News Avatar Experience coming to Disneyland Resort

[MistaDee]

You're using the word "clone" here liberally to fit the list you want to make.

IJA and Dinosaur are the exact same ride in ride system, layout, and ride vehicle, the only difference is the theming. That is very definition of a clone, and many argue Dinosaur is a lesser version.

Same with Mission: Breakout, as when the ride opened at DCA in 2004 it was ToT, a clone even by your definition (again as some argue a lesser version). It wasn't rethemed to Mission: Breakout until 2017. But it doesn't change the fact that it still a clone at its core. And I say that as someone who was on here defending the retheme as making it a different experience. But even I can admit its the same ride just with different ride profiles.

So yeah theming helps try to differentiate between the clones, but doesn't change that they are in fact clones. For example someone who's been on IJA that then goes on Dinosaur will know pretty much every aspect of the ride experience short of the actual dinosaurs.

Make your list, but to say that some of these that are being pointed out aren't clones is not being honest.

I guess we need to be pedantic:
Clone:

• an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical.

• a person or thing regarded as identical to another:
  "successful women don't want to be male clones"

Dinosaur and Indy are completely different stories, that makes them not identical and thus, not a clone. That's the definition, you may need to reexamine how you understand the term.

As someone who has done both Roaring Rapids and GRR in person, I can tell you that the two attractions are not so substantially different in scenery so as to feel like different rides. Dinosaur and Indy don't feel like the same attraction to me, even though they are, because the feel, story, visuals, etc. are sufficiently different. That's not the case with RR & GRR. I went on RR and my overriding thought (other than the pointlessness of building a big animatronic on a rapids ride where the seating configuration all but guarantees that someone will miss it entirely) was "huh, that feels like Grizzly." Then I double-checked by comparing POVs, and sure enough, they're basically the same ride.

Saying a ride isn't a clone because the window dressing is different depends on the situation, and to me, saying that Grizzly and Roaring Rapids aren't clones because of what I feel are relatively superficial theming differences doesn't pass the smell test. They're not different enough to feel like distinct experiences.

If window dressing is all that differed, as others have stated like the difference between Big Thunder rides in Paris vs. Florida, or the difference in Pirates in Florida vs. California then I, as most of the general public understand that to be the same experience.

Just because a ride uses the same layout, the story in Shanghai is completely different story: California Bear Country vs. an unnamed jungle with a GIGANTIC CROCODILE ANIMATRONIC. Hardly window-dressing, I imagine the cost of that thing was quite significant.

Very true, there seems to be some confusion between:

1. Reusing the same ride system (with a different layout and/or theme)
2. Reusing the same ride system and layout (with a different theme)
3. Reusing the same theme (with a different ride system and/or layout)
4. Reusing the same ride system, layout, and theme

In my opinion (and I think this is agreed upon by many others), only the fourth one is what is truly considered "cloning" an attraction.

Everything is Galaxy's Edge is a clone. The original TOT in DCA and at DLP are clones. Both Soarins are clones. Ratatouille is a clone. Tron is a clone.

DL's Indiana Jones and DAK's Dinosaurs are NOT clones. RSR and Test Track are NOT clones. The two U.S. Space Mountains are NOT clones. Hotel Hightower and TOT at DLP are NOT clones.

This is well articulated and I agree up to the space mountain bit, although I'd consider Paris's enough of a departure to merit considering it distinct

If rides are unmistakably similar to the general public, they are clones for me. All TOT's are clones, even if Florida has the original concept and Paris, DCA, and TDS have the 2.0 model and varied storylines. The average person goes - oh, that's the same thing as Tower of Terror in Florida. Same with Space Mountain, Haunted Mansion, Pirates, Big Thunder. They are all slightly different at different parks, but for the general audiences, they are the same rides.

100% agree with the professor here

 

[Disney Irish]

I guess we need to be pedantic:
Clone:

• an organism or cell, or group of organisms or cells, produced asexually from one ancestor or stock, to which they are genetically identical.

• a person or thing regarded as identical to another:
  "successful women don't want to be male clones"

Dinosaur and Indy are completely different stories, that makes them not identical and thus, not a clone. That's the definition, you may need to reexamine how you understand the term.

I understand the term just fine, both inside and outside of the theme park experience, so I don't need to reexamine anything. As I said you make whatever list you want, its all just opinions just like all of us here have. No one here is the "authority" on anything beyond that, our own opinions. So how you want to classify something is completely up to you.

But I can tell you, as someone having seen the plans for IJA in 1992 (story for another time), Dinosaur is identical with everything but the story. Its the reason why Indy replacing Dinosaur makes sense, as they can just keep the same attraction and retheme it and the area to Indy. Story and some elements will be slightly different I'm sure, but again the overall experience will be much the same as IJA.

 

[Kyle’s Dad Sent Me]

It’s an identical track and cars (with a different paint job) but completely different in every other aspect. I would bet most people who ride both in their life, who don’t already know the trivia fact of the identical track, never clock the similarities outside of maybe the ride vehicles.

We live in a world where Transformers and Spider-Man are at the same resort. Average guests don’t notice these things outside the glaringly obvious, like when they ride too many screen rides back-to-back.

 

[Disney Irish]

It’s an identical track and cars (with a different paint job) but completely different in every other aspect. I would bet most people who ride both in their life, who don’t already know the trivia fact of the identical track, never clock the similarities outside of maybe the ride vehicles.

As mentioned there is a reason why it'll be rethemed to Indy here in the near future. So all this talk about its differences is soon to be moot, as it'll then be the same with just slightly different "window dressing" as some call it.

 

[Purduevian]

Fit used to mean "whether or not it fits (thematically or logistically) with what is already in place at DAK.

Fit can still mean that, it just has multiple meanings as a verb and I was not sure which one you were talking about.

1) Be of the right shape and size for (this is the one I took)
2) Fix or put into place (they fit MMRR into Toontown)
3)Be in agreement or harmony with (the one you meant)

 

[denyuntilcaught]

This is such an odd conversation. Dinosaur and IJA use cloned ride systems and layouts, but they as attractions are not clones. M:BO and TOT use cloned ride systems, but are not clones. Reuse of a ride system does not constitute what is a clone - saying that is akin to saying all wooden coasters are technically clones. What makes them distinct is everything else around the mechanics, thus making them distinct attractions.

 

[Professortango1]

This is such an odd conversation. Dinosaur and IJA use cloned ride systems and layouts, but they as attractions are not clones. M:BO and TOT use cloned ride systems, but are not clones. Reuse of a ride system does not constitute what is a clone - saying that is akin to saying all wooden coasters are technically clones. What makes them distinct is everything else around the mechanics, thus making them distinct attractions.

Mission BO uses more than a cloned ride system. It uses a cloned ride. It is TOT with screens out up in the two show scenes. It is a literal overlay. That would be like them leaving HMH up and stating it was a new ride.

All the Castles are different, but I'm still going say to say that all castle parks feature the same basic iconic castle as the centerpiece.

 

[J4546]

My word. I can tell you as someone who has experienced both that it is close enough even if it's not a 100% perfect match. Watch the POVs below; even if the exact sequence of turns is slightly different, it's close enough that it's basically the same ride. At any rate, what do you care? I figured you'd be busy in Toontown, which you've unironically dubbed one of the world's best theme park lands and a dramatic change from what was there before, rather than worrying about the minutiae of a theme park you've never actually been to and have no plans to visit. But at any rate, here's the videos to watch for comparison, because apparently looking for videos is hard:

Grizzly:

Roaring Rapids:

You're welcome!

Fit used to mean "whether or not it fits (thematically or logistically) with what is already in place at DAK.

Exactly. Only a few things are exact, perfect clones of each other, but there's enough similarities between, say, the HMs that most people don't waste so much time splitting hairs between them. They are recognized to be related and to share similar attributes. If a WDWer came to DL during a time when regular HM was closed, would people be more likely to tell them that it's a big deal because the DL Mansion is different or that it's close enough to WDW's that for most people, it's not that big of the deal of a ride to miss? I'd say most would opt for the latter response even if the rides aren't exactly 1:1 of each other. But for whatever reason, this thread has brought out the "WELL AKSHULLY" brigade out of the woodwork.

wow you seem upset. also thanks for the videos! Now I can def tell they arent clones

 

[denyuntilcaught]

Mission BO uses more than a cloned ride system. It uses a cloned ride. It is TOT with screens out up in the two show scenes. It is a literal overlay. That would be like them leaving HMH up and stating it was a new ride.

All the Castles are different, but I'm still going say to say that all castle parks feature the same basic iconic castle as the centerpiece.

I disagree. All that is similar between M:BO and TOT is the ride system and mechanics, of which the screens you mention are a part of. Everything else is quite different. Dinosaur and Indy are not clones, they are just cloned ride systems.

 

[britain]

Strictly speaking mission breakout WAS a clone because it used to be TOT. It has been redecorated away from its former theme and story so that it no longer LOOKS like a clone.

Dinosaur, however was only a cloned ride system.

Now, if they change it into Indy… Does that make it more of a clone???

 

[mickEblu]

Here are my thoughts. TOT at DCA and WDS were clones. They were versions of the original TOT in Florida.

Mission Breakout was formerly a version of the original TOT in Florida. It is now a rethemed version of the original TOT. Replace “clone” with version and all problems are solved.

This is all semantics.

 

[Disney Irish]

Here are my thoughts. TOT at DCA and WDS were clones. They were versions (albeit similar) of the original TOT in Florida.

Mission Breakout was formerly a version of the original TOT in Florida. It is now a rethemed version of the original TOT. Replace “clone” with version and all problems are solved.

This is all semantics.

This is just 4 pages of boredom posts until more information comes out about Avatar in DCA. I don't think it ultimately matters which are clones or not. Agree its all semantics.

 

[britain]

Here here!

So… no avatar news yet huh?

 

[mickEblu]

Here here!

So… no avatar news yet huh?

No but I love how we’re all kind of ahead of the vloggers here. They’re still talking about how Pandora will work at Grizzly Peak. Lol

 

[Consumer]

 

[britain]

More like, ended, but yes.

 

[MisterPenguin]

We need to define "clone" so everyone stops talking past one another...

clone (klōn)​

n.​

1. a thing that has some vague likeness to another thing in some way​

2. a thing that is like another thing exactly in every possible way​

​

.​

 

[Professortango1]

I disagree. All that is similar between M:BO and TOT is the ride system and mechanics, of which the screens you mention are a part of. Everything else is quite different. Dinosaur and Indy are not clones, they are just cloned ride systems.

Ride system, queue, mechanics, ride layout, giftshop, tech, sequence, structure of show scenes. As I said, it would be like calling HMH a new ride. It has new theming, but the rooms and scenes are the same and the progression hasn't changed.

If covering up a practical effect or show scene and replacing it with a projections screen makes it a whole new ride, then Mansion's new WDW finale will give us a BRAND NEW ATTRACTION. YAY. Luckily we also got that new Alice in Wonderland ride a few years back and Hyperspace Mountain magically changes to a new attraction whenever the layover occurs.

Oh my gosh, totally forgot that Indy now counts as a brand new ride thanks to them not wanting to fix the doors.

On one hand, we lost a lot of old rides. But on the plus side, I just discovered that we have so many new attractions that have been created in the past 10-15 years.

 

[J4546]

Yeah I watched the videos and they are 2 totally differently themed rides with slightly different track layouts. And 1 also has a giant animatronic as well but the themeing is way different regardless.


Please stop with these condescending petty weird remarks, you're and adult. I like toontown? ....Why do you bring that up? People are so unhappy and contrarian and ready to be mad about everything nowadays lol.

Let's all just take a break and agree to disagree on what constitutes a clone in our books. To me the river rapids rides in CA and Shanghai are different. That's my opinion no need to argue

 

[PiratesMansion]

Yeah I watched the videos and they are 2 rides with slightly different track layouts

Exactly.