Big changes coming to Annual Passes

[dreamfinder]

You will be at whatever you purchased. Anything bought before the changes were announced stays at that level until time for renewal (or upgrade).

I've been seeing reports (some claiming to be from a CM who works in ticketing) that guests redeeming vouchers were being issued the closest equivalent in the new passes. So a voucher sold for a standard AP would be redeemed for a Platinum pass under the new structure. Any pass that was issued would indeed remain the same with the same entitlements that you have had all along unless you pay to upgrade it.

There is a YAHOO news item this morning about the increase and there seems to be a revolt going on in Disneyland. I don't see the big deal?

DLR got hit with a huge increase. Their Premium pass had been $779, but now if you want something similar with no blackout days you need to pay $1049. Thats a pretty darn big jump. Three days ago you could pay $1099 and get a full year at both DLR and WDW, and now you can barely get a full year at DLR.

so if thats the case why don't they just set or lower the ideal capacity limits on the parks?

Money. Money, money, money.

 

[PhilharMagician]

With all due respect, you're not correct. I only lived there and vacationed there before living in Orlando. We're talking summer blocks with the MK open to midnight or longer on a daily basis, the Studios until 10:30 or 11, extra magic hours keeping the MK open until 1. Epcot with hours that at times went as late as 10:30. It's factual. I could easily drag out a bunch of old guidebooks that have these times published.

Out of all the parks, Epcot runs a pretty fixed schedule and closes @ 9:00 PM with a few exceptions and it has been that way for more than 10 years. Exceptions being NYE, July 4th, Holiday period and F&W weekends. Also besides NYE and July 4th, when is DHS open until 11:00? During busy times they will close the park @ 9:30 or 10 and then run Fantasmic @ 10:30, but the park is technically not open.

Just curious, what years were they open these hours? late 80's early 90's?

 

[photomatt]

I talked to a CM who works in the AP department. He gave me some inside information that I thought I should share.

All of the new passes will have a variation of this design.

The passes will be made from the dried tears and crushed dreams of children whose parents can no longer afford to take them to the parks.

They were originally going with this design, but they changed their minds.

I'm just kidding (hopefully).

 

[xdan0920]

The passes will be made from the dried tears and crushed dreams of children whose parents can no longer afford to take them to the parks.



I'm just kidding (hopefully).

I know you're making a joke. But, a big issue I see is that people think it's up to WDW to be inclusive. All income levels, everyone should get a chance to visit WDW. I don't understand that viewpoint at all.

 

[photomatt]

I know you're making a joke. But, a big issue I see is that people think it's up to WDW to be inclusive. All income levels, everyone should get a chance to visit WDW. I don't understand that viewpoint at all.

Exactly. My post is satire supporting your viewpoint.

 

[DisneyJeff]

I've been seeing reports (some claiming to be from a CM who works in ticketing) that guests redeeming vouchers were being issued the closest equivalent in the new passes. So a voucher sold for a standard AP would be redeemed for a Platinum pass under the new structure. Any pass that was issued would indeed remain the same with the same entitlements that you have had all along unless you pay to upgrade it.

I communicated with a travel representative from AAA yesterday who told me that they are still selling their Annual Pass vouchers at the same price. If the above information is correct, you can get a new tier AP for lower than the old pricing. I believe the AAA discount is around $25 cheaper than the standard Disney price.

 

[seascape]

I have been saying for a long time that Disney does not care about the locals. Universal is not far behind. This is what happens when the theme park company adds all those hotel rooms and timeshares. From a business standpoint it only makes sense for both Disney and Universal to care more about the vacationers than those who live in the area. Like many others here I own DVC points and visit WDW 3 times a year. We have been buying the photo pass twice a year and have 2 adult Annual Passes. Now we will buy the plus option and get everything we have now but not have to pay extra for the photo pass. This is not a price increase for other customers like my wife and I. In fact we will actually save a little. But we will spend just under $3,600.00 in DVC dues and 2 annual passes in 2016. That is about $1,200.00 a week for the 2 of us before any food and other purchases. Not affordable for everyone but not crazy either.

Other can stay off site for much less. Bonnet Creek is a wonderul resort and you can stay there for less or at one of the many other off site timeshares for $500 a week or less. Shop around and you can save a lot but don't think that what Disney is doing amd you will all see Universal follow with their stated goal of having 15,000 hotel rooms that either company is really interested 8n the locals. Just an example as someone stated above Six Flags costs much less. We also one their and pay less for the 2 of us with free dining for less than one of our WDW passes. However the only money Six Flags gets from us is the flat amount. We never buy anything from them which is not the case with Disney. The difference is we go to Great Adventure for the day and not a vacation. WDW is a vacation and we relax at the resort and the parks. You don't have to spend all your time in the parks. 4 to 5 hours a day is fine. Use fast pass and enjoy the resorts pool and other activities.

For those who stop paying and put their DVC points on the market fine it will lower the cost and maybe I will buy some more resale points.

 

[Travel Junkie]

The over $1,000 Disneyland pass is getting a lot of publicity, but in reality I doubt many people will get that one. Most people that were at the current Premium will go the Signature pass which is a much smaller price hike than before. That's not to say the prices are getting very very high.

With DLR and WDW AP’s the idea is trying to alter visiting patterns. I hear a lot of people claiming that Disney hates AP’s and wants them gone. I’m sure in some circles there is some truth to that but by and large Disney wants AP’s, they just want to control when they visit. DLR has been playing with this for years. If Disney wanted the really reduce the AP population in large numbers they would do things like remove the monthly payment options.

What Disney is doing is really a microcosm of where our society has gone. Activities that were traditionally within reach for the middle class are being more and more taken out of reach. See this story on what has happened to children in sports. https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...e-11e5-9ef3-fde182507eac_story.html?tid=sm_tw My friend’s daughter wanted to play club Volleyball. To get on the club team it would cost $4,000. If she doesn’t play club, she has virtually no shot at making her high school team as the coach has openly admitted only kids that play club make the team.

The divide between the have's and the have not's is growing and Disney is only one example of actitvities the non wealthy are getting shut out of.

 

[DisneyFans4Life]

I haven't read all 34 pages on this topic, but here's my take:

WDW is in the business to make money and they're going to do whatever they can/want to make money...lots of it. They can do it simply because they can. They know that there are people out there (like me) who will always want to go to WDW and will renew every year. They know there are people who will travel to WDW and spend lots of money regardless of prices. When you travel, it's an expectation that you're going to spend money..that's why you save and budget.

IMO, they do a great job with entertaining kids and adults and truly have something for the entire family; when you're at Disney, it feels special. Where else can you go and get that experience? I have read many posts about WDW not having enough thrill rides, taking away hamburger locations, not expanding enough, not building fast enough, etc. In every one of those posts, you have people who are for and against the changes' we must know that they can't satisfy everyone and we will all have complaints from time to time.

I am an AP and a FL resident who lives only an hour away, so maybe I'm not the best example...but my family and I go to Disney quite often. Sometimes it's just for the day, other times we may stay a night (on or off property) and at least a couple times a year we'll go for an extended time of at least 4 days. If we were to do this without an AP, it would be astronomically expensive. We also have the Disney Visa card, so we get quite a few rewards dollars every month to use, plus discounts on food and merchandise. Depending on how often we go in a certain month, we may not have to pay for our food at all by using the Disney Rewards dollars.

It does suck that the prices went up...but let's face it...it's not the first time this has happened and I promise you it's not the last. We also can't expect WDW to make everyone happy and us agree with every choice they make.

At the end of the day, I think the future is bright for WDW and the future attractions are going to be great. I look forward to taking my family back to WDW in the years to come and at the same time expect prices to go up. Going to WDW is our thing and that's what we enjoy doing, so we'll find ways to make it work.

 

[hopemax]

I know you're making a joke. But, a big issue I see is that people think it's up to WDW to be inclusive. All income levels, everyone should get a chance to visit WDW. I don't understand that viewpoint at all.

But the perception of WDW as an American Mecca (something you don't get by appealing only to the top earners) has benefited Disney greatly. If WDW re-positions itself as for high income earners, than the perception of WDW will change. It will no longer be a "right of passage" for American children; most of their families would never be able to take them. It will become to be viewed as illogical as taking your kids to Europe for a week. A perception change like that hurts Disney.

Also, WDW would be expected to provide levels of service, levels of detail, upgrades and frequency of upgrades that the highest income level expect. That could potentially be huge costs, for Disney, to bring their resort inline. Will they really be satisfied with their stays at the All-Stars, Pop or Animation, with the amenities they have vs traditional higher end hotel rooms? The total of those rooms is about 1/3 of all rooms on property. We know from Spirit, and Parentsof4 delving into the financials that the Deluxe resorts are suffering, which is why there are so many conversions. The high income levels aren't flocking to those rooms either.

WDW has a great dependency upon multiple income levels. I'm struggling to figure how WDW can still be WDW once the word really gets out, "if you aren't really part of the 10%, this place isn't for you, just accept it already."

 

[MichWolv]

*Disneyland is a different story. Hitting the local APs so hard seems risky to me, they must be very confident in their overall numbers to hit them with that kind of increase all at once.

The downside of the successful DCA makeover. Disneyland now draws sufficient numbers of out-of-state visitors that the resort doesn't need to rely as much on locals making multiple trips. Disneyland AP prices (and the bi-coastal Premier Pass) are up over 100% since 2010. Over the same time, WDW AP's are up "only" about 33%.

 

[MichWolv]

WDW has a great dependency upon multiple income levels. I'm struggling to figure how WDW can still be WDW once the word really gets out, "if you aren't really part of the 10%, this place isn't for you, just accept it already."

The AP increase is huge, but over the past 5 years, the price of a 7 day MYW ticket with park hopping and Water Park Fun, which basically allows for a 10-12 day vacation, has gone up something like $75 pp, or about 20%. For the family making a once every couple years trip, that increase is unlikely to price them out if they weren't priced out 5 years ago.

 

[ChrisM]

But the perception of WDW as an American Mecca (something you don't get by appealing only to the top earners) has benefited Disney greatly. If WDW re-positions itself as for high income earners, than the perception of WDW will change. It will no longer be a "right of passage" for American children; most of their families would never be able to take them. It will become to be viewed as illogical as taking your kids to Europe for a week. A perception change like that hurts Disney.

Also, WDW would be expected to provide levels of service, levels of detail, upgrades and frequency of upgrades that the highest income level expect. That could potentially be huge costs, for Disney, to bring their resort inline. Will they really be satisfied with their stays at the All-Stars, Pop or Animation, with the amenities they have vs traditional higher end hotel rooms? The total of those rooms is about 1/3 of all rooms on property. We know from Spirit, and Parentsof4 delving into the financials that the Deluxe resorts are suffering, which is why there are so many conversions. The high income levels aren't flocking to those rooms either.

WDW has a great dependency upon multiple income levels. I'm struggling to figure how WDW can still be WDW once the word really gets out, "if you aren't really part of the 10%, this place isn't for you, just accept it already."

It's pretty clear that Disney is trying to puzzle out how to maximize revenue by chasing the (high income) top of the market dollars. They've clearly exhausted all of their down market attempts and are struggling with how to (A) get more top market dollars while (B) not completely estranging the down market guests.

Disney Springs, GF DVC, Poly bungalows, WL waterfront villas, and all of the myriad parties and add-ons are all looking like top market plays. We'll see how it works out.

 

[Wildflower]

I've been seeing reports (some claiming to be from a CM who works in ticketing) that guests redeeming vouchers were being issued the closest equivalent in the new passes. So a voucher sold for a standard AP would be redeemed for a Platinum pass under the new structure. Any pass that was issued would indeed remain the same with the same entitlements that you have had all along unless you pay to upgrade it.

Makes sense, I was thinking of the online renewal version (eCertificate) via Disney site which we were told did not (imagine that's because it's already linked to your account etc etc). According to the Disney mom's panel response, you are dead on for the vouchers.

. EDIT: went and looked at our renewal printouts and there is no eCert this year...all electronic so their response does follow. Thanks for clarifying on the true vouchers!!

 

[Chernaboggles]

But the perception of WDW as an American Mecca (something you don't get by appealing only to the top earners) has benefited Disney greatly. If WDW re-positions itself as for high income earners, than the perception of WDW will change. It will no longer be a "right of passage" for American children; most of their families would never be able to take them.

Agreed. Disney has worked very hard to position themselves as a destination so desirable that it's worth saving and planning for years just to spend a week there, and they go to great lengths to help people do just that. I don't think they're going to switch over to the "If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it." approach.

 

[doctornick]

I'm not trying to be snarky but how do you not see the big deal to some people? The increase might not affect you but APs at over $1000 per person is a lot for most families.

And I'm not trying to be snarky either, but my gut feeling is that unrestricted annual passes to a highly regarded Disney theme park doesn't strike me as the type of thing that "should" be affordable to an average American family. I'm not talking about a moral or business ethics sense, but just from a value standpoint. It's nice to view to parks as something for the local community to regularly enjoy, but the ability to be able to show up any time you want to get into WDW or DL strikes me as something that should be a premium product and priced as such.

 

[doctornick]

The parks are too crowded too often. Could they add capacity? Sure. Would it solve the issues? I don't think so. In September every park we went to was pretty much slammed. Weekdays in September. There has to be an ideal number of guests to income that WDW aspires too. Selfishly, I hope it's a lower number of guests then we currently see.

It's a double edged sword too: if they build new rides that are popular, it will increase capacity but also bring in greater crowds. If they build new rides that are poorly regarded just to increase capacity without bringing in new crowds, we would see negative publicity criticizing the builds.

They really need to do stuff like build one great E-ticket (to get good publicity and for advertising) which simultaneously building like 3-5 C-ticket people eaters to relieve the crowding.

 

[FigmentsFangirl]

Well, one thing is for sure, the AP was worth it for a 21 day stay earlier this year....

But; looks like Rumplestiltskin was right, All magic DOES come with a price

 

[DisneyFans4Life]

And I'm not trying to be snarky either, but my gut feeling is that unrestricted annual passes to a highly regarded Disney theme park doesn't strike me as the type of thing that "should" be affordable to an average American family. I'm not talking about a moral or business ethics sense, but just from a value standpoint. It's nice to view to parks as something for the local community to regularly enjoy, but the ability to be able to show up any time you want to get into WDW or DL strikes me as something that should be a premium product and priced as such.

I have to agree with you here. Being able to go to Disney is becoming an event that some people are no longer going to enjoy. Though any kid should be able to experience WDW, many will not. It feels like WDW is starting to turn into a hobby almost. If you're serious about a hobby, you pay lots of money to enjoy and participate in said hobby. I live in Tampa...so I could very easily go to the beach any weekend I wanted. I could go to Busch Gardens or Adventure Island or Lowry Park Zoo or the Florida Aquarium (we actually get in free to Lowry Park and the Aquarium because my wife is a teacher). Most beaches are free unless you have to pay to park. Why do we pay lots of money to go to WDW? Because we enjoy doing it! That is our choice...WDW is our "thing." We do pay a premium, but we also expect to pay a premium and more often than not, WDW delivers. We have felt let down very few times.

 

[George]

Visiting more frequently doesn't increase your disposible income. Disney wants to increase their share of your discrectionary spend.. and ensure each trip includes you spending as much as possible.

There is always a range.. this is not A or B. New customers cost a lot to capture.. repeat customers who are loyal are cheap to attraction, but can be more expensive to retain over time... their spend can be high, but overtime will slide compared to 'fresh meat'. Go further along the scale and the person's load on the park can start to exceed their spend.

Every business wants to increase 'opportunities' to convert into sales... that means stuff the gates. But ultimately you move beyond stuffing and say "I want a specific type of customer... not just any" because of the greater potential.

The "lets have a family Disney vacation" from the family that comes in frequently is Disney's whale. Body for body they represent the highest potential... but frequent visitors are valuable to because they start to discover the other spending options the noobs may be too overwhelmed to find. So there is a sweet spot in terms of frequency and buyer-awareness... but simply saying "I'm a frequent customer, who spends a lot" doesn't make you the most desirable body to have committed your finite capacity to. This is DLR's problem.. far worse than WDW's. Too much of the capacity is being consumed by discount admissions and high repeat customers whose average spend is low compared to if that same spot was filled by a day tripper.

And then's there's someone like me who has been going since he was 3 in 1972 and routinely sells cans of Dr. Thunder on MSUSA for $2.38 per can. Also, if you're willing to wait in line, I can get you a seat on the monorail for $5. Unless, of course, you have to stand. Hey, you signed the agreement.