Autopia apparently receiving slight changes

[180º]

It seems the only thing we really disagree on is that you've chosen to support (or tolerate) the stating of opinions as fact, while I still believe it's a step in the wrong direction for public communication. We disagree.

Before I go into this response, I first want to thank you for putting up with me and answering my questions. I value this discussion.

So to your point (specifically, the portion I quoted), that's basically it. The only reason I challenged you on it in the first place is because I've been reading the Disneyland Resort forum and for a while now it seems like some posters are being chastised for being offensive, misleading, or delusional for posting pretty harmless statements. From my experience, what you consider "stating opinion as fact" is generally regarded as pretty civil debating practice, not as misleading or as logical fallacy. Read any well-written persuasive essay and the author will steer clear of qualifying his/her opinion with "in my opinion" or "from my point of view," etc. It doesn't mean the author believes their own opinions as quantifiable facts. Why should we assume that posters on these forums, when they do the same thing, are being misleading, uncivil, insulting, or delusional? I don't think they are. @Endor Sightseer, @raven24, can you confirm? Do I have the right read on the situation?

I admit my posts on this matter seem out of the blue, but they are mostly from observing many different threads on this forum for a while.

And as for Star Tours, I don't have a strong opinion on that leaning to either side, so that's outside of the argument I'm making.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Before I go into this response, I first want to thank you for putting up with me and answering my questions. I value this discussion.

So to your point (specifically, the portion I quoted), that's basically it. The only reason I challenged you on it in the first place is because I've been reading the Disneyland Resort forum and for a while now it seems like some posters are being chastised for being offensive, misleading, or delusional for posting pretty harmless statements. From my experience, what you consider "stating opinion as fact" is generally regarded as pretty civil debating practice, not as misleading or as logical fallacy. Read any well-written persuasive essay and the author will steer clear of qualifying his/her opinion with "in my opinion" or "from my point of view," etc. It doesn't mean the author believes their own opinions as quantifiable facts. Why should we assume that posters on these forums, when they do the same thing, are being misleading, uncivil, insulting, or delusional? I don't think they are. @Endor Sightseer, @raven24, can you confirm? Do I have the right read on the situation?

I admit my posts on this matter seem out of the blue, but they are mostly from observing many different threads on this forum for a while.

And as for Star Tours, I don't have a strong opinion on that leaning to either side, so that's outside of the argument I'm making.

You are correct.

I find this comical, actually. All I said was I like Autopia the most of all the Tomorrowland rides, and it spiraled. My intelligence was even insulted. If I were bored enough, I'd go through multiple threads and find/quote multiple opinions with "...in my opinion."

How many of us follow up with "...in my opinion" after every single opinion we state? The answer is most likely zero because I can bet we all know we don't have to say it each and every single time.

 

[NobodyElse]

@NobodyElse I NEVER said my opinion was really a fact. That's ridiculous. Should one have to ask if they're trying to pass a statement as fact? I would think not, it seems obvious. Are we going to have to follow up with "...in my opinion" for everything we say?

One might wonder, If it's so unnecessary, why you would bother to type “In-N-Out's fries are really good, in my opinion.”

I'm clearly in the vocal minority with my line of thinking (here), so we can just call it a pet peeve, and I'll go back to not mentioning if for the foreseeable future.

Back to Autopia.

 

[NobodyElse]

Before I go into this response, I first want to thank you for putting up with me and answering my questions. I value this discussion.

So to your point (specifically, the portion I quoted), that's basically it. The only reason I challenged you on it in the first place is because I've been reading the Disneyland Resort forum and for a while now it seems like some posters are being chastised for being offensive, misleading, or delusional for posting pretty harmless statements. From my experience, what you consider "stating opinion as fact" is generally regarded as pretty civil debating practice, not as misleading or as logical fallacy. Read any well-written persuasive essay and the author will steer clear of qualifying his/her opinion with "in my opinion" or "from my point of view," etc. It doesn't mean the author believes their own opinions as quantifiable facts. Why should we assume that posters on these forums, when they do the same thing, are being misleading, uncivil, insulting, or delusional? I don't think they are. @Endor Sightseer, @raven24, can you confirm? Do I have the right read on the situation?

I admit my posts on this matter seem out of the blue, but they are mostly from observing many different threads on this forum for a while.

And as for Star Tours, I don't have a strong opinion on that leaning to either side, so that's outside of the argument I'm making.

Thanks for your response. I understand your line of thinking, and will accept it as the norm in this forum.

I'll also chock up the original Star Tours quote (that started me down this path) to being hyperbolic, and let it go (while reserving the right do discuss alternate views later).

 

[Californian Elitist]

One might wonder, If it's so unnecessary, why you would bother to type “In-N-Out's fries are really good, in my opinion.”

I'm clearly in the vocal minority with my line of thinking (here), so we can just call it a pet peeve, and I'll go back to not mentioning if for the foreseeable future.

Back to Autopia.

I said it's unnecessary to put it all the time and each time. If you've seen my posts, sometimes I'll put "...in my opinion," sometimes I don't, depending on my laziness.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

It sure isn't.

And for the record, here's a shot of Autopia later in 1956 after all the celebrities and media left in July, 1955. Take in this image of Disneyland Reality circa 1956.

You can see the fumes and smoke wafting through the boarding area. The cars are already chipped and damaged a few months after opening. The backside of the loading area is a car graveyard with vehicles in various states of repair and disrepair. The berm is a dusty and rocky bank with a few small saplings planted.

And best of all is the Cast Members... CM #1 has his sleeves rolled up to show off a tattoo he got in some exotic port during his two year stint in the Navy or Marines. CM #2 behind him in the greasy coveralls is obviously a Marlboro Man. Disneyland USA in real life!

Yes kids, the Disneyland dress code and clean-cut CM look wasn't established until about 1957 to 1958, after the park had been opened awhile and Walt figured out it wasn't going to flop. The first few years of the park's operation was a rag-tag and rather unattractive place to be in many areas of the young park.

That Honda remake for 2016 suddenly looks much better, doesn't it?!?

Awesome!

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I spent today crisscrossing Phoenix on freeways, and while doing so it occurred to me that, aside from the dated combustion engine technology in Tomorrowland, the main reason Autopia fails for me is that it lacks even the most basic details of a modern highway. Where are the overhead directional signs, Lane markers, digital message boards, and lighting? Even if you're a fan of the ride you have to admit that it does not live up to what one expects to experience on a drive on a miniature Disney freeway.

 

[TP2000]

Awesome!

Yeah, isn't it?

The subversive side of me always gets a kick out of these old pictures that show Disneyland wasn't always this perfectly clean utopia that many Disney fans think it was when Walt ran the place. Especially the period 1955-57 had plenty of weird stuff going on with CM's and trash and really bad interior design and clumsy corporate sponsorship. If you read Van France's book about the founding of the "Disney University" training program, that didn't really get started in earnest until 1958.

For the first few years you saw CM's with tattoos and cigarettes and doing all sorts of un-Disney things while they worked in the park. Even in the early 1960's the CM's weren't perfect. I just love that for some perverse reason.

Here's the Tomorrowland Spaceman and Spacegirl in 1962 leaning on the rail, ignoring all the paying customers, and talking to each other about, um... something not related to Tomorrowland.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

''I feel like there's something between us!''

 

[NobodyElse]

I spent today crisscrossing Phoenix on freeways, and while doing so it occurred to me that, aside from the dated combustion engine technology in Tomorrowland, the main reason Autopia fails for me is that it lacks even the most basic details of a modern highway. Where are the overhead directional signs, Lane markers, digital message boards, and lighting? Even if you're a fan of the ride you have to admit that it does not live up to what one expects to experience on a drive on a miniature Disney freeway.

Have you ever seen the Legoland Driving School attraction down in Carlsbad? It actually gives kids an opportunity to do their best to follow the rules of the road. There are directional lanes, signage, and lights, etc. I think it's pretty cool for what it is.

 

[TP2000]

Have you ever seen the Legoland Driving School attraction down in Carlsbad? It actually gives kids an opportunity to do their best to follow the rules of the road. There are directional lanes, signage, and lights, etc. I think it's pretty cool for what it is.

Lego Driving School, Presented by Volvo. That thing is hilarious to watch, at least on my one and only Legoland visit about 10 years ago.

They have a patio nearby where I sat eating lunch watching all these six year old kids drive little electric cars, while a college aged employee stands in the middle with a microphone instructing the kids what to do. Some little kid kept blowing through stop signs and disobeying the CM's instructions, and the CM finally blurted out into his microphone "Hey car #12, what are you, drunk?!?"

I'm sure the Volvo and Lego bosses wouldn't find that outburst funny, but I chuckled.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Have you ever seen the Legoland Driving School attraction down in Carlsbad?

Never been to Legoland, but not surprised that it has a similar attraction.

 

[NobodyElse]

Never been to Legoland, but not surprised that it has a similar attraction.

Hans, it's really only similar in that it's a steerable car ride for kids. You should check some YouTube videos, or even look at the layout with Google Maps. There isn't a track like Autopia. It's a mini multiple-block layout. It's actually educational for some kids. It's unique.

 

[Curious Constance]

I really need to get to Legoland before my Lego loving son grows out of it.

Why must time pass so quickly???

 

[NobodyElse]

Off topic, but another compare and contrast would be DL's old Motorboat Cruise, with Legoland's Skipper School. You follow a path with Skipper School, but you're actually steering the boats, and controlling speed. It's a good experience for the youngsters.

 

[dweezil78]

I really need to get to Legoland before my Lego loving son grows out of it.

Why must time pass so quickly???

If you're a frequent Disneyland visitor, be prepared to be very underwhelmed!!! It's mostly lightly themed off-the-shelf carnival rides with some exceptions and the park, overall, is not very well maintained. The Jungle Cruise'ish boat ride, for example, was very dirty looking with props and "animatronics" that looked like they've never once been touched by human hand. The food was pretty ok though, I've gotta say!

 

[Curious Constance]

If you're a frequent Disneyland visitor, be prepared to be very underwhelmed!!! It's mostly lightly themed off-the-shelf carnival rides with some exceptions and the park, overall, is not very well maintained. The Jungle Cruise'ish boat ride, for example, was very dirty looking with props and "animatronics" that looked like they've never once been touched by human hand. The food was pretty ok though, I've gotta say!

I've researched the park in the past and was surprised at how crappy it seemed. But he still wants to go see it. He wants to stay in the Legoland Hotel really bad and go to the water park. Legoland Hotel is about the same price as a Disney hotel

 

[NobodyElse]

I've researched the park in the past and was surprised at how crappy it seemed. But he still wants to go see it. He wants to stay in the Legoland Hotel really bad and go to the water park. Legoland Hotel is about the same price as a Disney hotel

Here's my off-topic and unsolicited advice. Bear in mind that I haven't been to Legoland for many years. (The Sea Life aquarium was there, but not the water park nor the hotel.) Even then, as mentioned, several attractions were in need of refurbishment. Also note that I've never paid full admission - I've always used a coupon or special offer. That said, if your child loves Legos, and you can work it into a SoCal trip, I'd take him. I'll throw in a few random thoughts that you can take or leave.

• Themes tend to be divided primarily between two concepts. There are figures, props, etc created out of actual legos. There are other things like ride vehicles themed to look like giant legos (sort of making you the mini-figure).
• They certainly have light-weight cycle rides with operation and theming similar to Dumbo or the Teacups.
• They also have many rides that I haven't seen in other parks. (The already-mentioned cars and boats, an elevated ride where you pedal to trigger the motion, a little tower ride where you pull on a rope to raise yourself up, a spinner/water ride, etc.) Also a weird KUKA arm ride where you can select the intensity with which you are thrown around.
• There are plenty of places where your kid can take a break and build things, including their little robotic things.
• If he's missing any pieces, there's a shop where you can select individual parts, and pay by weight like at a salad bar.
• Assuming you use discounted admission, "Mini Land" is almost worth the price alone. There are some really impressive displays. A few sections rotate new projects occasionally. There's also a master builders model shop, with a window on one wall for viewing. I think your son would be impressed.
• It's clearly not a place intended for teen-agers, but younger and older can appreciate its charm.
• If you'll have a car, there are plenty of more reasonably priced hotels not far away.

I hope some of this helps.

 

[dweezil78]

If you'll have a car, there are plenty of more reasonably priced hotels not far away.

I went during a long weekend getaway to the Omni La Costa resort which was maybe 10 minutes away and AWESOME. Very family friendly, but also classy/relaxing at the same time. Can't say enough good things about it. I was able to find discounted tickets as well -- do not pay full price!!

https://www.omnihotels.com/hotels/san-diego-la-costa

 

[NobodyElse]

I went during a long weekend getaway to the Omni La Costa resort which was maybe 10 minutes away and AWESOME. Very family friendly, but also classy/relaxing at the same time. Can't say enough good things about it. I was able to find discounted tickets as well -- do not pay full price!!

https://www.omnihotels.com/hotels/san-diego-la-costa

I was thinking more along the lines of the hotels towards the coast, but if one was willing to pay Legoland Hotel prices, You're correct. It looks like you could stay at La Costa or even Aviara for less. Yikes!