Big changes coming to Annual Passes

[lazyboy97o]

The cost of entertainment has been increasing far more than the rate of inflation for quite a while now. $100 sounds crazy for a one day ticket to those of us that used to pay $10 but if you consider that it is less than a good seat at a baseball game or a bad seat at a pop concert it really is nowhere close to being out of market.

Very few people are going to make any such comparison. And even if they were, there would be no need to suddenly reverse course unless there are indicators that the value is now lacking.

 

[Astro Blaster]

The thing that burns me the most is that these increases come immediately and without warning. You should at least get a few weeks to lock in the current deals if you'd like.

For example, I bought an annual pass this year for the first time and had no clue about the TiW deal. I found out about it after my latest trip, while it would have paid for itself if I had known beforehand. I figured I'd buy it when I got to WDW next month, but now it "magically" increases in price from $100 to $150?! That's a pretty sleazy scheme if you ask me. Even the stupid local train service tells you months in advance if a price hike is coming.

 

[AEfx]

The cost of entertainment has been increasing far more than the rate of inflation for quite a while now. $100 sounds crazy for a one day ticket to those of us that used to pay $10 but if you consider that it is less than a good seat at a baseball game or a bad seat at a pop concert it really is nowhere close to being out of market.

I can't speak to sports and that whole obsession, which truly is a unique ball of wax, but as I said on the last page - concert prices have actually gone down. Because they did the same thing that WDW is doing - they upped and upped the prices, and people stopped going. Yet, now they have reduced prices, and overall revenues have gone up, and more people are going who buy concessions and overpriced T-shirts and the like.

The people that could afford to go to concerts when big acts had a minimum ticket price of over $100 even for the nosebleed seats, was a well that ran dry rather quickly which is why you see them now offering much cheaper seats because the bodies just weren't there to repeatedly see the same acts at the super-premium prices.

That's what it looks like is happening here - with prices going up so astronomically across the board, the people willing to pay that aren't the same people that want to come back year after year.

 

[Cmdr_Crimson]

For AAA Members I took a look at their site since you can purchase passes there..The site is still selling them as Standard and Premium passes unless it changes within a few days...But, as of right now with sales tax you can get the standard Annual pass for $669.87...

 

[Baltar]

That would be ESPN. But ESPN and ABC are lumped in the same division, Media Networks. Parks and Resorts are a solid #2 behind them.

And if you've watched a college football game anytime recently on ESPN, they've got some ridiculous ad inventory every game.

Oh I know ESPN is 1 and Theme Parks are two correct? I was mainly referring to "how easy" it is to make a hit ABC show. Sarcasm firmly in tact.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Oh I know ESPN is 1 and Theme Parks are two correct? I was mainly referring to "how easy" it is to make a hit ABC show. Sarcasm firmly in tact.

Been a long day for all of us.... Did you read the quotes by Chapek in the WSJ? Tiered pricing is definetly coming.

 

[AEfx]

For AAA Members I took a look at their site since you can purchase passes there..The site is still selling them as Standard and Premium passes unless it changes within a few days...But, as of right now with sales tax you can get the standard Annual pass for $669.87...

Since those are vouchers, they will still work - so if I were in the market for one, I'd be grabbing that ASAP.

 

[Baltar]

Been a long day for all of us.... Did you read the quotes by Chapek in the WSJ? Tiered pricing is definetly coming.

Yep I did which although I'm in the teaching profession and moved a bit higher than just a teacher salary, I'm certain my time off will mean higher prices. Yeah and really Disney has made things pretty clear that squeezing every last dime is their goal. How much longer until deluxe guests get 10 FP+ or earlier reservation windows.

 

[alphac2005]

I'm not sure when you grew up, but honestly anywhere around adult age or older, frankly we just didn't have this same type of exposure to the brand. We didn't have 2, 24-hour disney only channels, on-demand entertainment, and an endless availablity to cheap-to-produce and distribute shows. Children's entire style and delivery of entertainment is different now then when we were kids.

I'd argue that the actual theme parks are fairly low on totem pole when it comes to focus and revenue. I've said for a long time, that WDW is a resort first and a theme park second. TV shows are cheap to produce and distribute being they own the networks and not pitching to a major network. TV movies like the Descendants and Teen beach movie are getting more eyeballs then if they were forced to be shown through a movie theater and look at the residual revenue they are generating—from advertising, to clothing and merchandise.

You can complain about business all you want, but the amount of resources it takes to operate a theme park for a day are staggering—Attraction, food and maintenance CM's, product supply, electricity and facilities, insurance. You can make 1 show for a fraction of the cost and run it over and over again for free all while generating new passive advertising revenue and licensing income.

Its not evil business, its math.

Quickly: I have children, they have no loyalty to the Disney brand even though there is so much Disney content today. They have not been indoctrinated with the theme parks and it makes a huge difference. Contrary to the official company narrative, Walt Disney saw the theme parks as not only for quality entertainment, or as the story goes for his daughters, rather as the ultimate branding experience.

Second, with all due respect, having extensive knowledge of owning a successful business for quite a long time, quick lectures about business costs aren't needed by me. Would you care for me to breakdown how The Walt Disney Company's merchandising costs are at near record adjusted lows and profit margins are absolutely sky high now and how the process works? I assume not.

 

[AEfx]

I really wish they had let Photopass be an "add-on" rather than being forced to buy something I don't want and have no need for. Of course, this will help add revenue to Entertainment's bottom line as photopass is part of Entertainment.

Interesting way of manipulating the numbers: forcing people to buy something they dont necessarily want.

But in truth, I don't even know if it's that - it's simply something that costs Disney little to no money yet looks like a big "benefit" because of how overpriced their photopass is to begin with.

They aren't going to be paying more photographers, and the costs of the additional download bandwidth are really nothing when you look at the flash-heavy Disney sites to begin with.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Yep I did which although I'm in the teaching profession and moved a bit higher than just a teacher salary, I'm certain my time off will mean higher prices. Yeah and really Disney has made things pretty clear that squeezing every last dime is their goal. How much longer until deluxe guests get 10 FP+ or earlier reservation windows.

Dunno.

All I know is that I have two trips planned. One for this December and one for when SWL opens. Other than that, Disney simply isnt a priority anymore.... Theyve hit my tipping point.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Can you show me where you are coming up with tiered pricing "is proven to please more than not"?

If you are going to an NFL game, you don't expect luxury box pricing across the board do you? If you go to a big concert, you don't expect Front Row prices across the board, do you? Likewise, at these events, Parking runs much higher than WDW at around $35 on average.

People like choices, which is why tiered pricing has always worked in business, across many different kinds of business'. Maybe this article will spell it out for you... http://summitevergreen.com/why-tiered-pricing-is-the-only-way-to-price-your-product/

 

[TpaBrad]

So I have been a passholder for a few years and I just renewed again but went with seasonal passes this year. After looking at the blackout dates the dates blacked out were pretty much the ones that we never went on, so it saved me a bunch of money. I kept one pass as full season though for parking. Another reason I went seasonal is because I heard the prices were going up a while ago, and just couldn't see us spending the increased price again for another year.

So with the changes, even though I already purchased the passes do I now get free parking on the seasonal pass or am I locked in on them for no parking for another year? Only reason I ask is because I am meeting some family up next week and would like to have my other half ride in the car with them with her pass so they don't have to pay the parking. If no one knows I'll give them a call this wee and ask.

Thanks!

 

[Baltar]

Dunno.

All I know is that I have two trips planned. One for this December and one for when SWL opens. Other than that, Disney simply isnt a priority anymore.... Theyve hit my tipping point.

I'm with ya. I have the 10 day trip in a few weeks. I had flirted with upping to APs because I wanted a last look at Osborne lights, then 3 day weekend trips to coincide with my wife running the Princess 1/2 Marathon in February and me running the Dark Side 1/2 Marathon in April. Then I figured "what the heck" we'll go in June as well.

We have 4 kids ranging from 5 to 16. So I thought about it and had decided we would get APs. Then this news came. I cancelled my 4 day trip in December I had booked a room for. I told my wife we would just go for the weekends for our races and not go to the parks. Now I've changed my mind on June. We're going out west now. (quick turn around in one day I know. haha)

We'll go in 2017 since my oldest will graduate from high school then but that's the next one. I'm sure it doesn't matter to them haha but it matters to me. I'm not gonna throw a tantrum. I'm just readjusting my entertainment priorities.

 

[glvsav37]

Quickly: I have children, they have no loyalty to the Disney brand even though there is so much Disney content today. They have not been indoctrinated with the theme parks and it makes a huge difference. Contrary to the official company narrative, Walt Disney saw the theme parks as not only for quality entertainment, or as the story goes for his daughters, rather as the ultimate branding experience.

Second, with all due respect, having extensive knowledge of owning a successful business for quite a long time, quick lectures about business costs aren't needed by me. Would you care for me to breakdown how The Walt Disney Company's merchandising costs are at near record adjusted lows and profit margins are absolutely sky high now and how the process works? I assume not.

I wasn't looking to offend, just pointing out that the Disney now vs the Disney we grew up with has changed. And I feel that anyone who is offended by these price increases because of nostalgia reasons is looking at it from the wrong side of the mickey bar.

Today, Disney is a media company and resort destination, with a really cool group of theme parks.

 

[alphac2005]

I can't speak to sports and that whole obsession, which truly is a unique ball of wax, but as I said on the last page - concert prices have actually gone down. Because they did the same thing that WDW is doing - they upped and upped the prices, and people stopped going. Yet, now they have reduced prices, and overall revenues have gone up, and more people are going who buy concessions and overpriced T-shirts and the like.

The people that could afford to go to concerts when big acts had a minimum ticket price of over $100 even for the nosebleed seats, was a well that ran dry rather quickly which is why you see them now offering much cheaper seats because the bodies just weren't there to repeatedly see the same acts at the super-premium prices.

That's what it looks like is happening here - with prices going up so astronomically across the board, the people willing to pay that aren't the same people that want to come back year after year.

Yes, the old entertainment keeps getting more expensive line just doesn't hold water any longer. Concert prices have gone down significantly over the past several years and even sports teams have changed their business models. A lot of teams have seen higher published game ticket prices, but they now offer countless discounts and promotions to most games. Our local MLB team had a team in town where it was their highest tiered pricing on paper, however, with the huge amount of promotions that they run, we were able to buy tickets as cheap as they were 15 years ago.

The excuses have to end by people trying to sprinkle pixie dust on this situation.

 

[bhg469]

I really wish they had let Photopass be an "add-on" rather than being forced to buy something I don't want and have no need for. Of course, this will help add revenue to Entertainment's bottom line as photopass is part of Entertainment.

Interesting way of manipulating the numbers: forcing people to buy something they dont necessarily want.

Just like adding parking to all tiers. It makes the price hike more justifiable but like some saod, one person in the family would buy the one that includes parking and the rest would buy a multi day pass.

 

[AEfx]

If you are going to an NFL game, you don't expect luxury box pricing across the board do you? If you go to a big concert, you don't expect Front Row prices across the board, do you? Likewise, at these events, Parking runs much higher than WDW at around $35 on average.

Again, I can't speak to sports and that crazy - the amount people spend is just insane and I don't understand it.

With parking in particular, but also these comparisons in general - you are talking a one-time several hour event versus a week's vacation. It's not so directly comparable as you are making it.

As to concerts, though, that's PRECISELY what was happening. They were charging what were Front Row prices for the nosebleed seats. And it backfired, which is why ticket prices have gone back down. The top acts, like Madonna (who like her or not, has had the highest grossing tours year after year) were charging over $100 for the worst seats three or four years ago. Now, those seats sell for half that. The people willing to pay those prices weren't the same people who wanted to go to her concerts year after year. The other top acts have all had similar circumstances. This is much like what I think we will see with WDW.

People like choices, which is why tiered pricing has always worked in business, across many different kinds of business'. Maybe this article will spell it out for you... http://summitevergreen.com/why-tiered-pricing-is-the-only-way-to-price-your-product/

That article is more about exactly what we are talking about - eeking every last cent out regardless. And unlike the article suggests, WDW isn't offering a substantially "cheaper" alternative. They are raising prices up so high it's not low, middle, high, it's high, higher, and OMG are you kidding.

This is one reason that Universal is doing so well - they are simply turning into not only the producers of the best attractions, but they also are looking like a much more cost effective alternative, and one that doesn't take an entire week to "do" properly.

 

[alphac2005]

I wasn't looking to offend, just pointing out that the Disney now vs the Disney we grew up with has changed. And I feel that anyone who is offended by these price increases because of nostalgia reasons is looking at it from the wrong side of the mickey bar.

Today, Disney is a media company with a really cool group of theme parks.

I think you're missing the point, this isn't about nostalgia, this is about dollars and cents gone haywire. When a business over the course of only five years has now priced out a significant amount of their audience and it's based upon padding profit margins and numbers, that's the issue. Disney continues to offer a lesser product by the year, month, day, whatever, yet they have a price trajectory that doesn't match their product or reality.

In my prior career, I was in the television industry, and Disney's main revenue driver has become television and film. There's a problem there, it's cyclical. Disney's number one driver of profit is the revenue from ESPN carriage costs and there is complete destabilization in the industry that has only begun and it many in the business are extremely concerned about the the long-term implications of cord cutting, sliced and diced packages, etc. The theme parks have always been a stable and highly profitable piece of the income pie and tends to cover 20-25% of the company's profits.

The correct way to look at it is that The Walt Disney Company is an entertainment conglomerate anchored by their highly profitable theme park business that always provides a stable foundation of profit. They still can't get their act together with interactive, so they've merged divisions all in an effort to mask fiscal weakness in that end of business. Merchandising is huge, but Disney runs a giant licensing operation as they produce next to nothing in terms of consumer products outside of what they have manufactured for the parks. I can tell you from industry stories, that's a mess of a division to deal with as well.

 

[doctornick]

Considering Iger has made franchise buying his main edict during his reign, it makes the importance of the parks even greater in indoctrinating children into the Disney brand for life. You start pricing out mom and dad, you start to lose that generation. My love of Disney stemmed from the parks, not The Disney Channel or VHS. The ultimate branding tool is going to be boxed out for many.

That may have been your experience, but I think that it's worth noting that in addition to the parks, a lot of people got exposure to/love of the Disney brand due to Disneyland/Wonderful World of Disney/etc. on TV as well as the animated films that were frequently re-released even before home video existed.