Avatar Land...think Disney regrets the idea?

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Ginnifer Goodwin's eager to see Zootopia brought into the parks from some interview up on one of the sites WDWMagic blocks. Think a conversion of Pandora into the Rainforest District could work?
 

KDM31091

Well-Known Member
I am a bit surprised with them moving forward with Avatar because it seemed like a really big movie when it was released but pretty quickly faded away. I always hesitate to think that attractions/lands based entirely on a movie (that's not a classic) are a great idea. The staying power just may not be there. It happens even to attractions that are generally considered "good". For example, how many young children have really seen A Bug's Life, so that they know the characters during It's Tough to be a Bug? More than likely, very few. Still a good attraction, but the movie isn't as relevant to young audiences at this point.

This is why I am leery of an entire land based off of a movie that was popular, but is not really mentioned anywhere anymore.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
They had 3 years from buying the rights until they broke ground. They could have cancelled at any point along the way without being financially invested. If they regretted it they had an easy out. If they suddenly decided this year that they regret the idea then yes, it's too late to turn back.
I think it's highly possible they had some sort of contract for the Avatar IP that made it difficult to back out. In fact I've always figured James Cameron's motivation in all this is to build the perception of Avatar as this Harry Potter or Star Wars type franchise. I think this was heavily used as bargaining to get the production of the other movies moving along (which even still seem to be suffering from setbacks), this enabled James Cameron to reference the fact that it's going to be a theme park land to give credibility to the idea of Avatar as a franchise not just a one time hit. I think this is the reason Avatar land was announced so early, I suspect James Cameron pushed for the announcement. In short I think Cameron was/is playing the studio and Disney against each other as the reason Avatar will be so great. They also would have worried about how the cancellation of Avatar would have looked. How would stockholders have reacted to the cancellation of The highly hyped Avatar, especially if that happened before the announcement of Star Wars land.
 

lebeau

Well-Known Member
I think it's highly possible they had some sort of contract for the Avatar IP that made it difficult to back out. In fact I've always figured James Cameron's motivation in all this is to build the perception of Avatar as this Harry Potter or Star Wars type franchise. I think this was heavily used as bargaining to get the production of the other movies moving along (which even still seem to be suffering from setbacks), this enabled James Cameron to reference the fact that it's going to be a theme park land to give credibility to the idea of Avatar as a franchise not just a one time hit. I think this is the reason Avatar land was announced so early, I suspect James Cameron pushed for the announcement. In short I think Cameron was/is playing the studio and Disney against each other as the reason Avatar will be so great. They also would have worried about how the cancellation of Avatar would have looked. How would stockholders have reacted to the cancellation of The highly hyped Avatar, especially if that happened before the announcement of Star Wars land.

Disney approached Cameron, not the other way around. Cameron said "yes" because it was too good of a deal for him to pass up. But no, he's not counting on a land at Animal Kingdom to prop up his franchise. It's just a bonus project for him. Free money and he gets creative input? Sure, why not?

If Disney wanted out, they could have become inflexible and shoved Cameron away. Kind of like they did with Rowling.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
I think it's highly possible they had some sort of contract for the Avatar IP that made it difficult to back out. In fact I've always figured James Cameron's motivation in all this is to build the perception of Avatar as this Harry Potter or Star Wars type franchise. I think this was heavily used as bargaining to get the production of the other movies moving along (which even still seem to be suffering from setbacks), this enabled James Cameron to reference the fact that it's going to be a theme park land to give credibility to the idea of Avatar as a franchise not just a one time hit. I think this is the reason Avatar land was announced so early, I suspect James Cameron pushed for the announcement. In short I think Cameron was/is playing the studio and Disney against each other as the reason Avatar will be so great. They also would have worried about how the cancellation of Avatar would have looked. How would stockholders have reacted to the cancellation of The highly hyped Avatar, especially if that happened before the announcement of Star Wars land.
I don't think the specifics of the contract were ever disclosed, but based on personal knowledge of similar transactions it was most likely structured as an option. Disney would have paid some upfront lump sum of money for the exclusive theme park rights to Avatar. That would prevent anyone else from developing a land based on the movie. Most likely Disney then had a certain amount of time to start construction. If they failed to start a project the contract would be terminated and Cameron would keep the upfront payment and be free to sell the rights to someone else. At that point Disney would only be out the initial payment. If the project went forward then there would be specific terms relating to additional payments or profit sharing from merchandise. The point is I'm sure Disney has done enough of these type of deals to leave themselves an out.

Part of the reason Avatar was announced early is that it was a third party transaction. It most likely would have been large enough of a deal to be required to be disclosed in their SEC filings. That is also why none of the usual insiders knew about the deal ahead of time.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Disney approached Cameron, not the other way around. Cameron said "yes" because it was too good of a deal for him to pass up. But no, he's not counting on a land at Animal Kingdom to prop up his franchise. It's just a bonus project for him. Free money and he gets creative input? Sure, why not?

If Disney wanted out, they could have become inflexible and shoved Cameron away. Kind of like they did with Rowling.
Well I don't know your connection to the deal and if you were involved than I understand but barring that I highly doubt it's known who approached who. These deals often start over lunch and quick meetings that result in Cameron saying "have your people schedule a meeting and we can work something out".

I also am not claiming any knowledge behind this theory and I don't claim it to be true just speculation. This is often how producers think and so it makes sense to me. The typical movie is born out of a producer getting a shot to pitch his idea. Then before that happens he goes to some big name actor and claims to be working on a movie for said studio asks the actor to look at his script. The producer then gets the actor on board, goes to the studio pitches his movie and says oh by the way we've got said actor on board. The studio says hey we want to make a movie with that actor and green lights the movie.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Well I don't know your connection to the deal and if you were involved than I understand but barring that I highly doubt it's known who approached who. These deals often start over lunch and quick meetings that result in Cameron saying "have your people schedule a meeting and we can work something out".

I also am not claiming any knowledge behind this theory and I don't claim it to be true just speculation. This is often how producers think and so it makes sense to me. The typical movie is born out of a producer getting a shot to pitch his idea. Then before that happens he goes to some big name actor and claims to be working on a movie for said studio asks the actor to look at his script. The producer then gets the actor on board, goes to the studio pitches his movie and says oh by the way we've got said actor on board. The studio says hey we want to make a movie with that actor and green lights the movie.
other than Tom Staggs and Bob Iger absolutely saying they approached JC, multiple times....
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
other than Tom Staggs and Bob Iger absolutely saying they approached JC, multiple times....
Yep, that's pretty well documented. Here's an LA Times article from back in 2011:

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/21/business/la-fi-ct-disney-avatar-20110921

This is towards the end of the article:
The new "Avatar" partnership came about quickly. Disney first approached Cameron this spring, and the deal was signed Saturday.

Cameron said that when Disney Chief Executive Bob Iger called him, "I thought he was a talking about an attraction, but what they have is a much bolder and bigger vision for how to bring 'Avatar' into their world."
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
other than Tom Staggs and Bob Iger absolutely saying they approached JC, multiple times....
That really doesn't mean anything at all. Not saying it isn't true but simply that it doesn't discount my theory which in it self is just speculation. These are complex deals and they don't just walk into the studio and pitch their idea and ask for licensing. Millions of deals start from someone pointing someone in the right direction or someone putting the word out. My speculation is simply based off the fact that James Cameron seems very eager with this project.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Cameron repeated that statement in several interviews as well. He thought they just wanted to do a ride like Universal did with Terminator but they had bigger ideas.
If I were trying to play up my movie franchise to the studio I don't think I would say "I went to Disney and asked them to build a ride for me and they said yes!" I think I would instead go with "I was approached by Disney, I thought they wanted to build an Avatar ride, but turns out it's such a huge franchise they want to build a whole land!". Just saying.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
If I were trying to play up my movie franchise to the studio I don't think I would say "I went to Disney and asked them to build a ride for me and they said yes!" I think I would instead go with "I was approached by Disney, I thought they wanted to build an Avatar ride, but turns out it's such a huge franchise they want to build a whole land!". Just saying.
The story was the same from both sides. It wasn't just Cameron saying this to boost his film. Is it possible that both sides agreed to somehow spin a false story and say Disney reached out to Cameron? Sure, anything is possible, but what would be the point? Why would Iger lie. There's nothing in it for him. It's much more likely that Disney just reached out to Cameron like both sides are saying.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
The story was the same from both sides. It wasn't just Cameron saying this to boost his film. Is it possible that both sides agreed to somehow spin a false story and say Disney reached out to Cameron? Sure, anything is possible, but what would be the point? Why would Iger lie. There's nothing in it for him. It's much more likely that Disney just reached out to Cameron like both sides are saying.
I'm not saying Disney didn't reach out to him, these deals are often far more complex than that, they don't just happen they come out of a lot of back and forth communication as well as back channels. With anything like this it's pretty much impossible to nail down just exactly how it began.
 

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Disney knew what they were getting into in relation the sequels. Cameron has a long history of taking longer then originally expected to make his movies.
But technically, he almost always delivers and wows..
but then. He hasnt made many "sequels" that maintained the WOW factor.. or did he?
 

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