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[mickEblu]

RSR would be just under BatB for me. As great as FOP is, being entirely screen-based does cost it some points in my book.

Even when you consider the Cadillac Mountain range and what it does for DCA or are you strictly taking ride experience? I haven’t been to WDW or any of the foreign parks. I’d imagine some people would agree with you in regards to FOP. Not sure about BatB. With that said while it does have its flaws it does look like it possesses qualities that can’t really be appreciated on video.

 

[mickEblu]

Tower of Terror opened less than 20 years ago.

So they have that. While I prefer the original. It holds its own thank to a rich story and a WOWWWWZAH detail when you are there. My son has it as his favorite version. And I think we have to count it.

Ok no Top 5 ride in the last 18 years lol.

I haven’t been but I think the fact there is a superior version out there kind of knocks it down a few spots. The other rides are unique and pretty much best in their category worldwide.

 

[celluloid]

Ok no Top 5 ride in the last 18 years lol.

I haven’t been but I think the fact there is a superior version out there kind of knocks it down a few spots. The other rides are unique and pretty much best in their category worldwide.

Fair enough.

I also think Monsters Ride and Go Seek is better than any other dark ride Disney was building stateside at the time and arguably better than most they have built still up until the last few years. That opened in 2009.

And other minor and large things among time including Star Tours 2.0 in after Us got theirs.

Soarin' also opened at Disney Sea a few years back, and it can be argued that it is superior to all of the others.

While it has been awhile since an E ticket on the scale of Disney Sea's have blown anyone away, the resort certainly had better than anything the states were doing and it was not neglected like Animal Kingdom post Everest or MGM post Toy Story Mania was.

Not bad for opening arguably the world's best theme park in 2001 and one of the largest natural disasters of our life time slamming their country and economy. And that was long before Covid

 

[mickEblu]

Fair enough.

I also think Mike and Sully to the rescue is better than any other dark ride Disney was building stateside at the time and arguably better than most they have built still up until the last few years. That opened in 2009.

And other minor and large things among.

Soarin' also opened at Disney Sea a few years back, and it can be argued that it is superior to all of the others.

While it has been awhile since an E ticket on the scale of Disney Sea's have blown anyone away, the resort certainly had better than anything the states were doing and it was not neglected like Animal Kingdom post Everest or MGM post Toy Story Mania was.

Not bad for opening arguably the world's best theme park in 2001.

I think Monsters Inc deserves more love.

Not bad at all. The not having a Top 5 in 20 year thing was just something interesting that occurred to me when I was posting something about DL Forward a few weeks ago. Interesting because we all have TDS so high on our list that you’d think they’d have a couple on that list. Just goes to show you what a great start that park got off too. Unlike DCA.

 

[celluloid]

I think Monsters Inc deserves more love.

Not bad at all. The not having a Top 5 in 20 year thing was just something interesting that occurred to me when I was posting something about DL Forward a few weeks ago. Interesting because we all have TDS so high on our list that you’d think they’d have a couple on that list. Just goes to show you what a great start that park got off too. Unlike DCA.

That and its Maintenace and service is still like Disney US was in the 90s.
Not even counting how frequently they update parades and shows. (Shows that are better in every single way to the states' daytime shows)
Plus it just opened things arguably just as cool or stronger than what we have gotten. And that is with the Tsunami of 2011 and Covid.

 

[Consumer]

I think Monsters Inc deserves more love.

Not bad at all. The not having a Top 5 in 20 year thing was just something interesting that occurred to me when I was posting something about DL Forward a few weeks ago. Interesting because we all have TDS so high on our list that you’d think they’d have a couple on that list. Just goes to show you what a great start that park got off too. Unlike DCA.

TDS and Disneyland Paris are two parks that started off near perfect, had a few great new attractions shortly after opening, and then receives almost no love after that.

 

[celluloid]

TDS and Disneyland Paris are two parks that started off near perfect, had a few great new attractions shortly after opening, and then receives almost no love after that.

In their defense, they also needed much less, with the perfect part and utilizing land to the fullest.
Before the Tsunami with TDS, They were getting a new E-ticket/thrill ride level additions every few years to a new amazing park.


I do think Nemo replacing Storm Riders was a mistake. Sad I never saw that one. (went to Japan last year)

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Even when you consider the Cadillac Mountain range and what it does for DCA or are you strictly taking ride experience? I haven’t been to WDW or any of the foreign parks. I’d imagine some people would agree with you in regards to FOP. Not sure about BatB. With that said while it does have its flaws it does look like it possesses qualities that can’t really be appreciated on video.

I'm considering the overall experience, including the show building and queue. RSR definitely has the more impressive show building in the Cadillac Mountains, but BatB beats it handily in the queue and preshow department (there are 4 AAs in the queue alone which could have passed as a show scene on the ride itself).

I was one of the harsher critics of BatB back when the first ride POVs popped up online, and I agree that the in-person experience is considerably better than expected based on the video. It still has some pacing problems, but the motion of the vehicles during these prolonged scenes does help mitigate some of that.

 

[ThemeParkTraveller]

Ok no Top 5 ride in the last 18 years lol.

I haven’t been but I think the fact there is a superior version out there kind of knocks it down a few spots. The other rides are unique and pretty much best in their category worldwide.

Personally, I'd rate the TDS version highest but only when they are running their seasonal overlay with the added drops and effects/show scene.

 

[BrianLo]

In their defense, they also needed much less, with the perfect part and utilizing land to the fullest.
Before the Tsunami with TDS, They were getting a new E-ticket/thrill ride level additions every few years to a new amazing park.


I do think Nemo replacing Storm Riders was a mistake. Sad I never saw that one. (went to Japan last year)

I didn’t mean to start an entire Tokyo thread drift! By no means was or is my argument Tokyo = bad, WDW = good. Just simply there is rose tinted glasses for the products we experience less frequently.

The tsunami really did not cause this significant investment delay though. By 2013 they were breaking attendance records and OLC announced they underestimated the parks ability to preform and went all in on their moderate term investment plan. The new land is the much delayed (though much bigger) product of that capital plan.

Truly this land is 10+ years worth of under realized capital and I don’t think the same perspective would be forgiven by the WDW observers.

I’ve been excited for ‘these plans’ since people thought Pandora was never going to happen, Star Wars was not even under Disney, Pleasure Island was still a thing, literally no internal planning for an Epcot overhaul had been whispered.

Will this product be great? Absolutely… but I’d probably have done things more consistently and earlier than save it all up if it were up to me. Though I know B&TB happened, but we must recall that was the significantly cut down Tokyo Disneyland plan from what we were supposed to get. Truly the capital was all delayed and delayed and shifted to this finale.

 

[celluloid]

I didn’t mean to start an entire Tokyo thread drift! By no means was or is my argument Tokyo = bad, WDW = good. Just simply there is rose tinted glasses for the products we experience less frequently.

The tsunami really did not cause this significant investment delay though. By 2013 they were breaking attendance records and OLC announced they underestimated the parks ability to preform and went all in on their moderate term investment plan. The new land is the much delayed (though much bigger) product of that capital plan.

Truly this land is 10+ years worth of under realized capital and I don’t think the same perspective would be forgiven by the WDW observers.

I’ve been excited for ‘these plans’ since people thought Pandora was never going to happen, Star Wars was not even under Disney, Pleasure Island was still a thing, literally no internal planning for an Epcot overhaul had been whispered.

Will this product be great? Absolutely… but I’d probably have done things more consistently and earlier than save it all up if it were up to me. Though I know B&TB happened, but we must recall that was the significantly cut down Tokyo Disneyland plan from what we were supposed to get. Truly the capital was all delayed and delayed and shifted to this finale.

Tokyo has not raised prices for their product at the same rate, nor a lot of the other situations compared to the ask of stateside parks.

Its also 1/16th(or less?) size of WDW.

It is fair to say you would have wanted things more steadily.
So many of the minor attractions were forgotten. Tower of Terror, Raging Spirits, Sinbad Redo, Toy Story Mania, Nemo Sea Rider redo, Turtle Talk, Big Band Beat, Soarin. All before the most recent Disney park turned 20 and mostly before China's new ventures. A new attraction every four years or less. And that is not even counting the attractions Disneyland got. It also seems like less because it is two theme parks vs four. Certainly, better than WDW's rate save for 2019 to now. Pandemic also affected Asia more than US. That can't be argued, and economy has not been its strongest. Still doing pretty darn well considering.

I could see where the more recent years were slowing down, but that is a sign of the same thing happening with DIsney as a whole happening, not so much specific to Tokyo, as you pointed out. Looks like that is over though with Space Mt likely to rival Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind and Fantasy Springs to be immaculate with faily unique attractions of good design.

Also, this is the best kind of Tokyo Drift.

 

[BrianLo]

Tokyo has not raised prices for their product at the same rate, nor a lot of the other situations compared to the ask of stateside parks.

Its also 1/16th(or less?) size of WDW.

It is fair to say you would have wanted things more steadily.
So many of the minor attractions were forgotten. Tower of Terror, Raging Spirits, Sinbad Redo, Toy Story Mania, Nemo Sea Rider redo, Turtle Talk, Big Band Beat, Soarin. All before the most recent Disney park turned 20 and mostly before China's new ventures. A new attraction every four years or less. And that is not even counting the attractions Disneyland got. It also seems like less because it is two theme parks vs four. Certainly, better than WDW's rate save for 2019 to now. Pandemic also affected Asia more than US. That can't be argued, and economy has not been its strongest. Still doing pretty darn well considering.

I could see where the more recent years were slowing down, but that is a sign of the same thing happening with DIsney as a whole happening, not so much specific to Tokyo, as you pointed out. Looks like that is over though with Space Mt likely to rival Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind and Fantasy Springs to be immaculate with faily unique attractions of good design.

Also, this is the best kind of Tokyo Drift.

Lol it is a Tokyo thread drift. I have zero complaints at all the ways they run the resort. It’s 100 percent a personal experience. I went to Tokyo in 2011 (6 weeks post tsunami) and 2013… so it was very much a I can’t wait to see what they do next situation for me.

Then I waited and waited and waited. But the waiting is finally done. I’m booked for September.

 

[PiratesMansion]

These particular tweets really get at my Tokyo feelings a fair bit, and why there can be at times such a stark divide on Tokyo sentiments within the fandom depending on when they first visited, or what they value in the park experience:



TDR was amazing, mesmerizing, state of the art...and then largely slumbered for a decade, causing people visiting after 2010 or so to increasingly wonder what the hype was all about. Those who visited roughly pre-Tsunami (though it is accurate to say that little was planned investment-wise even at that point) experienced a TDR that appeared to be at the top of its game when DLR and DLP were trying to salvage their failed second gates (with DLP dealing with genuine financial difficulties in the process), WDW likewise did little of note beyond Everest, and Hong Kong was nothing more than a cheap, ignorant Disneyland knockoff that no one wanted. Additionally, the resort and particularly TDS wasn't quite as character-infused as it would become. In that context, TDR was a jaw-dropping vindication that the classic Disney theme park experience was still viable, if only the rest of the parks around the world would get with the program.

People visiting now are coming at the resort from a background and context that is quite different, not helped by the fact that TDR is probably the least "fully open" post-2020, but many are still drawn by the enthusiastic raves of those who visited when the resort was at the head of the class. They're being drawn by the siren songs of a place that doesn't quite exist in the same way, and certainly doesn't exist in the same context.

Additionally, there are vocal English-speaking TDR locals with decent-sized social media followings in a way that I'm not aware of for the other International resorts, who have likewise thrown the flaws of the current OLC theme park experience into stark relief (and some again on the "grass is always greener" aspect: the vast majority of those people would trade the Tokyo parks for the DLR parks as they exist right now over what they have in their backyard).

 

[PiratesMansion]

That and its Maintenace and service is still like Disney US was in the 90s.
Not even counting how frequently they update parades and shows. (Shows that are better in every single way to the states' daytime shows)
Plus it just opened things arguably just as cool or stronger than what we have gotten. And that is with the Tsunami of 2011 and Covid.

The entertainment updates aren't as true as they used to be. To be sure, they still cycle out their primary day parades more frequently than the other parks do, and they have kept Dreamlights current by updating a float or two every few years. But they used to debut impressive seasonal parades every year or two, and here we are with Christmas Stories having played on for almost 10 years, something that would have been unheard of a decade ago.

There has also been a marked change in focus, particularly at TDS. They swapped out vast numbers of excellent entertainment that had little to nothing to do with the characters, or used them incidentally (Mystic Rhythms, Legend of Mythica, BraviSeamo) and replaced them with either original shows that seemingly didn't work at all (Out of Shadowlands) or have turned them into yet another Character Jamboree. There used to be a different set of rules about TDS entertainment, but since then they've thrown them out and put in the sorts of shows that would be right at home next door. Now, it's not that they can't do good shows with the characters, or that a show that thrusts characters front and center can't work at TDS (there were impressive seasonal shows featuring Little Mermaid, Aladdin, etc. early in the park's history), but there's a lot less variety than there used to be.

In their defense, they also needed much less, with the perfect part and utilizing land to the fullest.
Before the Tsunami with TDS, They were getting a new E-ticket/thrill ride level additions every few years to a new amazing park.

Very true. TDS was so well-conceived and put together when compared to the other parks that opened around the same time that it didn't really need new additions in the way the other parks did. But they definitely dragged their feet too long on Fantasy Springs.

I do think Nemo replacing Storm Riders was a mistake. Sad I never saw that one. (went to Japan last year)

Honestly, Storm Riders fit better thematically, but wasn't really any better as an attraction. Even when people were raving about the rest of the park, the enthusiasm for Storm Rider was always a bit more tepid and reserved, deservedly so. It wasn't outright bad, but it was the clear weak link in the park.

 

[celluloid]

I guess that is more or less my side of it.

If one who visited TDS in early years comes back 19 years later and thinks the park should have more than what it does now.

Just imagine what someone who does the same for WDW post 2005. Which is even less with a lot more resources.

 

[BrianLo]

I guess that is more or less my side of it.

If one who visited TDS in early years comes back 19 years later and thinks the park should have more than what it does now.

Just imagine what someone who does the same for WDW post 2005. Which is even less with a lot more resources.

Ya it’s basically that Tokyo (Disney Sea) is largely the same great product that it’s always been. Stagnant, but great.

WDW is a better product than it was 8/9 years ago mostly across the board (in terms of capex, not management).

Tokyo is still > WDW regardless of the delta. The complaint isn’t so much that WDW is not improving, it’s that they let it fall so far behind the standards in the first place.


Though to make this about Disneyland, I actually feel that park has struck the right balance of neither being behind the standard nor letting it atrophy. DCA on the other hand stalled out in 2016.

 

[truecoat]

By quality I meant E ticket. But yeah I don’t see more than two more coasters coming period. Regardless of ticket classification. Probably one E and something like Wandering Oakens.

They can just forget Wandering Oakens, that is one of the lamest rides considering the theming I've ever seen.

 

[BasiltheBatLord]

Ya it’s basically that Tokyo (Disney Sea) is largely the same great product that it’s always been. Stagnant, but great.

WDW is a better product than it was 8/9 years ago mostly across the board (in terms of capex, not management).

Tokyo is still > WDW regardless of the delta. The complaint isn’t so much that WDW is not improving, it’s that they let it fall so far behind the standards in the first place.


Though to make this about Disneyland, I actually feel that park has struck the right balance of neither being behind the standard nor letting it atrophy. DCA on the other hand stalled out in 2016.

This is fascinating in that speaks a lot to Japan as a country in general. A lot of things about Japan are great, but the country has been almost totally stagnant since the bubble burst in the ‘90s and there is deep resistance to change and modernization.

There are many places in Japan (neighborhoods, hotels, tourism resorts etc) that have basically never changed at all since the late ‘80s. It’s like going in a surreal time machine. TDS reminds me of that sometimes as very little of TDS has actually changed since opening (again Fantasy Springs will change some of that).

 

[Animaniac93-98]

And here I am on the opposite side, loving Tokyo Disneyland for having all these things from 1970s Magic Kingdom left intact

Wish it still had Star Jets and the Mickey Mouse Revue.

 

[celluloid]

And here I am on the opposite side, loving Tokyo Disneyland for having all these things from 1970s Magic Kingdom left intact

Wish it still had Star Jets and the Mickey Mouse Revue.

They have the upkeep factor all around the resort too. Not many broken effects or worn paint.

It was amazing how well The Haunted Mansion works when compared to the state the others are in.