Beluga death at Sea World

Mickey81

Mickey81

Well-Known Member
CaptainAmerica said:
Seriously? His eyes were burned by chlorinated water? SeaWorld forced him to become addicted to painkillers? SeaWorld has no soul? These are the most transparently ridiculous accusations I've ever read. I'm no SeaWorld apologist (never been to the place), but forgive me for not taking the word of a drug-addled lunatic with an axe to grind and a book to sell.
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Easy Cap....while I agree that this guy has a lot of suspicions, and I agree there's probably a lot more to the the whole story. The point is, that when you add it to all the other information about Sea World, that there is probably some truth to it. If it wansn't for everything else you could chaulk everything up to over the top disgruntled employee, but with Sea Worlds reputation I think there is probably some truth to it, with a lot of over the top thrown in. Just my opinion. Count yourself lucky as not visiting Sea World.
 
O

opshannon

Member
Why or how would an orca trainer have eyes burned by chlorinated water? Don't orcas live in salt water? I'm not trying to credit or discredit anyone or anything. I'm just puzzled by this.
 
The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Mickey81 said:
Here is a link about chlorine in the water.https://www.thedodo.com/seaworlds-chlorine-sting-affec-467929274.html
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Great link. Indeed there seems to be a complete disconnect between the public image SEA so carefully cultivates and the actual reality of having to keep large ocean mammals. They do not swim in sea water. They swim in a chlorinated chemical cocktail that keeps the water clear for the human spectator.

Spikes in chlorine concentrations can be especially troublesome for both whales and trainers. Former Seaworld trainer John Hargrove spent time working at Marineland Antibes in France and told me about a chlorine overdose there that was so intense it seemed to prevent the killer whales from opening their eyes, and the skin on their heads and backs started peeling off. Another trainer’s eyes were burned so badly that he had to wear bandages that completely covered his eyes and shut out all light. According to Hargrove, he wasn’t allowed to open his eyes until more than a week had passed for fear he risked permanent blindness.​

Orca and dolphin tank water is dangerous and harmful to both cetacean and human.


And it gets worse. Guests have no idea that many sea lions that have been captured to display for commercial purposes...erm...'that have been rescued', have lost eyesight or are outright blind.

Pinnipeds, like sea lions and walruses, apparently do not have the effective eye protection sported by killer whales, and routinely suffer from premature cataracts, corneal disease, and lens issues.​
 
919Florida

919Florida

Well-Known Member
If you have questions why dont you ask Seaworld yourself? Instead of believing articles from former employees or articles on the very credible dodo website? Go to this page to find out how to ask the questions you want answered http://ask.seaworldcares.com/ There are already a lot of questions asked and answered if you are wanting to hear another side of the story.
 
Mickey81

Mickey81

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
Why not ask SeaWorld? Because SEA answers with corporate spin like all big business?

Why not ask McDonalds if their food is healthy?
Why not ask Philip Morris if cigarettes are bad for you? :oops:
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Well said...there is not a corporation that doesn't put a spin on information and manipulate facts. Sea World just has more of a need to do so then some others. SEA set up this website because they have a need to try to convince people of something besides what is playing out in the media. The website they created is propaganda, nothing more.
 
919Florida

919Florida

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
Why not ask SeaWorld? Because SEA answers with corporate spin like all big business?

Why not ask McDonalds if their food is healthy?
Why not ask Philip Morris if cigarettes are bad for you? :oops:
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So yet you will believe everything John Hargrove and the other former trainers will tell you or the people behind blackfish will tell you? Why? They are all in it to make money and dont say they are not. What makes SeaWorld's answers corporate spin? Oh I know what it is. Its just because YOU choose not to believe them.
 
919Florida

919Florida

Well-Known Member
Mickey81 said:
Well said...there is not a corporation that doesn't put a spin on information and manipulate facts. Sea World just has more of a need to do so then some others. SEA set up this website because they have a need to try to convince people of something besides what is playing out in the media. The website they created is propaganda, nothing more.
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Oh Mickey81 and you think Disney has not spun anything? Disney hides behind a mouse. They are a large corporate villain out there. Disney is far from this magical happy place they like to make it sound
As for why did they put out the askseaworld.com website. No one knows SeaWorld better than SeaWorld themselves. The animal care team and the veterinarians that work there are there to answer the questions asked by guests.
As for a funny example of the two faced person John Hargrove is. In 2010 John Facebooked:
Very proud to be a Seaworld trainer. In light of very difficult circumstances this year, our company has once again proven why Seaworld is the leader in the world.
Then he goes on to say:
Its staggering the amount of money they have spent and are spending for in depth reviews, facility design changes and how we the trainers have adapted with our current, and changing every day, restrictions, to continue to give the best killer whale show in the world. no other marine facility in the world could afford a fraction of the amount of money they are spending.
As for the biggest piece of propaganda its that so called documentary blackfish.
 
Mickey81

Mickey81

Well-Known Member
919Florida said:
Oh Mickey81 and you think Disney has not spun anything? Disney hides behind a mouse. They are a large corporate villain out there. Disney is far from this magical happy place they like to make it sound
As for why did they put out the askseaworld.com website. No one knows SeaWorld better than SeaWorld themselves. The animal care team and the veterinarians that work there are there to answer the questions asked by guests.
As for a funny example of the two faced person John Hargrove is. In 2010 John Facebooked:
Very proud to be a Seaworld trainer. In light of very difficult circumstances this year, our company has once again proven why Seaworld is the leader in the world.
Then he goes on to say:
Its staggering the amount of money they have spent and are spending for in depth reviews, facility design changes and how we the trainers have adapted with our current, and changing every day, restrictions, to continue to give the best killer whale show in the world. no other marine facility in the world could afford a fraction of the amount of money they are spending.
As for the biggest piece of propaganda its that so called documentary blackfish.
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I said there was NOT a corporation that does not spin information...I did NOT put "except Disney" in quotations. I'm not sure how you got that I thought Disney was exempt from that or why they are even being brought up since this has nothing to do with them. However I will say it again....every corporation spins information....including Disney.
 
919Florida

919Florida

Well-Known Member
Mickey81 said:
I said there was NOT a corporation that does not spin information...I did NOT put "except Disney" in quotations. I'm not sure how you got that I thought Disney was exempt from that or why they are even being brought up since this has nothing to do with them. However I will say it again....every corporation spins information....including Disney.
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Just assuming that your profile picture with mickey means you are a big supporter and stand with them. I am sorry if I was incorrect. But I also don't understand how one can be so against a company that has animals in human care when the very company they support also has animals in human care. Being Animal Kingdom and EPCOT. Disney's dolphins in the Seas Pavilion never even get to see natural sunlight or outside air. And lets not forget Animal Kingdom made the list for one of the worlds worst place to be an elephant. Just one example below.

IDA also alleges that poor decisions made by Disney World’s Animal Kingdom led to the untimely death of two elephants. “In July, pregnant Moyo and her unborn calf died as a result of birth complications after being shipped from Disney’s Animal Kingdom to The National Elephant Center in Florida,” the group wrote. “Zoos generally do not transfer pregnant females because of the great stress of travel and potential complications.”

The thing is why fight this stuff its crazy. The animal rights activists and SeaWorld should join together in a common interest of protecting our animals in the world. Preserving their natural habitats and keeping their homes clean. It sad so much effort is focused on hating SeaWorld and then SeaWorld has to fight to defend its self when its money should be spent helping animals. Just my opinion on this one. So much is wasted on this fight
 
BuddyThomas

BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
919Florida said:
Oh Mickey81 and you think Disney has not spun anything? Disney hides behind a mouse. They are a large corporate villain out there. Disney is far from this magical happy place they like to make it sound
As for why did they put out the askseaworld.com website. No one knows SeaWorld better than SeaWorld themselves. The animal care team and the veterinarians that work there are there to answer the questions asked by guests.
As for a funny example of the two faced person John Hargrove is. In 2010 John Facebooked:
Very proud to be a Seaworld trainer. In light of very difficult circumstances this year, our company has once again proven why Seaworld is the leader in the world.
Then he goes on to say:
Its staggering the amount of money they have spent and are spending for in depth reviews, facility design changes and how we the trainers have adapted with our current, and changing every day, restrictions, to continue to give the best killer whale show in the world. no other marine facility in the world could afford a fraction of the amount of money they are spending.
As for the biggest piece of propaganda its that so called documentary blackfish.
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But you said previously that you work for Disney, this "corporate villlian" as you now call them. Hmmmmm.
 
919Florida

919Florida

Well-Known Member
BuddyThomas said:
But you said previously that you work for Disney, this "corporate villlian" as you now call them. Hmmmmm.
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Not sure what you are getting at with this. But yes I work at Disney and thats what helped open my eyes to the truth of Disney. You chose to not believe it thats up to you.
 
BuddyThomas

BuddyThomas

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
919Florida said:
Not sure what you are getting at with this. But yes I work at Disney and thats what helped open my eyes to the truth of Disney. You chose to not believe it thats up to you.
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Like I've said before, I'm sure that everyone in all the other boards here would greatly welcome your behind the scenes knowledge of Disney. Try joining us there sometimes. It's fun. You do not have to limit yourself as the self-appointed guardian of SEA. In the meantime, instead of spinning this thread into an anti-Disney rant (and believe me, I have major issues with how EPCOT's dolphins are housed as well), why not address some of the points that Empress raised such as the chlorine in the water, blind sea lions, etc.

Maybe we would not be "hating on Sea World" so much if there were not so many awful stories about them just tumbling out day after day.

If they would take an example from the Ringling Brothers playbook, I think a lot of people would start supporting them again.
 
Mickey81

Mickey81

Well-Known Member
919Florida said:
Just assuming that your profile picture with mickey means you are a big supporter and stand with them. I am sorry if I was incorrect. But I also don't understand how one can be so against a company that has animals in human care when the very company they support also has animals in human care. Being Animal Kingdom and EPCOT. Disney's dolphins in the Seas Pavilion never even get to see natural sunlight or outside air. And lets not forget Animal Kingdom made the list for one of the worlds worst place to be an elephant. Just one example below.

IDA also alleges that poor decisions made by Disney World’s Animal Kingdom led to the untimely death of two elephants. “In July, pregnant Moyo and her unborn calf died as a result of birth complications after being shipped from Disney’s Animal Kingdom to The National Elephant Center in Florida,” the group wrote. “Zoos generally do not transfer pregnant females because of the great stress of travel and potential complications.”

The thing is why fight this stuff its crazy. The animal rights activists and SeaWorld should join together in a common interest of protecting our animals in the world. Preserving their natural habitats and keeping their homes clean. It sad so much effort is focused on hating SeaWorld and then SeaWorld has to fight to defend its self when its money should be spent helping animals. Just my opinion on this one. So much is wasted on this fight
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I do very much enjoy the time I spent at Disney. I won't deny that. I enjoy it for a number of reasons, mostly because it's something that my entire family enjoys together. They do a tremendous job of allowing you to escape reality, and immerse you in a fantasy world. I know that they are a corporation that does this to get a share of the money I spent on vacation. In my opinion they provide a quality product, and a huge part of that is the CM's, like you say you are, who do a fantastic job of creating an atmosphere I really enjoy. I'm always exceptionaly thankful to all the CM's who work very hard to do this. I'm not blind to the fact that Disney could be doing things better, but in my opinion they are not on the same level as SEA. I do fully agree with you, I would love to SEA and animal rights groups get serious about working together to do what's best for the animals. I hope SEA does this, because I think ultimately they are going to have to continue to be sucessful and it would look great for them to be proactive about it. I would give major kudos to them to bring in a group to work with and be open with, especially if they did it on their own, before they had to for survival. I just don't defend Disney blindly, and I don't think anyone can defend SEA without realising they have fault in this, maybe not the same degree I think they do, but they do have some. If SEA can show me they are serious, work with animal rights groups, and be more transparent, then I will go back and give them another chance. My only other problem with them is their employees seemed more miserable then the captive animals, but maybe it was just a bad day for everybody there, and I would give that a second chance. I really hope SEA can get it together.
 
919Florida

919Florida

Well-Known Member
BuddyThomas said:
Like I've said before, I'm sure that everyone in all the other boards here would greatly welcome your behind the scenes knowledge of Disney. Try joining us there sometimes. It's fun. You do not have to limit yourself as the self-appointed guardian of SEA. In the meantime, instead of spinning this thread into an anti-Disney rant (and believe me, I have major issues with how EPCOT's dolphins are housed as well), why not address some of the points that Empress raised such as the chlorine in the water, blind sea lions, etc.

Maybe we would not be "hating on Sea World" so much if there were not so many awful stories about them just tumbling out day after day.

If they would take an example from the Ringling Brothers playbook, I think a lot of people would start supporting them again.
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First of all I don't have a passion for Disney so I really have no interests in getting involved in debates or posting stories about it. My passion is for SeaWorld ad that's what I fight for. I also was not trying to get on an ant Disney rant I was just posting about how its silly to be anti SeaWorld and pro Disney. This thread is already so off topic anyways

As for chlorine in the water they have very small amounts to keep the water clean. The main ingredients are fresh water and solar salt. The pools are not filled with chlorine like these activist sites want us to believe. As for sea lions and their vision. sea lions regularly go blind in the wild and in human care, but for the most part it’s a gradual loss of sight associated with age. Sea lions like us also get eye infections, cornea problems, and or cataracts.

And if they do anything like Ringling Brothers did that would be the death of SeaWorld. The animals is what makes SeaWorld special and unique. Without the animals they are no different. So hopefully that will never happen
 
BuzzKillington

BuzzKillington

Active Member
If SeaWorld's captive orcas are suffering so much, then why are they breeding faster than the Southern Resident populations of killer whales? As a matter of fact, SW's orca population is growing to where they will soon need to open up another park. Sounds like a successful project to me.
 

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