News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[MisterPenguin]

Every park that’s opened so far has been a one day loss.

And yet, since those other parks opened, attendance at all WDW parks increased on average year over year.

So, what is that "one day loss" you talk of? What does that mean? How does it manifest itself?

And what you and so many others keep refusing to see: EU is going to eat into USO and IoA as much as it will into WDW. For the first few years at least.

Each WDW park after MK was built initially ate into MK's attendance. But then attendance at MK bounced back.

Potterlands no longer have an 8 hour wait just to get into the land.

 

[Dranth]

Every park that’s opened so far has been a one day loss. Universal opening their third park is a huge step, because as WDW knows, 3 parks elevates Universal to a full week trip. No more day or two to go to MK. I think it’s going to hit harder then you think.

Maybe there is something wrong with me but Universal, even with EU, does not look like a full week visit. The two current parks can be done in 1 day with express pass and 2 without. EU is going to add another half day park ride wise that will likely take a full day for the first year while everything is still new. So, while I could see it taking a day, we are still only taking 2-3 days for all three Universal parks and that is if someone doesn't choose to drop US or IOA instead of a Disney park.

I admit this could just be me but serious questions to the people who think this is going to make a big difference. Why is EU different than previous Universal parks that did nothing to slow the ever-increasing attendance at Disney? How is it going to capture the demos that Disney dominates like older visitors, parents with young ones and childless couples?

If Disney closed two thirds of their hotels, bulldozed the Magic Kingdom, razed Blizzard Beach, set most of Disney Spring on fire, took a wrecking ball to the entirety of DVC, and degraded their in park food another couple of steps then they would be roughly equivalent to what Universal will have on offer once EU is done.

I'm just not convinced it will have the long term impact people are expecting but I'd love to be wrong about that because it is great for all of us if Universal and Disney have to fight for our vacation dollars.

 

[drizgirl]

Maybe there is something wrong with me but Universal, even with EU, does not look like a full week visit. The two current parks can be done in 1 day with express pass and 2 without. EU is going to add another half day park ride wise that will likely take a full day for the first year while everything is still new. So, while I could see it taking a day, we are still only taking 2-3 days for all three Universal parks and that is if someone doesn't choose to drop US or IOA instead of a Disney park.

I admit this could just be me but serious questions to the people who think this is going to make a big difference. Why is EU different than previous Universal parks that did nothing to slow the ever-increasing attendance at Disney? How is it going to capture the demos that Disney dominates like older visitors, parents with young ones and childless couples?

If Disney closed two thirds of their hotels, bulldozed the Magic Kingdom, razed Blizzard Beach, set most of Disney Spring on fire, took a wrecking ball to the entirety of DVC, and degraded their in park food another couple of steps then they would be roughly equivalent to what Universal will have on offer once EU is done.

I'm just not convinced it will have the long term impact people are expecting but I'd love to be wrong about that because it is great for all of us if Universal and Disney have to fight for our vacation dollars.

You can't do a quality visit in 1 day, even with EP. Our last visit was 2 days and we missed a lot.

And my understanding is that while guest spending is up, my understanding is attendance is still about 20% lower than pre-pandemic. In a time when travel is up all over the place.

People assume there's a never ending line of people waiting in line to visit Disney. That's just not the case. And the truth is Universal is tapping into the nostalgia of today's young adults. I don't know that Disney is doing that as well as they used to.

 

[Movielover]

The two current parks can be done in 1 day with express pass and 2 without. EU is going to add another half day park ride wise that will likely take a full day for the first year while everything is still new. So, while I could see it taking a day, we are still only taking 2-3 days for all three Universal parks

Am I just getting old or does this sound absolutely exhausting lol?

Is this how you get between attractions?

Lol all jokes aside there's probably a lot that would be missed by trying to do all 3 (not to mention the water par) in 2 days. Plus if you want to enjoy Citywalk as well. I think there is plenty to take up 3 or 4 days.

 

[Tha Realest]

. And the truth is Universal is tapping into the nostalgia of today's young adults. I don't know that Disney is doing that as well as they used to.

I’d venture to guess the Minions/Illuminations/Dreamworks/Nintendo/Harry Potter/Jurassic Word stuff is a bit more relevant to younger kids than some of Disney’s recent offerings.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

I’d venture to guess the Minions/Illuminations/Dreamworks/Nintendo/Harry Potter/Jurassic Word stuff is a bit more relevant to younger kids than some of Disney’s recent offerings.

I’ve always maintained that Universal has better IP than Disney. Disney was just better at making theme parks… until recently.

 

[doctornick]

Longer park hours could alleviate the stress on the infrastructure by staggering arrivals and departures

Or having multiple fireworks shows in the evening or a light parade at night (especially one running twice as well)

 

[Drdcm]

They seriously need to have more high capacity rides. Constant motion like HM or SE. large capacity boats like PotC or IaSW.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

They seriously need to have more high capacity rides. Constant motion like HM or SE. large capacity boats like PotC or IaSW.

Isn't it wild how neither DHS or DAK have anything like this? The closest is Kilimanjaro Safari which can theoretically handle 3,000 people an hour, but those slow dark rides at EPCOT and MK sure do move people.

 

[UNCgolf]

You can't do a quality visit in 1 day, even with EP. Our last visit was 2 days and we missed a lot.

And my understanding is that while guest spending is up, my understanding is attendance is still about 20% lower than pre-pandemic. In a time when travel is up all over the place.

People assume there's a never ending line of people waiting in line to visit Disney. That's just not the case. And the truth is Universal is tapping into the nostalgia of today's young adults. I don't know that Disney is doing that as well as they used to.

I think part of the issue is the different attraction styles between Disney and Universal. Universal has very few attractions I actually enjoy riding -- when I went, with express pass, we could have been on every attraction I like across both parks in one day with no problem. Outside of the HP areas, there's not a ton of interesting themed spaces to visit either that could suck up more time. Epic Universe might change that, but from what we know about it thus far it seems like more of the same in terms of attraction styles (and there's nothing wrong with that; plenty of people love them).

My guess is a lot of people who enjoy Disney enjoy things about Disney that Universal only offers in much smaller portions, so it's very possible for those people to do all of Universal that interests them in a couple of days.

 

[fgmnt]

Disney was hurt by Harry Potter. Since then, Universal has continued to gain ground forcing a big attraction building boom by Disney. I'm looking forward to Disney's delayed response to Epic Universe in 2029.

The ground gained as a percentage of the total pie has thus far largely been offset by the growth of the industry as a whole. How everything will shake out post COVID has yet to be realized, but Universal is not taking money from Disney any faster than Disney is growing year over year.

 

[Drdcm]

I think part of the issue is the different attraction styles between Disney and Universal. Universal has very few attractions I actually enjoy riding -- when I went, with express pass, we could have been on every attraction I like across both parks in one day with no problem. Outside of the HP areas, there's not a ton of interesting themed spaces to visit either that could suck up more time. Epic Universe might change that, but from what we know about it thus far it seems like more of the same in terms of attraction styles (and there's nothing wrong with that; plenty of people love them).

My guess is a lot of people who enjoy Disney enjoy things about Disney that Universal only offers in much smaller portions, so it's very possible for those people to do all of Universal that interests them in a couple of days.

My issue with Universal is that almost everything makes me ill. I don’t do well with simulator/screen based options and can only handle mild rollercoasters. I can do like one screen based ride a day, so most universal options are off limit.

I realize this is a ME issue though. Just why I prefer Disney and can’t really get the same experience down the street.

At universal, I like ET, Hagrids, Mummy, Jurassic Park, Dudley’s, and Kong for my one screen ride.

 

[Dranth]

You can't do a quality visit in 1 day, even with EP. Our last visit was 2 days and we missed a lot.

And my understanding is that while guest spending is up, my understanding is attendance is still about 20% lower than pre-pandemic. In a time when travel is up all over the place.

People assume there's a never ending line of people waiting in line to visit Disney. That's just not the case. And the truth is Universal is tapping into the nostalgia of today's young adults. I don't know that Disney is doing that as well as they used to.

One day can be pushing it depending on what you are interested in and admittedly, it has been awhile since we have been there. Our last visit was 2019, so maybe things have changed some but we did pretty much everything we wanted in 1 day and used day 2 for stuff we didn't have a lot of interest in but figured why not, maybe we would like it more this time. At the end, we would have been fine without the second day but I can see how a lot of people would like to have it.

Agreed on the limit to the number of people waiting to visit Disney. There is most certainly a limit and they are going to hit it if they don't start thinking about the guests more, I just don't know if we have come close to reaching it yet. Disney is still pulling in record profit from the parks quarter after quarter and according to their 10-Q attendance is still ticking upwards.

Universal will certainly get the young adult/teens group because of the thrill ride factor but I am not sure the nostalgia angle will play very much into it, or at least think it will be very effective. In terms of EU, Nintendo has potential but is a kids ride, one bad ride and a maybe good coaster? We'll know how good Donkey Kong is before EU opens but the rest are known quantities at this point. Universal monsters is based on movies from the 1940s. How to Train Your Dragon is the closest area to Disney in my mind in terms of appeal to a broad age range and while those movies did well, all three combined pulled in roughly what the first Frozen did on it's own.

Potter is Potter and will do well across the board but, and this is just speaking for me personally here, I really hope this is a much better ride than Forbidden Journey, which gives me a headache and Gringotts, which just isn't very good. Hagrid's level or better please!

I don't know. Universal still feels like a weekend trip to me while Disney feels like a vacation. Here's hoping Universal proves me wrong because I would love to eat crow on this one.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I think the truth in the Uni/Disney battle is nostalgia & ride systems.

Universal is clearly targeting young adults/teens with their intense rollercoasters. Disney has been playing catch up on his aspect of the game for a few years now. To be honest, with the opening of Tron at MK I think they can and will chill out with rollercoaster/big thrill attractions for a few years.

Disney has the nostalgia factor no matter which way you slice it and dice it. Yea Mario may be popular, but he doesn’t have the combined star power and hold on culture that the entire Disney franchises hold, Princesses, Pooh, Mickey, Marvel, etc. I think Potter will continue to be Universal’s saving grace.

With that all being said, Disney shouldn’t lie down and give up, mostly because the opening of a third park at Universal will cause them to continue to loose days (from guests) to Universal.

 

[Dranth]

Am I just getting old or does this sound absolutely exhausting lol?

Is this how you get between attractions?

Lol all jokes aside there's probably a lot that would be missed by trying to do all 3 (not to mention the water par) in 2 days. Plus if you want to enjoy Citywalk as well. I think there is plenty to take up 3 or 4 days.

Fair, that is some of it but I think it is more that Express Pass is that good. Pretty much immediate, front of the line to every ride except Hagrid's when we were there last as VelociCoaster wasn't open yet. Other than Hagrid's I think out longest wait was 5 minutes.

 

[FigmentFan82]

LOL, they gave it to me for a $1.99 (each month) for 3 months. You don't know this because they don't give the deals to loyalists, that will buy anything Disney gives them.

Plus people get it for free with certain packages, I forget which ones and I don't care to look it up.

If you got it "free" from a cell plan or something of the like, then it's subsidized. Just cuz you're not paying for it doesn't mean someone else isn't.

3 whole months, wow!

 

[J4546]

My issue with Universal is that almost everything makes me ill. I don’t do well with simulator/screen based options and can only handle mild rollercoasters. I can do like one screen based ride a day, so most universal options are off limit.

I realize this is a ME issue though. Just why I prefer Disney and can’t really get the same experience down the street.

At universal, I like ET, Hagrids, Mummy, Jurassic Park, Dudley’s, and Kong for my one screen ride.

Im the same way, screen based motion sims and coaster make me sick, and thats a lot of Universals rides unfortunately. But also some Disney rides as well, Star tours, Smugglers Run, Space Mountain, Goofys Sky School....all are a no go for me.

USF is meh at best imo, but I still def like IOA. Its a great park with enough non screen based and rollercoaster rides I can spend most of the day in it.

 

[UNCgolf]

My issue with Universal is that almost everything makes me ill. I don’t do well with simulator/screen based options and can only handle mild rollercoasters. I can do like one screen based ride a day, so most universal options are off limit.

I realize this is a ME issue though. Just why I prefer Disney and can’t really get the same experience down the street.

At universal, I like ET, Hagrids, Mummy, Jurassic Park, Dudley’s, and Kong for my one screen ride.

My issue is that I find most simulator/screen rides uninteresting -- none of the ones at Universal do much for me, including Forbidden Journey (the non-screen parts are good but it spends way too much time on the broom flight simulator, which I thought was boring). They can sometimes give me motion sickness (FJ didn't the first time I rode it but did the second), but that's not really my problem with them. At Disney, I've never been a big fan of Star Tours and think Smuggler's Run is terrible. I do enjoy Flight of Passage and Soarin', but they're not my favorite attractions and I wouldn't wait very long to ride either.

Coasters don't usually make me sick, but the sheer physical thrill isn't that exciting for me. It's fun, but nowhere near as fun as a highly detailed/themed ride where I'm engaged beyond the physical thrill.

E.T., Revenge of the Mummy, and Jurassic Park River Adventure are my three favorite rides at Universal, so we're clearly similar there (I haven't been on Hagrid's). I enjoyed attractions like Jaws, Kongfrontation, and even Earthquake and Twister more than most of what they've built since.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I think the truth in the Uni/Disney battle is nostalgia & ride systems.

Universal is clearly targeting young adults/teens with their intense rollercoasters. Disney has been playing catch up on his aspect of the game for a few years now. To be honest, with the opening of Tron at MK I think they can and will chill out with rollercoaster/big thrill attractions for a few years.

Disney has the nostalgia factor no matter which way you slice it and dice it. Yea Mario may be popular, but he doesn’t have the combined star power and hold on culture that the entire Disney franchises hold, Princesses, Pooh, Mickey, Marvel, etc. I think Potter will continue to be Universal’s saving grace.

With that all being said, Disney shouldn’t lie down and give up, mostly because the opening of a third park at Universal will cause them to continue to loose days (from guests) to Universal.

Mario absolutely has an equal or larger hold on culture than all of the franchises you just listed.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Mario absolutely has an equal or larger hold on culture than all of the franchises you just listed.

I disagree and the financials would as well. Pooh, Mickey and Friends, and Star Wars as franchised have grossed over $60 billion dollars (each). MCU, Princesses, and Potter have grossed over 30 billion (each). Mario and its associated characters have grossed 7 billion. It doesn’t help that the land they are building has one not so great attraction and most of the fun interactive aspects of it require the purchase of a $40 wristband