Big changes coming to Annual Passes

[AEfx]

Upgrading question: if someone has what is now a "silver" pass and when it comes time to renew they want a "gold" do they still get the renewal price? Or because it is a "better" ticket they have to pay the full price?

Unknown until someone tries it - that said, I think even if it doesn't automatically happen Guest Services would do it for you, particularly if you are going up the chain and not down.

 

[AEfx]

The problem is that there aren't enough 1% 'ers to have this type of business plan be economically viable long-term. The end game here is nuts. I agree with all that what you've said.

Exactly, and the true 1%ers wouldn't be caught dead at WDW anyway...while we view it as a "premium" resort, that's simply compared to other theme parks. Even the most luxurious parts of WDW are nothing in comparison to what true luxury accommodations are, yet they charge like it is.

I was talking to a truly well-off person not long ago, who has school-age kids, about Epcot and WS, who said "Why in the world would I pay that kind of money to go show my kids fake Disney countries when I can take them to see a few real ones for not that much more?"

 

[alphac2005]

$800 for the most basic non-resident offering is going to have a real impact - and I presume that's why it's being done. They are actively trying to discourage AP holders, no question. The bean counters have decided that AP holders are not worth it to keep as customers. What their little spreadsheets can't quantify are things like how folks like me who were loyal AP holders for years were walking talking billboards for them, and how much money we really spent on the real drivers of profit at WDW, of which admission really isn't the most major.

Considering Iger has made franchise buying his main edict during his reign, it makes the importance of the parks even greater in indoctrinating children into the Disney brand for life. You start pricing out mom and dad, you start to lose that generation. My love of Disney stemmed from the parks, not The Disney Channel or VHS. The ultimate branding tool is going to be boxed out for many.

I've said it many times before, but I'll say it again, we are seeing the sickness of the American corporation in a microcosm here. What is wrong with big business is right before our eyes.

 

[alphac2005]

Exactly, and the true 1%ers wouldn't be caught dead at WDW anyway...while we view it as a "premium" resort, that's simply compared to other theme parks. Even the most luxurious parts of WDW are nothing in comparison to what true luxury accommodations are, yet they charge like it is.

I was talking to a truly well-off person not long ago, who has school-age kids, about Epcot and WS, who said "Why in the world would I pay that kind of money to go show my kids fake Disney countries when I can take them to see a few real ones for not that much more?"

I've known many of those types and that's dead-on. A Disney "luxury" or "deluxe" resort are very loosely used terms. I can argue that I can get better quality and service at many Homewood Suites.

 

[AEfx]

Considering Iger has made franchise buying his main edict during his reign, it makes the importance of the parks even greater in indoctrinating children into the Disney brand for life. You start pricing out mom and dad, you start to lose that generation. My love of Disney stemmed from the parks, not The Disney Channel or VHS. The ultimate branding tool is going to be boxed out for many.

I've said it many times before, but I'll say it again, we are seeing the sickness of the American corporation in a microcosm here. What is wrong with big business is right before our eyes.

I'm the same. Why do I own every single Disney animated film released on both Blu-ray and DVD? Even though, truth be told, I haven't sat and watched many of them since I bought them? I think you'll find me more typical or not in that regard when it comes to long-time posters here. It all goes back to my love of the parks...I have no specific attachment to the Disney brand, it's that the Disney brand offered the best and most amazing, advanced theme park experiences.

Now, though, not so much...Universal has come out on that front so strongly, that WDW really isn't the place to get the most premiere impressive attractions anymore. Will Star Wars change that? I hope to all hell...but I won't believe it until I'm on the attractions themselves.

 

[glvsav37]

I have not read the whole thread, and while yes, this is a very singular view of these tiers, I actually kind of like them.

Before I get jumped on for saying "these work for my family" understand that I often say that WDW is so big and people tour so differently that it is impossible to make 1 size fits all changes. Esp when it comes to the FP+ changes, while it works for some, our family does not find it useful. That said....

We can only visit in the summer (from NY) but buy AP's b/c we leapfrog visits. So we will but an AP in august on trip 1 and then travel before it expires on trip 2. With this structure, the Gold ticket works perfectly for us, b/c now I'm not paying for other times that i'll never use. Plus we always buy the PhotoPass/memory maker, so including this absorbs that $150+/year into the savings.

Plus as a DVC member, its nice to see there are still some larger benefits in store for us. So many park and resort-centric perks have been in limbo or gone over the last few years.

 

[Chezman1399]

So as an informational thing. Yesterday I upgraded to the Premium Pass from my annual pass. Today with the addition of photo pass to the platinum plus version that's out now I upgraded to that. The difference yesterday from renewal AP to renewal premium was $106 and the Premium to Plat Plus was $75. As someone who has been adding Memory Maker lately it made sense since the only difference between the passes was the addition to 365 days of memory maker for half the price of buying it once. My phone isn't letting me go back, but it was renewal price for all 3.

 

[Next Big Thing]

He's the one who came up with the tiered pricing. He's the one who gets the blame.

It's not as if he pioneered tiered-pricing. All he did was come up with a pre-existing idea which is proven to please more than not.

People like choices. The problem here is it was implemented poorly, with minimal benefits separating the tiers besides entry to the parks.

 

[AEfx]

I have not read the whole thread, and while yes, this is a very singular view of these tiers, I actually kind of like them.

Before I get jumped on for saying "these work for my family" understand that I often say that WDW is so big and people tour so differently that it is impossible to make 1 size fits all changes. Esp when it comes to the FP+ changes, while it works for some, our family does not find it useful. That said....

We can only visit in the summer (from NY) but buy AP's b/c we leapfrog visits. So we will but an AP in august on trip 1 and then travel before it expires on trip 2. With this structure, the Gold ticket works perfectly for us, b/c now I'm not paying for other times that i'll never use. Plus we always buy the PhotoPass/memory maker, so including this absorbs that $150+/year into the savings.

That's great, because you are a DVC member.

For the general public, however, this was an across the board price increase of an extreme level.

 

[glvsav37]

My love of Disney stemmed from the parks, not The Disney Channel or VHS. The ultimate branding tool is going to be boxed out for many.

I've said it many times before, but I'll say it again, we are seeing the sickness of the American corporation in a microcosm here. What is wrong with big business is right before our eyes.

I'm not sure when you grew up, but honestly anywhere around adult age or older, frankly we just didn't have this same type of exposure to the brand. We didn't have 2, 24-hour disney only channels, on-demand entertainment, and an endless availablity to cheap-to-produce and distribute shows. Children's entire style and delivery of entertainment is different now then when we were kids.

I'd argue that the actual theme parks are fairly low on totem pole when it comes to focus and revenue. I've said for a long time, that WDW is a resort first and a theme park second. TV shows are cheap to produce and distribute being they own the networks and not pitching to a major network. TV movies like the Descendants and Teen beach movie are getting more eyeballs then if they were forced to be shown through a movie theater and look at the residual revenue they are generating—from advertising, to clothing and merchandise.

You can complain about business all you want, but the amount of resources it takes to operate a theme park for a day are staggering—Attraction, food and maintenance CM's, product supply, electricity and facilities, insurance. You can make 1 show for a fraction of the cost and run it over and over again for free all while generating new passive advertising revenue and licensing income.

Its not evil business, its math.

 

[Baltar]

Um... just look at the bottom line at Disney and you tell me which division is making the most money... it ain't ABC that's for sure.

 

[glvsav37]

That's great, because you are a DVC member.

For the general public, however, this was an across the board price increase of an extreme level.

I understand, and thats why I prefaced it the way I did. I don't know what the former AP costs were b/c we always got them for a discount through DVC. But that said, I laid out enough money for the DVC purchase that it would take many years to offset the cost difference between the general vs DVC AP costs. So its all relative.

 

[PhotoDave219]

It's not as if he pioneered tiered-pricing. All he did was come up with a pre-existing idea which is proven to please more than not.

People like choices. The problem here is it was implemented poorly, with minimal benefits separating the tiers besides entry to the parks.

Everything seems to be poorly implemented anymore.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Um... just look at the bottom line at Disney and you tell me which division is making the most money... it ain't ABC that's for sure.

That would be ESPN. But ESPN and ABC are lumped in the same division, Media Networks. Parks and Resorts are a solid #2 behind them.

And if you've watched a college football game anytime recently on ESPN, they've got some ridiculous ad inventory every game.

 

[lazyboy97o]

While yes the overall issue exists, when you compare WDW to other entertainment products, the increase is astronomical. @ParentsOf4 would know more exact numbers, but from what I can tell the cost to visit WDW has roughly doubled in the past 10 years between admission, resort rooms, and food.

Looking at something like concerts, which also had their own dramatic rise but now have had to pull back because folks stopped going, should be a warning for them (concert tickets hit a peak in 2012, but have dropped dramatically, almost to the average a decade ago). Particularly today when Universal is such a viable and increasingly more economical option.

There is a point, somewhere, crazy as it may sound, that WDW will suffer if they continue to increase prices. Not in AP's, but in general. The audience they are going for now are those that are the faux-well off - the ones that have two parents and three $40K+ cars in the drive way, a million dollar home they owe 900K on, basically those that live beyond their means and miss a couple of paychecks and are on their way to bankruptcy.

Because those folks don't generally last - and the WDW vacation will be the first to go - Disney can only go so high up the chain because culturally, truly wealthy people view a theme park vacation as a low-class proposition that they aren't going to pay true luxury vacation prices for, because they know what actual luxury is (and make no mistake, nothing at WDW, not even Grand Flo, etc., is anywhere near actual luxury).

I really do think we may be on the cusp of this general reaction against Walt Disney World. The last few changes in what came with an Annual Pass have been reductions, such as children prices disappearing or discounts being lowered. It has been a long time since Walt Disney Workd added to the benefits.

 

[AEfx]

It's not as if he pioneered tiered-pricing. All he did was come up with a pre-existing idea which is proven to please more than not.

Can you show me where you are coming up with tiered pricing "is proven to please more than not"?

I'd argue that the actual theme parks are fairly low on totem pole when it comes to focus and revenue.

That's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the people who repeatedly go to WDW - is it because "it's Disney" or because of the quality of the parks?

 

[glvsav37]

Um... just look at the bottom line at Disney and you tell me which division is making the most money... it ain't ABC that's for sure.

???? according to this "Networks" make up 43% of the total revenue, and that includes Disney Channel and other company owned networks. ABC may be struggling sa a single channel, but it is in a very crowded peer group and all basic channels are struggling.

Yes, theme parks are second at 31%, but understand that it is spread out across multiple locations. WDW is only a small part of it when you factor in DL, Paris, Shanghai, etc.

Edit...sorry, I don't mean to make this a revenue focused discussion, just a by product of someone mentioning corporate greed at the park level. ....carry on.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I really wish they had let Photopass be an "add-on" rather than being forced to buy something I don't want and have no need for. Of course, this will help add revenue to Entertainment's bottom line as photopass is part of Entertainment.

Interesting way of manipulating the numbers: forcing people to buy something they dont necessarily want.

 

[Marlins1]

I really do think we may be on the cusp of this general reaction against Walt Disney World. The last few changes in what came with an Annual Pass have been reductions, such as children prices disappearing or discounts being lowered. It has been a long time since Walt Disney Workd added to the benefits.

The cost of entertainment has been increasing far more than the rate of inflation for quite a while now. $100 sounds crazy for a one day ticket to those of us that used to pay $10 but if you consider that it is less than a good seat at a baseball game or a bad seat at a pop concert it really is nowhere close to being out of market.

 

[glvsav37]

That's not what we are talking about. We are talking about the people who repeatedly go to WDW - is it because "it's Disney" or because of the quality of the parks?

Understand, but I think the 2 go hand in hand. Someone mentioned How they got their disney fix growing up, and I was simply arguing that we cant compare the landscapes the way the brand is today.

I feel that most people (not us classic die hard's with it in our blood) go to Disney b/c it is pushed in front of them 24-hours a day through Disney Channel and our kids bed sheets, and everything. Many are going to appease their kids, but that audience is the one trip every 3-5 years. Disney Co has to do a lot of work to capture them to fill the gaps with other casual visitors.

Thats why the media networks are such a large part of their marketing and focus. Once the casual family makes the reservation, they have their money, whether an specific attraction is functioning correctly or not. Focus on the next reservation.