Big changes coming to Annual Passes

[Baltar]

It's simple arithmetic. I go x amount of days. An Annual Pass costs y dollars. Divide x into y and decide if it's a good value for you. If not, don't buy it. My suspicion is, most people will still buy. Compared to MYW tix, it's still going to be a value for a vast majority of AP holders.

On that note....The dope(s) spouting off about Lifestylers don't get it. A guy like Brigante goes hundreds of days per year. Is he not gonna purchase an AP that effectively costs him an extra dollar per visit?

Nobody said it was difficult to understand but tax increases, WDW price increases etc don't normally get "You know, this is feasible" responses. People have the right to get upset about this. Yes I think they'll figure out the arithmetic and make a decision to renew the APs for the most part. Some won't.

 

[POLY LOVER]

It's simple arithmetic. I go x amount of days. An Annual Pass costs y dollars. Divide x into y and decide if it's a good value for you. If not, don't buy it. My suspicion is, most people will still buy. Compared to MYW tix, it's still going to be a value for a vast majority of AP holders.

On that note....The dope(s) spouting off about Lifestylers don't get it. A guy like Brigante goes hundreds of days per year. Is he not gonna purchase an AP that effectively costs him an extra dollar per visit?

so they basically know they have you over a barrel and you have little choice so get out the check book and start writing in the new numbers.

 

[xdan0920]

so they basically know they have you over a barrel and you have little choice so get out the check book and strat writing in the new numbers.

No.

 

[POLY LOVER]

No.

so your done with Disney?

 

[xdan0920]

so your done with Disney?

No.

 

[flyerjab]

The parks are too crowded too often. Could they add capacity? Sure. Would it solve the issues? I don't think so. In September every park we went to was pretty much slammed. Weekdays in September. There has to be an ideal number of guests to income that WDW aspires too. Selfishly, I hope it's a lower number of guests then we currently see.

Selfishly, I agree.

 

[POLY LOVER]

lets face it no one likes a price increase, I go to the market and my half gallon of Ice cream is a quart and a half now, I buy a candy bar and the package has an inch of empty space in it, 3 inch cookies are now 2.5 inches, and the prices are the same, a price increase in effect. we hate it but we keep buying the stuff. I don't even want to bring up the shrinking COFFEE CAN. Disney does what they feel they need to do, I think fans will take it like a man and keep going. Folks need to vent so get it off your chest.

I also hear the same claims from football fans and they raise parking , food, beer, tickets but the stadiums are full after all the complaining.

 

[POLY LOVER]

The parks are too crowded too often. Could they add capacity? Sure. Would it solve the issues? I don't think so. In September every park we went to was pretty much slammed. Weekdays in September. There has to be an ideal number of guests to income that WDW aspires too. Selfishly, I hope it's a lower number of guests then we currently see.

so if thats the case why don't they just set or lower the ideal capacity limits on the parks?

 

[POLY LOVER]

lets face it no one likes a price increase, I go to the market and my half gallon of Ice cream is a quart and a half now, I buy a candy bar and the package has an inch of empty space in it, 3 inch cookies are now 2.5 inches, and the prices are the same, a price increase in effect. we hate it but we keep buying the stuff. I don't even want to bring up the shrinking COFFEE CAN. Disney does what they feel they need to do, I think fans will take it like a man and keep going. Folks need to vent so get it off your chest.

I also hear the same claims from football fans and they raise parking , food, beer, tickets but the stadiums are full after all the complaining.

I'm answering my own post because I forgot the ultimate rip off of charging fans a SEAT LICENSE to buy a ticket. I thought that would be the final straw BUT NO, they pay it, What if Disney charged an additional fee just so you could have the priveldge of buying a pass.

 

[alphac2005]

Just a quick thought here as the 50.1 million person attendance total is being thrown around for WDW right now. As @WDW1974 and others in the know have mentioned several times in the past, those numbers get very massaged today. The massive increase in hard ticketed events between the added dates and much higher capacity get clumped in and there has been talk of how they come up with the actual attendance totals.

Think about this: Theme park hours are most days significantly less than they were in the past, extra magic hours having been sliced, and where does that leave you? Less hours for people to be spread out in the parks during a given day. It seems the only true late nights are when you pay for a hard ticket event today.


There is absolutely no question that attendance is up, but with four main theme parks, there should in reality be no reason why there isn't tons of space to absorb the increase... but we do know reality. The company is simply on spin control citing parks being overcrowded. Over and over again, it's only about one thing, the bottom line. Period. End of story.

 

[MichWolv]

I've refrained from commenting on this thread, largely because the price increase, while huge, isn't astronomical (However, Disneyland's is), and, frankly, I can still afford it if I'm planning to take two trips in a year.

However, by comparison, I can buy Six Flags season passes right now for $65 each. Those are good the remainder of 2015 and all of 2016, at every Six Flags park in the country. They include parking, food and merch discounts, bring a friend free and discounted days, etc. Comparing Disney and Six Flags is, of course, apples and oranges in many ways. But I wonder...is WDW actually 12 times as good as Six Flags?

For another $80, I can add a dining pass that provides two meals and a snack every day, and unlimited soft drinks. Again, the food at Six Flags is inferior to Disney in virtually every way, so the comparison is tough. But for $80 at WDW, that gives me about two days of food if I stick to counter service.

Disney isn't close to getting to the point where I can't afford it. But it's getting close to the point where I honestly have to ask if it's worth it.

 

[MichWolv]

Theme park hours are most days significantly less than they were in the past

Empirically, I don't believe that's actually true. People constantly say it, but the comparisons I've seen show things roughly even.

 

[alphac2005]

Empirically, I don't believe that's actually true. People constantly say it, but the comparisons I've seen show things roughly even.

With all due respect, you're not correct. I only lived there and vacationed there before living in Orlando. We're talking summer blocks with the MK open to midnight or longer on a daily basis, the Studios until 10:30 or 11, extra magic hours keeping the MK open until 1. Epcot with hours that at times went as late as 10:30. It's factual. I could easily drag out a bunch of old guidebooks that have these times published.

 

[FullSailDan]

Yup, costs went up. We're in a really bad place right now economy wise where the Consumer Price Index has gone drastically up for the last 30 years with only a small blip around 2009 when the market dived. Usually this is okay because as the cost of goods goes up, business owners also take in more cash and have more money to spend, companies pay more, and salaries increase.

Bad news time: U.S. wage/salaries are flat. Last year marked the first time we saw a slight increase on the average salary in almost a decade. It still was well below the traditional trend and it is not enough to correct purchasing power. There are less small business owners and more employees at companies that are doing 1 of 2 things: stockpiling cash to survive when another 2008 hits, or paying executives larger salaries.

So you're asking, why did the cost of a ticket to Disney parks go up? And how does the change in CPI effect you? Simple supply and demand. As has been noted in many places, the parks are beyond capacity on a daily basis, the reports of slammed September are true. I remember the days when sept. brought cast members stopping to say hi in the parks and wishing you a magical day. They are long gone. Replaced by a surge in international visitors(they always existed, just not to the current magnitude). And during the summer the parks were so crowded I often felt unsafe traversing main street/castle hub during parades/post fireworks/etc. So Disney has two options:

1. Build more.
2. Raise prices to thin out the crowds and obviously maximize on the opportunity.

Simply adding capacity isn't really plausible in the short term nor sustainable in the long run. Building takes time, yes the original construction time was short for both Land and MK but construction with a blank canvas, no crowding, and states/counties rolling out the red carpet for you make it very easy. These days supply chains are strained in the central florida area, many construction firms are having problems getting qualified subs, and the planning process is much different from the 70's. Compound that with the need to continue operating in the area during expansion and it wont be quick. In the event another economic downturn to the tune of 911 or 08/09 happened, more expansion would mean more financial risk.(Not saying they can't handle it, but Disney has ALWAYS been conservative when it comes to risk exposure and it has paid off)

So the company raised prices. Everyone seems to be hung up on the increased profits they get from this. Meh, companies exist to turn profits and they can't build giant expansions without it. Sure, you're paying for it before it's built, but why get a loan when your customer base supports an increase?

 

[asianway]

It's simple arithmetic. I go x amount of days. An Annual Pass costs y dollars. Divide x into y and decide if it's a good value for you. If not, don't buy it. My suspicion is, most people will still buy. Compared to MYW tix, it's still going to be a value for a vast majority of AP holders.

On that note....The dope(s) spouting off about Lifestylers don't get it. A guy like Brigante goes hundreds of days per year. Is he not gonna purchase an AP that effectively costs him an extra dollar per visit?

Ricky makes more money than you and at this point it's a job for him. Not what I'm talking about hell pay no matter what assuming his pass isn't comped.

 

[xdan0920]

Ricky makes more money than you and at this point it's a job for him. Not what I'm talking about hell pay no matter what assuming his pass isn't comped.

Just used his name because it comes up a lot. Not sure how much he actually makes. But my point was, Lifestylers go every week. This increase isn't going to impact that.

 

[MichWolv]

With all due respect, you're not correct. I only lived there and vacationed there before living in Orlando. We're talking summer blocks with the MK open to midnight or longer on a daily basis, the Studios until 10:30 or 11, extra magic hours keeping the MK open until 1. Epcot with hours that at times went as late as 10:30. It's factual. I could easily drag out a bunch of old guidebooks that have these times published.

How long ago (intended not as a challenge, but for information).

I just pulled up hours from 2002. MK open till 9 or 10 all summer (EMH would have been until 1 some days). Epcot open until 9 every day (EMH until midnight), DMGM until 9, 9:30, 10.

Contrast with 2015, MK until 11, 12, or 1, Epcot until 9, and DHS until 10 virtually every night in June and July.

 

[Horizons '83]

Yup, costs went up. We're in a really bad place right now economy wise where the Consumer Price Index has gone drastically up for the last 30 years with only a small blip around 2009 when the market dived. Usually this is okay because as the cost of goods goes up, business owners also take in more cash and have more money to spend, companies pay more, and salaries increase.

Bad news time: U.S. wage/salaries are flat. Last year marked the first time we saw a slight increase on the average salary in almost a decade. It still was well below the traditional trend and it is not enough to correct purchasing power. There are less small business owners and more employees at companies that are doing 1 of 2 things: stockpiling cash to survive when another 2008 hits, or paying executives larger salaries.

So you're asking, why did the cost of a ticket to Disney parks go up? And how does the change in CPI effect you? Simple supply and demand. As has been noted in many places, the parks are beyond capacity on a daily basis, the reports of slammed September are true. I remember the days when sept. brought cast members stopping to say hi in the parks and wishing you a magical day. They are long gone. Replaced by a surge in international visitors(they always existed, just not to the current magnitude). And during the summer the parks were so crowded I often felt unsafe traversing main street/castle hub during parades/post fireworks/etc. So Disney has two options:

1. Build more.
2. Raise prices to thin out the crowds and obviously maximize on the opportunity.

Simply adding capacity isn't really plausible in the short term nor sustainable in the long run. Building takes time, yes the original construction time was short for both Land and MK but construction with a blank canvas, no crowding, and states/counties rolling out the red carpet for you make it very easy. These days supply chains are strained in the central florida area, many construction firms are having problems getting qualified subs, and the planning process is much different from the 70's. Compound that with the need to continue operating in the area during expansion and it wont be quick. In the event another economic downturn to the tune of 911 or 08/09 happened, more expansion would mean more financial risk.(Not saying they can't handle it, but Disney has ALWAYS been conservative when it comes to risk exposure and it has paid off)

So the company raised prices. Everyone seems to be hung up on the increased profits they get from this. Meh, companies exist to turn profits and they can't build giant expansions without it. Sure, you're paying for it before it's built, but why get a loan when your customer base supports an increase?

Well said... its just a very hard concept for people to get past since it directly impacts their wallet. Disney loves people like me who can't commit to an AP but still goes 2 to 3 times a year and spends a sizable amount.

 

[BrianV]

I confess I didn't read every post here, but I'm wondering whether this is a precursor to the tiered myw tickets that were being discussed a while back. With gold, silver, etc passes, seems like the obvious extension would be to make tickets that way too. And if so, might be worth buying whatever tickets you might want in the future now.

I'm not an ap holder at wdw. Our travel plans never made that worth while (2 to at most 4 days a year). Interestingly I am at UO where the passes pay for themselves in one short trip (the powerpass anyway). I suspect however, that when universal follows suit I will drop that too.

My desperate hope is that if prices are raised, one benefit will be lower crowds. But I doubt that will happen either...

 

[Chernaboggles]

I think the mistake a lot of us are making is that we're applying airline thinking (frequent flyers are the most valuable and therefore should be treated best) to WDW.* APs may be a steady income stream for WDW, but since other streams are already stronger than they can handle, they don't need to make a fuss over people who come often. Perhaps in the past they needed to make nice with APs to maintain revenue, but that's obviously not true anymore. Disney is making an educated guess that out of state AP holders (the group taking the biggest hit from WDW increases) can both afford the extra cost and are big enough fans to keep paying it. Not an unreasonable assumption. They know they'll lose some, but probably not enough enough to matter. Even in the unlikely event that all the current APs decided not to return, those costs will be offset by long-absent people coming back to see new attractions as they open.

By raising the prices now they're getting the outrage-fest out of the way early. Once they start opening new restaurants and attractions, the price increase will only be mentioned within the context of the additions. That's a good way to give the impression that while prices did rise, value is increasing exponentially as something new opens every few months.

I'm an out of state AP holder and not thrilled about the price increase or the loss of low-crowd times, but I can see where it would be sound tactics from Disney's point of view.

*Disneyland is a different story. Hitting the local APs so hard seems risky to me, they must be very confident in their overall numbers to hit them with that kind of increase all at once.