rock anymore?"

Epcot needed a mix, and the surplus of "sit back and look at stuff" attractions would NEVER fly past the 90s. Even with updates, the slow track would probably have to have been utterly replaced on such existing attractions, which would probably mean gutting the whole thing.

Call me crazy, but when I go on vacation, I want a mix of things. When people go to a good theme park, they probably want a mix of experiences to change up their day and to please the various members of the family, from food choices, edutainment, fast rides, more relaxing rides, hands-on stuff, shows, fireworks, music and shopping. A park with all slow rides makes for a monochrome day, and word would gradually evolve that "Future World is nothing but a science fair on a moving plastic seat." Some of that is fine, but if that's all you have, the term "Boring" would proliferate. A huge park like Epcot has to provide a mix. "What, can't Epcot go faster than 3 miles per hour?"

 

[DlpPhantom]

What Epcot lacked in thrill it made up for being something that had a purpose and the ability to show you the future which at the time was thrilling now people just don't get excited for advancements in tech because so many happen every day.

 

[DlpPhantom]

And stop trash talking Epcot Center Horizons is far superior to the piece of crap Mission Space

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

True, but if I went to hear my favorite band, and they played nothing but their ballads even though they also have bunch of faster songs, I'd be sadly disappointed. I saw Three Dog Night a few years back at the World Showcase stage, and they didn't just stick to 'Never Been to Spain', 'Easy to be Hard' and 'Pieces of April'. They played those great ballads, but they also played 'Joy to the World', 'Black and White', and 'Celebrate' too. If they hadn't, a whole bunch of perplexed people would have been leaving. "What, can't Three Dog Night rock anymore?"

Epcot needed a mix, and the surplus of "sit back and look at stuff" attractions would NEVER fly past the 90s. Even with updates, the slow track would probably have to have been utterly replaced on such existing attractions, which would probably mean gutting the whole thing.

Call me crazy, but when I go on vacation, I want a mix of things. When people go to a good theme park, they probably want a mix of experiences to change up their day and to please the various members of the family, from food choices, edutainment, fast rides, more relaxing rides, hands-on stuff, shows, fireworks, music and shopping. A park with all slow rides makes for a monochrome day, and word would gradually evolve that "Future World is nothing but a science fair on a moving plastic seat." Some of that is fine, but if that's all you have, the term "Boring" would proliferate. A huge park like Epcot has to provide a mix. "What, can't Epcot go faster than 3 miles per hour?"

I'm still having hang-ups with this music analogy. I would assume (and this might just be me) that if you're going to see your favorite band, you are familiar with ALL their music. You know they play fast stuff as well as slow stuff and you enjoy all of it equally. Going to Epcot then would be like the equivalent of attending one of their "ballad" nights, knowing FULL WELL what you were in for, not getting there and being surprised. And by the same token, if you don't like their ballad songs, then you don't have to attend their ballad concert.

Also, you keep insisting that slow rides are "unacceptable" and "wouldn't fly" past the 90s. Where are you getting this from? It seems purely like you're own opinions about the matter, not some written rule of law. Do you feel that rides such as HM and PotC don't fly in 2016 because they move slowly?

The beauty of all these rides (which I'm also gathering you never actually went on) wasn't the fact they were slow, but rather the world they immersed you in. Much in the way with SSE (which you like) these rides took you away to another place and time and left you inspired to actually go out and tackle life. Not exactly something you get from a ride that goes zoom!

I can appreciate you wanting variety...but you also have to know if you're at WDW, there are 3 other parks to choose from with rollercoasters to satisfy your thrill-itch and provide fun for the whole family.

 

[DznyRktekt]

Call me crazy, but when I go on vacation, I want a mix of things. When people go to a good theme park, they probably want a mix of experiences to change up their day and to please the various members of the family, from food choices, edutainment, fast rides, more relaxing rides, hands-on stuff, shows, fireworks, music and shopping. A park with all slow rides makes for a monochrome day, and word would gradually evolve that "Future World is nothing but a science fair on a moving plastic seat." Some of that is fine, but if that's all you have, the term "Boring" would proliferate. A huge park like Epcot has to provide a mix. "What, can't Epcot go faster than 3 miles per hour?"

One could argue that in the late 90's the mix of things was experiencing four unique themeparks with four unique experiences.

 

[FigmentForver96]

True, but if I went to hear my favorite band, and they played nothing but their ballads even though they also have bunch of faster songs, I'd be sadly disappointed. I saw Three Dog Night a few years back at the World Showcase stage, and they didn't just stick to 'Never Been to Spain', 'Easy to be Hard' and 'Pieces of April'. They played those great ballads, but they also played 'Joy to the World', 'Black and White', and 'Celebrate' too. If they hadn't, a whole bunch of perplexed people would have been leaving. "What, can't Three Dog Night rock anymore?"

Epcot needed a mix, and the surplus of "sit back and look at stuff" attractions would NEVER fly past the 90s. Even with updates, the slow track would probably have to have been utterly replaced on such existing attractions, which would probably mean gutting the whole thing.

Call me crazy, but when I go on vacation, I want a mix of things. When people go to a good theme park, they probably want a mix of experiences to change up their day and to please the various members of the family, from food choices, edutainment, fast rides, more relaxing rides, hands-on stuff, shows, fireworks, music and shopping. A park with all slow rides makes for a monochrome day, and word would gradually evolve that "Future World is nothing but a science fair on a moving plastic seat." Some of that is fine, but if that's all you have, the term "Boring" would proliferate. A huge park like Epcot has to provide a mix. "What, can't Epcot go faster than 3 miles per hour?"

Then go to the other three parks cause they have thrills. No what Epcot was or should be about. People want to be wowed and you can do that without thrills.

 

[Bocabear]

Then go to the other three parks cause they have thrills. No what Epcot was or should be about. People want to be wowed and you can do that without thrills.

And some of us found EPCOT's "wows" to be thrilling...

 

[RoysCabin]

I certainly was never against the very concept of thrill rides in EPCOT, but the fact is that quality is what wins out, and the original EPCOT Center was a high quality product that by just about every observable metric was a success with the public before being allowed to die on the vine.

I don't quite grasp this whole idea of "people say they want new stuff but only want the old"; I think this misunderstands simple nostalgia. I miss old school EPCOT because I loved going there, and while I still enjoy visiting I never quite get that same feeling anymore, at least on the Future World side. What almost everybody wanted was for some of the classic EPCOT attractions to be treated with the type of care that many of the traditional Disney Park rides and attractions receive; for the Figment and Dreamfinder AAs to receive regular updates, for the effects and clothing styles in Horizons to be updated so they don't feel planted in the 80s (which is fun to watch now...again, nostalgia), for Universe of Energy to push technological boundaries and discuss more current energy ideas, or for the Living Seas to up its technology so that the "I'm undersea" effect can feel even more immersive. Basically, for those pavilions to have received any real level of TLC.

Beyond that, heck yes we all wanted new things, too. EPCOT has always had plenty of expansion pads, plus there's the entirety of the rest of WDW to fill up with all kinds of new ideas of varying kinds. But hey, listen to some old school EPCOT aficionados talk about the old park and while they may wax nostalgic over the better, more open layout of CommuniCore or the great Mark Davis style AA scenes in World of Motion, many of them would still admit "yeah, some of those attractions had an expiration date"; it's no great sin, and even a thrill ride done in the service of the larger EPCOT theme could've been wonderful (does Body Wars count?).

The problem is that Disney began throwing the baby out with the bathwater with regards to EPCOT once it began shifting into Epcot '94 and the permutations that followed, letting World Showcase stagnate and basically taking the grand Future World concepts and often cutting them off at the knees. There was never, ever any need to do with Imagination what they wound up doing with it, for example, but here we are over 15 years later and what was once the most popular pavilion in the park has been left to die. Extend that: Figment, one of the more memorable characters of many young 80s and 90s kids WDW vacations, has lost a ton of monetization potential, too, since the attraction that now houses him is so unmemorable.

 

[Ralphlaw]

I'm still having hang-ups with this music analogy. I would assume (and this might just be me) that if you're going to see your favorite band, you are familiar with ALL their music. You know they play fast stuff as well as slow stuff and you enjoy all of it equally. Going to Epcot then would be like the equivalent of attending one of their "ballad" nights, knowing FULL WELL what you were in for, not getting there and being surprised. And by the same token, if you don't like their ballad songs, then you don't have to attend their ballad concert.

Also, you keep insisting that slow rides are "unacceptable" and "wouldn't fly" past the 90s. Where are you getting this from? It seems purely like you're own opinions about the matter, not some written rule of law. Do you feel that rides such as HM and PotC don't fly in 2016 because they move slowly?

The beauty of all these rides (which I'm also gathering you never actually went on) wasn't the fact they were slow, but rather the world they immersed you in. Much in the way with SSE (which you like) these rides took you away to another place and time and left you inspired to actually go out and tackle life. Not exactly something you get from a ride that goes zoom!

I can appreciate you wanting variety...but you also have to know if you're at WDW, there are 3 other parks to choose from with rollercoasters to satisfy your thrill-itch and provide fun for the whole family.

Okay, so what y'all are saying is that anyone who wants a mix and/or a touch of thrill in their day in the park should avoid Epcot? Uh . . . that's no way to run a business. Time for one of my numbered lists:

1. When a family goes on vacation, they probably would prefer to spend each day doing something overall that the whole family would enjoy.

2. If some in the family want a touch of adrenaline and thrill in their visit to the theme park, I would hope that particular theme park would have a bit of that in the mix.

3. If a particular park can't sate that desire for the family as a whole, the dissension would cause some families not to pony up the $100 per person to get in. "Dad, Epcot is boring. There's nothing exciting there." Versus, "Fine, Dad, I'll ride the slow stuff as long as we get fastpasses for Test Track."

4. I've seen in many separate interviews that a WDW push in the 90s was to get thrillier rides in all the parks. One doesn't need to review the Modern Marvels documentary and other Disney park histories very long to see that.

5. I would never bother going to a Three Dog Night concert of just ballads. I probably wouldn't overly-enjoy a Three Dog Night concert that never slowed it down from time to time either. It's the mix that is a fundamental component of a great concert.

Each park should have its theme, and for Disney, each park should be able to provide a great day for an entire family. Too much of one thing would be a terrible decision at so many levels, not the least of which being the financial level. Face it, some departure from the slower immersion attractions had to occur at Future World for the park to remain viable. Purists may disagree, but that original paradigm was seen to be growing stale. Change happens. It's both comforting and anger-inducing to dwell on that past too long.

And for those who seem to think I'm a thrill junky, I'll repeat that my favorite attraction at FW is SE. I've only ridden Rock & Roller Coaster twice, Tower of Terror thrice, and Space Mountain four times. The only version of Test Track that I actually like is the current version. I'm 51, and really enjoy the quieter times at World Showcase more than anything else on our Disney trips. My favorite place: The walk-up restaurant at the top of the hill in Japan.

However, I'm also a businessman who has learned long ago that dealing with the reality of change is a far better way to survive than to wallow in nostalgia or to glorify a past that probably would no longer hold up to that golden memory in my brain. I'm all for a return to wonder and optimism for the future, but I'm not going to spend undue time longing for the old. One exception: Bring back the old narration on the TTA in Tomorrowland, and delete that flaccid narration that does nothing but repeat "It's out of this world." Okay, yeah, I can be angry about change too.

With that being said, I think some return to the optimism and immersive mission of old Future World may indeed be missing today. A return to that ideal would be welcome. Yes, I wish I had been there to see it, but I was busy being poor and living 1,000 miles away to get to it. I'm sure I would have been enamored of it back in the day, but I'm also wise enough and old enough to know that so many rose colored memories simply do not age well.

 

[FigmentForver96]

Okay, so what y'all are saying is that anyone who wants a mix and/or a touch of thrill in their day in the park should avoid Epcot? Uh . . . that's no way to run a business. Time for one of my numbered lists:

1. When a family goes on vacation, they probably would prefer to spend each day doing something overall that the whole family would enjoy.

2. If some in the family want a touch of adrenaline and thrill in their visit to the theme park, I would hope that particular theme park would have a bit of that in the mix.

3. If a particular park can't sate that desire for the family as a whole, the dissension would cause some families not to pony up the $100 per person to get in. "Dad, Epcot is boring. There's nothing exciting there." Versus, "Fine, Dad, I'll ride the slow stuff as long as we get fastpasses for Test Track."

4. I've seen in many separate interviews that a WDW push in the 90s was to get thrillier rides in all the parks. One doesn't need to review the Modern Marvels documentary and other Disney park histories very long to see that.

5. I would never bother going to a Three Dog Night concert of just ballads. I probably wouldn't overly-enjoy a Three Dog Night concert that never slowed it down from time to time either. It's the mix that is a fundamental component of a great concert.

Each park should have its theme, and for Disney, each park should be able to provide a great day for an entire family. Too much of one thing would be a terrible decision at so many levels, not the least of which being the financial level. Face it, some departure from the slower immersion attractions had to occur at Future World for the park to remain viable. Purists may disagree, but that original paradigm was seen to be growing stale. Change happens. It's both comforting and anger-inducing to dwell on that past too long.

And for those who seem to think I'm a thrill junky, I'll repeat that my favorite attraction at FW is SE. I've only ridden Rock & Roller Coaster twice, Tower of Terror thrice, and Space Mountain four times. The only version of Test Track that I actually like is the current version. I'm 51, and really enjoy the quieter times at World Showcase more than anything else on our Disney trips. My favorite place: The walk-up restaurant at the top of the hill in Japan.

However, I'm also a businessman who has learned long ago that dealing with the reality of change is a far better way to survive than to wallow in nostalgia or to glorify a past that probably would no longer hold up to that golden memory in my brain. I'm all for a return to wonder and optimism for the future, but I'm not going to spend undue time longing for the old. One exception: Bring back the old narration on the TTA in Tomorrowland, and delete that flaccid narration that does nothing but repeat "It's out of this world." Okay, yeah, I can be angry about change too.

With that being said, I think some return to the optimism and immersive mission of old Future World may indeed be missing today. A return to that ideal would be welcome. Yes, I wish I had been there to see it, but I was busy being poor and living 1,000 miles away to get to it. I'm sure I would have been enamored of it back in the day, but I'm also wise enough and old enough to know that so many rose colored memories simply do not age well.

Ok you keep missing the point entirely. The rides of then, if they had been properly updated it would have been amazing. You are assuming that somehow the only thing young people want is thrill rides and that is not accurate. Many of the hardest EPCOT Center fans were children when it opened. The kids were never bored because everything was inspiring and amazing. They could do that again but no lets just build big rides cause that's all the young ones care about.

 

[britain]

. Many of the hardest EPCOT Center fans were children when it opened. The kids were never bored because everything was inspiring and amazing.

I refer you to my aforementioned jr. high classmate who thought EPCOT was the most boring place ever. I didn't feel that way, but many did.

 

[PorterRedkey]

If I may say, you jump to conclusions way too fast. I admitted I never saw Horizons, but it certainly looks like yet another slow ride. Maybe I'm wrong, but the info I had at hand, especially from the video, was that it was another slow ride.

By the way, my favorite attraction in all of Epcot is Spaceship Earth. Like the vast majority of guests, I like a mix of slow and fast. All slow is, again, like a concert with nothing but ballads. All fast would be headache-inducing. Epcot had to add some attractions that were something other than sitting back and seeing things glide by. I don't think anyone would disagree with me on that, and in fact the documentaries and writings that I've seen on the subject unequivocally say that Disney felt a huge need in the 90s to add thrillier attractions. Thus, tried and true (and apparently not popular enough) Epcot pavilions were taken away to be replaced by other things with more adrenaline and zip to them. And where are the longest wait times? The things with unique movement, like Test Track and Soarin'. And where is it likely to pick up in the future? When Mission Space provides various places to go other than Mars.

So, please refrain from categorizing a person from a single post. Your conclusions, if you knew me, are utterly off base.

Sorry if I miscategorized you.

Oh, Disney thought it needed thrills alright - that is why we almost got a rollercoaster (Time Racers) in your favorite Epcot attraction SSE. Would that have been okay with you since it was/is your favorite ride at Epcot?

Did you read the Horizon article? If not, check it out. Ride videos do not do this attraction justice. I thought Epcot was at its best in the early 90's. You seem to like the newer thrill rides added to the "slow rides/dark rides". That's fine, but you really can't comment on the quality of the rides from the 90's if you never experienced them.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

3. If a particular park can't sate that desire for the family as a whole, the dissension would cause some families not to pony up the $100 per person to get in. "Dad, Epcot is boring. There's nothing exciting there." Versus, "Fine, Dad, I'll ride the slow stuff as long as we get fastpasses for Test Track."

You basically gave the message that no kid wants to learn a single thing in a fun and educational way.

You don't know how my younger brother and I were in 1991 during our first time at WDW back when WDW only had 3 theme parks.

My younger brother and I was not a thrill seekers despite your assumption that all kids and teens are. My younger brother and I loved Epcot and we liked it better than the Magic Kingdom and Disney MGM Studios. We loved learning stuff even on going on vacation. Where I grew up, it was cheaper to go on Six Flags than WDW from a travel standpoint expense standpoint if you wanted to do thrill rides.

My younger brother and I loved the land Pavilion and going on listen to the land aka now known as Living with the land. The reason we liked so much is easy to see. We grew up in family that grew tomatoes, raspberries, cucumbers, etc. in our garden even before going to WDW in 1991. I loved the living Seas growing up matter of fact way before Nemo took it over.

You have no what What World showcase meant to me in 1991. Back in 1991, the Internet was not exactly well known. I was very interest in other cultures in other countries as I was entering Middle School in 1991. Even before 1991, I was interest in all forms of Social studies including history and that explains why visiting Pavilions in Epcot was something I was very excited about.

The fact is there only was able to learn about other countries in that era as I was entering Middle School was by reading books, travel to foreign countries, or go to Epcot. Reading Books is fine, but it doesn't replace stuff like trying to see it with your own eyes. World Showcase was the closest thing to going to foreign countries for me when I was growing up.

 

[DznyRktekt]

I refer you to my aforementioned jr. high classmate who thought EPCOT was the most boring place ever. I didn't feel that way, but many did.

Curious, but did that classmate go on to pursue a career in science, technology, or the arts? If not, maybe those topics weren't his or her cup of tea, therefore making EPCOT Center as uninspiring as a local museum or gallery.

 

[montyz81]

Why is this so hard? Why does this debate about Epcot Center vs Epcot need to continue. It's very simple for Disney to solve this problem. There can be thrills, there can be IPs, there can be education, there can be inspiration. If imagineers do it in a thoughtful meaningful way, The IPs can educate and thrill at the same time. Think SDMT. It has thrill in it, it has IPs in it, all it would need for Epcot is that educational and future inspirational aspect included. The train slows down and moves at the pace of an omnimover to help tell you a story after which it continues on it's roller coaster ways. Actually, even Test Track does that. Splash Mountain does it too. Even Pirates does it. It is possible to achieve everything for everyone. All Disney needs to do is spend the money to do it and stop shoehorning IPs into spots that were not originally built for said IP. Don't get me wrong, I would love to visit the Epcot Center that I visited in March 1983. That is just not going to happen. But, Disney could get closer to that while satisfying their need to draw crowds with IPs. The more I think about it, Test Track actually is even a better example of how this could be done. There is some future technology inspiration in it that makes you think; "this belongs in Future World". Just wanted to say my peace and hope Disney sees this and fulfills on all WDWMagic membership's dreams and imaginations!