haveyoumetmark
Well-Known Member
Nowhere in WDWGoof's post does it say that they are stating facts. The beginning of their post clearly states the content of the post is an opinion: "just my two cents"
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Avatar 2 and 3 Delayed??? The Effect on Avatarland at WDW...
- Thread starter Captain Chaos
- Start date
Nowhere in WDWGoof's post does it say that they are stating facts. The beginning of their post clearly states the content of the post is an opinion: "just my two cents"
ctxak98
Well-Known Member
I think there are just as much harry potter haters as there are avatar. I know people who dont like avatar and I know people who dont like Harry. Me personally, Harry potter isnt my favorite BUT I can appreciate the stories and the detail that went into the works of the WWOHP. Theres no denying that this place(if ever built and IM praying it will!) Will be most likely a one of a kind experience like many of disneys rides or attractions. I still feel like we are all Blind to the big picture???I just dont get it....atleast its not another amaerican Idol experience!
ctxak98
Well-Known Member
The way it was written made it seem like the two cents was about the costumes and the "BOTTOM LINE" part was a review of the movie. He didnt say IN my opinion the movie was bad....Idk if it was meant to come off that way but it did...just sayin:lookaroun
ctxak98
Well-Known Member
Yah but How many themepark expansions are about movies that are that well known??? I dont think Disney could even make something right now that would steal thunder from "Harry Potter"....as Much as I want Disney to win...Its going to take time. I went into WWOHP like many people here are tlaking about avatar. I didnt even really want to go because im not a harry potter fanatic at all HOWEVER I did enjoy myself for the most part and had a good time!....from experience I think we need to give it a chance.
haveyoumetmark
Well-Known Member
The statement is subjective in nature and was the content of someone's post on a discussion forum, so it's generally inferred that someone's post is their opinion. It would be awkward to have to explicitly state that you are posting your opinion every time.
haveyoumetmark
Well-Known Member
You're right, I shouldn't even be comparing the two but the way Disney announced it so hastily makes it feel like it's an answer to HP. They don't need to steal HP's thunder, they just need to maintain the parks and keep them fresh with exciting new additions and I don't think Avatar fits the bill. The fact that they rushed into this Avatar thing makes Disney look out of touch. It's weird. I'm not denying that they can probably pull it off and make it very exciting if they try, but the movie to me is expired and unworthy.
Actually, numbers DO matter... People want to tout how popular Potter, Star Wars, and Twilight are, but then want to dismiss Avatar despite Avatar doing more business than any one of the Potter, Star Wars and Twilight movies (sans one Twilight movie selling more DVDs than Avatar)... Numbers don't matter if they disprove your point... But, when stating the fact, numbers do matter...
And as for popularity, let's examine:
Potter has been around for 11 or 12 years, has 7 books which turned into 8 movies, and became more and more popular with each book and movie release...
Twilight has been around for 7 maybe 8 years, has 4 books with a 5th one being a novella as part of the saga that will turn into 5 movies (maybe 6 if that make the novella a movie) and has gotten more and more popular...
Star Wars has been around for 35, has a ton of novels since the release of Star Wars in 1977, and has 6 movies, none of which are based on a book first... spawned a cartoon series and a possible live action TV show (I really hope they do this) and has become more and more popular and has stayed the course...
Avatar: 1 movie not based off a book... looks like one attempt at a novel, two books on the making of and the art of, and biological and social history of Pandora...
Two of the four above started off as books first thus gaining a fan base prior to movies coming out... The movies only increased the fan base (since I am sure there are fans of Potter and Twilight who only seen the movies and haven't read the books like a lot of people do)... And the other two only starting as a movie first... Star Wars as had 35 years to spawn 5 more movies and loads of comic books and novels... Avatar has had only 2 years in the marketplace...
The one thing I can see hurting Avatar ever gaining any traction in becoming a franchise on the same level as Potter, Twilight, and Star Wars is the length of time between Avatar and Avatar 2... The first three Star Wars movies came out 3 years apart from each other... The second trilogy (Episodes 1, 2, and 3) came out 16 years after Jedi and still three years apart from each other.. But by then, Star Wars was already extremely popular...
Each Potter movie came out 1 to 2 years after the other one... The first few Potter books came out 1 year after the previous, then final have of the series came out 2 - 3 years after the previous... With such a short period of time between each book and movie, there was no lag and momentum was able to be carried over from book to book and movie to movie (also doesn't hurt that each book only got better and better)
The same thing can be said for Twilight.. Each Twilight movie came out 1 year after the over... The 4 books were released in a 3 year period... Again, allowing for momentum to continue for the series to pick up steam and popularity...
Avatar will not have that... Avatar came out in 2009 and was not made from a series of books... Avatar 2 was scheduled to come out in 2014 and now may be 2016... Could this delay destroy any momentum Avatar built at the end of 2009 and carried into 2010?? Sure could... Could this delay erase Avatar from a lot of the population's memory?? Sure could... Any legs Avatar was getting in becoming a franchise could be swept out from under it because of the long time between movies with nothing else coming out about Avatar to keep it in the public's eye... We won't know until Avatar 2 comes out to see where it stands as a franchise...
As far as the land in DAK is concerned, no one can call it a success or failure just yet... Doing so is very premature... 1) the land hasn't even been opened yet; 2) no concept art or any kind of specifics have been released detailing what will be in Avatar; 3) no land clearing has happened yet...
Timekeeper
Well-Known Member
I wasn't suggesting that I could remember it either....
They're obviously a bit tricky. It's not like the character's names are in the title, like Peter Pan, Finding Nemo, Tarzan, etc. I understand that there's probably a bit of exaggeration in comments from people that go along the lines of "I'm not gonna visit Pandora" or "I'll continue to skip AK" or "I'll just enjoy the rest of AK," but I do find it very hard to believe that any fan of WDW or of theme parks generally would "ignore" a new land if it opened to the type of acclaim as WWoHP.
There are plenty of people who have never read HP books or seen HP movies (so it doesn't matter whether they were good or bad) who still walk away from Forbidden Journey in awe. Same goes for people who have never picked up a Spider-Man comic book or seen any of those movies. A theme park attraction is more or less stand-alone regardless of whether it was based on a book or movie, or nothing at all.
And the inverse can happen too. Philharmagic is based on nothing but Disney classics and yet many people view the attraction with disappointment in its execution.
A good movie doesn't guarantee a well executed theme park land. And a bad movie doesn't guarantee a badly executed theme park land.
Umm,, it sure does:
See what I bolded??? That isn't an OPINION.. that is stated as a FACT... The Bottom line is.... Avatar WAS a bad movie.. WILL MAKE a bad theme park land... adding Just my two cents is a clever way of trying to portray it as an opinion...
Actually, I think Star Wars could steal some Harry Potter's thunder...
'Mickey Mouse'
New Member
How long will it be delayed for?
I don't think it makes them look out of touch... Honestly, I think it makes them look sort of desperate... I am not putting down the decision, like I said, I don't care one way or the other if Avatar comes to DAK or not (even though I enjoyed the movie and think Pandora would make a great and wonderful themed land)... I think it was a reaction to Potter and not meant to actually be a Potter swatter... I'll tell you why...
There were several rumors going around that Universal was out to get Avatar for its theme parks, especially after the hype and hoopla of Harry Potter... And once Wizarding World opened and proved to be one heck of a success (and put Universal Creative on the map), the rumors grew about Avatar... Lord of the Rings was tossed around too...
Disney sees the wonderful job Universal did with the Potter universe, they see the jump in attendance, they read the internet buzz, they see the merchandise sales, and they see people are making special trips to Orlando just for Wizarding World, Disney reacted... They hear the business talk about Avatar, see it is the highest grossing movie of all time, and say WE NEED THIS BEFORE UNIVERSAL GETS IT... Whether you liked the movie or not, you cannot disagree than Pandora's environment is beautiful and would make one heck of a landscape in a theme park.. So, seeing what Universal Creative did with Potter and fearing a repeat of the success with Avatar, and reading internet forums where Disney fans are praising Universal and trashing Disney, seeing how bad the original Fantasyland plans were received, Disney jumped... Of course, Disney won't ever tell you this is how it happened, they would put a positive spin on it... And of course I am not saying this is how it happened... I'm saying it some of this could have played a part in the decision to get Avatar, never mind the conservation theme fits with DAK's conservation theme...
haveyoumetmark
Well-Known Member
That's all well and fine, but I never said numbers didn't matter. I simply said they weren't everything, especially when you are trying to quantify popularity. Avatar is a unique case too, because its numbers are inflated.
haveyoumetmark
Well-Known Member
double post
haveyoumetmark
Well-Known Member
Right, but it's content of their post... meaning it is their opinion. It's the bottom line... for them. That is a given, especially on a discussion forum. Just because they didn't preface those statements with "I think", doesn't mean its fact. Obviously it's what they think (aka an opinion) since they're the ones who posted it.
Inflated because of what?? Higher cost of a movie ticket?? IMAX?? 3D?? Ok...
The Dark Knight came out in 2008... in IMAX, 3D, and 2D... Worldwide Gross is just over $1 billion dollars...
Avatar came out in 2009... in IMAX, 3D, and 2D... Worldwide Gross is almost $2.8 billion... ($2.78 billion to be exact)
Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows came out in 2011.. in IMAX, 3D and 2D... Worldwide Gross is $1.3 billion...
Domestically Avatar did better than Dark Knight and Deathly Hallows Part 2...
Movie tickets weren't much more expensive in 2009 when Avatar came out.. and were more expensive in 2011 than 2009... So, what exactly inflated Avatar's numbers???? Wasn't IMAX or 3D because the two examples I showed ALSO had IMAX and 3D...
Let me clarify, cause re-reading this, I may not have said this right... If you want to use IMAX and 3D as a basis for inflating the numbers, then you need to say Dark Knight and DH Part 2's numbers are also inflated due to IMAX and 3D... and if you do that, Avatar still tops them...
haveyoumetmark
Well-Known Member
We are mostly in agreement here, I just don't think Avatar is worthy of a theme park land... especially in DAK where all the other lands are timeless. I don't hate the film or anything and, of course, the attraction could potentially be incredible, but it just seems reactive and not right.
ctxak98
Well-Known Member
Your absolutely right! however they just did the change for star tours so I think It will be a while if we ever see anything...and apparently lucas actually might make a star wars theme park? Has anyone ever talked about that on this site?
'Mickey Mouse'
New Member
A Star Wars theme park would actually be interesting. One of the characters to meet could be C-3PO.