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[truecoat]

I never understood their argument. Let’s say you are staying at one of those hotels on harbor. You had to walk to the intersection to cross the street to get to DL whether there is a crosswalk or a bridge there. How does the bridge change the guests behavior? You are going to walk past the same businesses you would have. Even if you were forced to head back towards Pumba to get back toward Harbor. It’s more inconvenient for the guests but how are the businesses seeing less foot traffic? What am I missing?

When you have to walk all the way around, what's the point of staying "across the street". No one is going to walk around to any of those restaurants to eat in the afternoon.

 

[mickEblu]

When you have to walk all the way around, what's the point of staying "across the street". No one is going to walk around to any of those restaurants to eat in the afternoon.

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I guess I assumed they would provide some sort of street level access (maybe under the bridge) to the new structure/ security screening. Never thought that they had have to walk all the way around.

 

[mickEblu]

The idea is not just for guests who stay on Harbor, but also those that would be staying around the resort that would normally walk past those Harbor businesses to cross the street to Disneyland. By having them go directly to the security screening/bridge if not accessible from Harbor there is no incentive for guests to access any of those businesses.

Basically you'd have almost no foot traffic other than those who are staying at the hotels themselves.

Ok I guess I just assumed that even under the old plan guests would have had some sort of street level access to the new structure/ screening.

 

[mickEblu]

To me it was always more about the hotels on Harbor losing their cash cow of being directly across the street from the Disneyland entrance and people choosing to stay at a hotel somewhere between Disney Way and Katella because they'd now be closer to the pedestrian entrance to the gateway.

This makes sense and likely a big part of why they were against it.

 

[Disney Irish]

You think adding security to the new EGW area would be overkill? There are currently 8 security checkpoints going into the Disney bubble (at varying degree of size), but a 9th is overkill? At some point the Toy Story lot will become something else and the number will be back down to 8. Where was the overkill and added expense opinion when DTD added a new screening area on the southwest side while still keeping the DLH one open on the northwest side? It was never needed before, but an expense choice to split the load.

Overkill in sense that you already have guests coming in from Harbor, so no need to have them both going to separate screening.

DLH screening was never used for DTD as I recall, there was always a separate DTD screening.

Why not have all the Toy Story parking people currently use the Harbor screening?

They did previously, and still do I believe on certain days and times. Also the whole idea was originally that all security screening would be moved off of the Esplanade, but that ended the moment the original EGW project ended. However they had already moved screening for TSL off to the lot and so kept it there.

I can't imagine the new Harbor screening area being that much bigger (if at all) than the current Harbor screening. Have you seen the security lines on Harbor in the morning? Toy Story has the benefit of loading one bus-load of people at a time spreading out the flow of people. The parking structure of 6000 spots won't have that luxury at the EGW. I don't care how big they plan to make the new Harbor screening area, it just won't handle all Harbor hotel guests and the influx of people parking at the EGW without there being 2-hour plus lines waiting for their bag check.

When I stayed at the Clarion on my last trip I specifically used the Toy Story shuttle to go in because it has a shorter wait time on security, and when I got off the bus at the transportation hub and saw the huge line at security that I walked right past, I knew I made the right decision.

The biggest argument for there being two security checkpoints.....one at EGW parking and one on Harbor.....is to split the load and reduce bag check wait time.

I see the point of shorter lines, but for what a max 2 hours? That is a lot of extra headcount for what amounts to less than 10% of operational hours. That is why I think its overkill.

 

[Disney Irish]

Ok I guess I just assumed that even under the old plan guests would have had some sort of street level access to the new structure/ screening.

No, that was the whole heartburn for the Harbor businesses.

 

[mickEblu]

No, that was the whole heartburn with the Harbor businesses.

Ok in that case I can’t blame them. Is that really what Disney was proposing though with no work around like I mentioned? Guests at hotels across the street from Disneyland would have to walk all way to Disney Way and either make two lefts to get screened at the new security/ structure or cross the street at Disney Way and get screened at the current security screening? I can’t imagine this is what Disney was proposing, was it?

 

[Disney Irish]

Ok in that case I can’t blame them. Is that really what Disney was proposing though with no work around like I mentioned? Guests at hotels across the street from Disneyland would have to walk all way to Disney Way and either make two lefts to get screened at the new security/ structure or cross the street at Disney Way and get screened at the current security screening? I can’t imagine this is what Disney was proposing, was it?

Yep, that is what they originally were proposing. Then when there was push back they made some suggestions like maybe the Harbor hotels can add a gate to the back of their property to allow public access. But that never went over very well, which is why Anaheim just said no go and the project was put on hold.

 

[mickEblu]

Yep, that is what they originally were proposing. Then when there was push back they made some suggestions like maybe the Harbor hotels can add a gate to the back of their property to allow public access. But that never went over very well, which is why Anaheim just said no go and the project was put on hold.

Why couldn’t they have had the pedestrians on the east side of Harbor walk back towards the new structure/ security. I don’t see any reason why that couldn’t be possible?

 

[mickEblu]

Why not just leave the cross walk for pedestrians on Harbor and have the bridge only be for guests who parked at the new structure that already went through security? Of course this would require a wall or fence from the end of the bridge to the esplanade. Seems a little more plausible than having two lane traffic on a “narrow” bridge. They could also have the bridge go deeper into the resort to avoid having a huge wall split up the majority of the new entrance off Harbor.

 

[Disney Irish]

Why couldn’t they have had the pedestrians on the east side of Harbor walk back towards the new structure/ security. I don’t see any reason why that couldn’t be possible?

Walk back how using what path?

 

[chadwpalm]

Overkill in sense that you already have guests coming in from Harbor, so no need to have them both going to separate screening.

You'd be doubling the number of people who currently go through the Harbor screening from the Harbor and south hotels with people now coming from the parking garage. How are you not seeing that? You think the Harbor security could handle what it handles now plus people coming in from 6000 parking spaces? They need to be separate just as Toy Story and M&F is separate.

DLH screening was never used for DTD as I recall, there was always a separate DTD screening.

Nope. When Disney decided to expand the security bubble to include DTD, two bag checks were added to western DTD. One in front of the DLH between ESPN Zone and the old Earl of Sandwich, and one on the north side between ESPN and Rainforest.

The one on the west side accommodated DLH guests, PP guests (who didn't try to cut through GCH) and everyone parking in Simba visiting DTD. The north bag check accommodated guests parking for DTD in the north lot (which isn't designated for that anymore) and now for people walking from M&F.

Now there's the southwest entrance that accommodates the Simba and PP peeps, and the west is now primarily for DLH guests (though Simba peeps could still walk up to that one if they want). That's the only thing that's changed.

They did previously, and still do I believe on certain days and times. Also the whole idea was originally that all security screening would be moved off of the Esplanade, but that ended the moment the original EGW project ended. However they had already moved screening for TSL off to the lot and so kept it there.

Yes, they did previously before the security bubble was expanded and that's when they added the Toy Story screening which is EVERY morning until mid-afternoon when the Harbor screening dies down.

I see the point of shorter lines, but for what a max 2 hours? That is a lot of extra headcount for what amounts to less than 10% of operational hours. That is why I think its overkill.

See above. You'd be adding an entire parking garage full of guests to the already nightmare wait that there currently is every morning at the Harbor bag check.

Anyway....I have things to do today. Peace out everyone!

 

[Disney Irish]

Why not just leave the cross walk for pedestrians on Harbor and have the bridge only be for guests who parked at the new structure that already went through security? Of course this would require a wall or fence from the end of the bridge to the esplanade. Seems a little more plausible than having two lane traffic on a “narrow” bridge. They could also have the bridge go deeper into the resort to avoid having a huge wall split up the majority of the new entrance off Harbor.

The whole point is that Anaheim wants to remove the cross walk for pedestrian safety and traffic flow.

 

[mickEblu]

Walk back how using what path?

Under the bridge maybe?

 

[mickEblu]

The whole point is that Anaheim wants to remove the cross walk for pedestrian safety and traffic flow.

I know but it seems pretty safe considering how many millions of people walk across that street every year. Never heard of anything happening have you?

 

[Disney Irish]

Under the bridge maybe?

Not enough room to have both a bridge and keep it open for public access.

 

[mickEblu]

Not enough room to have both a bridge and keep it open for public access.

Hmmm I thought it was wide enough.

 

[Disney Irish]

I know but it seems pretty safe considering how many millions of people walk across that street every year. Never heard of anything happening have you?

Just because it may seem "safe" doesn't mean it is. I've seen people nearly get hit by cars a bunch of times.

Plus again the idea is to improve traffic flow. Without the cross walk you don't need a light and traffic can keep flowing.

Hmmm I thought it was wide enough.

This is the space where the bridge is going on the east side, between the two buildings. Not a lot of room. Basically that whole thing will be taken up by the bridge, no room left for public access.

 

[mickEblu]

This is the space where the bridge is going on the east side, between the two buildings. Not a lot of room. Basically that whole thing will be taken up by the bridge, no room left for public access.

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Do you really need that much more space than a sidewalk? I mean that’s how everyone is getting around now.

 

[Disney Irish]

Do you really need that much more space than a sidewalk? I mean that’s how everyone is getting around now.

You see where that grass is, that was a driveway for the former hotel that was there. And while you don't need that much for a walkway, think about it that is about the size of half the usable space and that's just for that driveway. So even if you took half that driveway size (which is approximately the size of the average sidewalk), that is still a quarter of the usable space that would be needed. Again no real space for a public access point if you want to build a bridge there too.